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ARE CLASSIC RPGS STILL A VIABLE OPTION ?
Posts
Lezales
100
Lezales
View playlists
CloseHere I have a small question I've been wondering.
I really like the old-school feeling of some classic games like Final Fantasy 4, Final Fantasy 5 and such. It seems that as it's really simple to do such games (pretty easy battle system, not that hard to reproduce graphics) people are moving away from that to stay original or fresh. I can understand that. People includes, either by scrips or evening, some fancy systems, developped battle systems. And I think that's great !
But I'm wondering... are classic japanese RPGs still a good option to reach the public ? You know the classic sideview battle system with the classic spells, nothing too fancy. As those games are more easily technically speaking it leaves more time to the creator for the story and length of the game. I'm sure some people like that too. But will that kind of game be overlooked at first sight ? Will people get bored of it because they played that battle system a million times ?
I really like the old-school feeling of some classic games like Final Fantasy 4, Final Fantasy 5 and such. It seems that as it's really simple to do such games (pretty easy battle system, not that hard to reproduce graphics) people are moving away from that to stay original or fresh. I can understand that. People includes, either by scrips or evening, some fancy systems, developped battle systems. And I think that's great !
But I'm wondering... are classic japanese RPGs still a good option to reach the public ? You know the classic sideview battle system with the classic spells, nothing too fancy. As those games are more easily technically speaking it leaves more time to the creator for the story and length of the game. I'm sure some people like that too. But will that kind of game be overlooked at first sight ? Will people get bored of it because they played that battle system a million times ?
Despain
415
the problem with a lot of those games is that they are boring. it's sad but true. they require a lot of reading, a lot of menu-navigating, and a hell of a lot of grinding.
in today's world, that kind of game isn't as attractive as it would have been twenty years ago when games and consoles very limited.
it's possible to make those kinds of games and make them very enjoyable—but you need to trim the fat. if people get bored, they'll stop playing and go play some garbage like angry birds. because it's that much more approachable.
it's not the battle system, but how it's used. and most improtantly: a game has to be FUN.
in today's world, that kind of game isn't as attractive as it would have been twenty years ago when games and consoles very limited.
it's possible to make those kinds of games and make them very enjoyable—but you need to trim the fat. if people get bored, they'll stop playing and go play some garbage like angry birds. because it's that much more approachable.
it's not the battle system, but how it's used. and most improtantly: a game has to be FUN.
Lezales
100
I understand that. And that's exactly what I meant.
The first time I sat in front of a Final Fantasy the battle system was exciting. But now, so many games did it it's only there for being there I don't take any enjoyment from it. So is a good story, good dialogue and enjoyable music enough to keep the players interested ?
Note: I'm mostly talking about an amateur public, not professional videogames. Although we can enlarge the discussion to both if you want.
The first time I sat in front of a Final Fantasy the battle system was exciting. But now, so many games did it it's only there for being there I don't take any enjoyment from it. So is a good story, good dialogue and enjoyable music enough to keep the players interested ?
Note: I'm mostly talking about an amateur public, not professional videogames. Although we can enlarge the discussion to both if you want.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I'm pretty sure no one around here likes RPGs or thinks making them is a good idea.
Lezales
100
author=LockeZ
I'm pretty sure no one around here likes RPGs or thinks making them is a good idea.
I'm pretty sure that post was very useful to this post.
I think what is a classic RPG is in the eyes of the beholder.
To me, THIS is a classic RPG, and those games you mentioned are a relatively modern and bizarre Japanese perversion of it.
To me, THIS is a classic RPG, and those games you mentioned are a relatively modern and bizarre Japanese perversion of it.
DespainAnd then on the other hand we have genres like visual novels (nothing but reading!) and MMOs (nothing but grinding!). Classic RPGs as defined by the OP are far from dead, the Japanese market in particular still loves them.
the problem with a lot of those games is that they are boring. it's sad but true. they require a lot of reading, a lot of menu-navigating, and a hell of a lot of grinding.
LezalesPersonally? Yes, give me a captivating story, lovable and memorable characters, and great music and you'll very likely keep me hooked to the end.
So is a good story, good dialogue and enjoyable music enough to keep the players interested?
LockeZ(*´Д｀)
I'm pretty sure no one around here likes RPGs or thinks making them is a good idea.
Darken
3952
o boy tabletop wizard appears to give these pearl harbor bomber lovers a quick lesson on what 'role playing' actually means, heh... punks.
In a serious tone: if you look at the hero's realm game profile you'd probably get an idea of how classic JAPANESE CONSOLE LIGHT/maxmcgee rpgs are received here. Though nowadays HR has conquered its own audience as that "biggest/bestest DQ3/FF5 clone done in rpgmaker" (this title will always be held). In the end you should just make whatever you want, and uh at least add some personal aspects to it to make it more original. Like have a reason why someone would play your game over Dragon Quest # or something.
Me personally I cannot stand the "look how oldschool I am!!" vibes a lot of retro RPGs do nowadays. I think there's this one indie rpg called cthulu saves the world or w/e where it pulls every gaming reference from the book to pander to whoever remembered what an NES was. I mean yeah you'll probably get an audience if you pull the right strings but uh idk, a lot of oldschool RPGs seem to be made by atari ghosts rather than human beings who use their own imagination.
In a serious tone: if you look at the hero's realm game profile you'd probably get an idea of how classic JAPANESE CONSOLE LIGHT/maxmcgee rpgs are received here. Though nowadays HR has conquered its own audience as that "biggest/bestest DQ3/FF5 clone done in rpgmaker" (this title will always be held). In the end you should just make whatever you want, and uh at least add some personal aspects to it to make it more original. Like have a reason why someone would play your game over Dragon Quest # or something.
Me personally I cannot stand the "look how oldschool I am!!" vibes a lot of retro RPGs do nowadays. I think there's this one indie rpg called cthulu saves the world or w/e where it pulls every gaming reference from the book to pander to whoever remembered what an NES was. I mean yeah you'll probably get an audience if you pull the right strings but uh idk, a lot of oldschool RPGs seem to be made by atari ghosts rather than human beings who use their own imagination.
Shinan
4314
There is an audience for those things. Now I am not that audience so I don't actually know what gets the audience that likes these kinds of things wet.
Of course it's all about finding that audience. Sometimes you'd think that a "classic rpg" would be somewhat favourably received and wanted in a community that basically centers around people making nothing but "classic rpgs".
But I do not think that the target audience for these games can be found in rpgmaking community. Because the rpgmaking community is far to familiar with each and every trope in the book and they've (possibly) played and (possibly) even made hundreds of these "classic rpgs".
Instead they (we) tend to focus our efforts completely on subverting tropes and making gameplay "interesting".
However. As certain somewhat commercially available classic rpg games can say. there are a couple of commercially available rpgmaker games out there. That have been somewhat favourably reviewed I think. Most of them are shunned as "holy shit that's bad. RTP lol" by the community. But I think there is a somewhat existing group of players who would like to play these classic rpgs done over and over again.
How you reach them that's another matter.
But I am not this target audience. I think it is best exemplified by this:
A great story, enjoyable music and cool characters is never enough for me to sit through a game.
Of course it's all about finding that audience. Sometimes you'd think that a "classic rpg" would be somewhat favourably received and wanted in a community that basically centers around people making nothing but "classic rpgs".
But I do not think that the target audience for these games can be found in rpgmaking community. Because the rpgmaking community is far to familiar with each and every trope in the book and they've (possibly) played and (possibly) even made hundreds of these "classic rpgs".
Instead they (we) tend to focus our efforts completely on subverting tropes and making gameplay "interesting".
However. As certain somewhat commercially available classic rpg games can say. there are a couple of commercially available rpgmaker games out there. That have been somewhat favourably reviewed I think. Most of them are shunned as "holy shit that's bad. RTP lol" by the community. But I think there is a somewhat existing group of players who would like to play these classic rpgs done over and over again.
How you reach them that's another matter.
But I am not this target audience. I think it is best exemplified by this:
author=KingArthurLezalesPersonally? Yes, give me a captivating story, lovable and memorable characters, and great music and you'll very likely keep me hooked to the end.
So is a good story, good dialogue and enjoyable music enough to keep the players interested?
A great story, enjoyable music and cool characters is never enough for me to sit through a game.
author=Shinanauthor=KingArthurLezalesPersonally? Yes, give me a captivating story, lovable and memorable characters, and great music and you'll very likely keep me hooked to the end.
So is a good story, good dialogue and enjoyable music enough to keep the players interested?
A great story, enjoyable music and cool characters is never enough for me to sit through a game.
It's usually enough for me unless it's super grindy I wanted to kill the developer.
Ditto with Ness. If a game's got a great story, memorable characters and music (and some side questage!) I'm willing to forgive it for using an older design for battles. A twist in battles would be nice, but as long as I'm not getting attacked every step and it's fairly balanced, I'll be hooked.
Of course the Classic RPG is still viable, but it takes a lot more effort to pull off now.
The problem as I see it is that the ‘Classic RPG” has been around for so long that the older gamers who would remember such games have become cynical and jaded, and the younger gamers usually don’t have the patience for such games and will only play for like five minutes before realising the game doesn’t have any explosions and go off to play Modern Warfare.
My point is while it can still work it would take a lot of effort to stand out nowadays.
The problem as I see it is that the ‘Classic RPG” has been around for so long that the older gamers who would remember such games have become cynical and jaded, and the younger gamers usually don’t have the patience for such games and will only play for like five minutes before realising the game doesn’t have any explosions and go off to play Modern Warfare.
My point is while it can still work it would take a lot of effort to stand out nowadays.
"If it's got a great story, memorable characters and good music."
I immediately flip the fuck out because gameplay wasn't mentioned.
I immediately flip the fuck out because gameplay wasn't mentioned.
Despain
the problem with a lot of those games is that they are boring. it's sad but true. they require a lot of reading, a lot of menu-navigating, and a hell of a lot of grinding.
in today's world, that kind of game isn't as attractive as it would have been twenty years ago when games and consoles very limited.
it's possible to make those kinds of games and make them very enjoyable—but you need to trim the fat. if people get bored, they'll stop playing and go play some garbage like angry birds. because it's that much more approachable.
it's not the battle system, but how it's used. and most improtantly: a game has to be FUN.
Despain stop stealing all my words
Go take a look at Cthulu Saves the World - it's essentially a SNES (or NES, even) RPG that was released for a dollar on XBLA and Steam and has become very popular. It's clever, the theme is funny, the battles are quick and fun with some cool twists, and overall it's very nostalgic.
It's very possible to release a classic RPG in this day and age. Graphics don't matter as much as they used to - you don't need full 3D or even amazing 2D, you just need to give them due care and thought so they make sense and fit your game. Some of the gameplay design from that era has stood the test of time and some hasn't, and you should study it, pick apart those systems and use them as you will.
And @Nightowl - RPGs generally have the additional responsibility of having a good story, world, characters, or all three. But you're right, a game should have a strong focus on solid gameplay, and if gameplay is playing second hat to something else, the author is probably better off writing a novel or filming an amateur film.
It's very possible to release a classic RPG in this day and age. Graphics don't matter as much as they used to - you don't need full 3D or even amazing 2D, you just need to give them due care and thought so they make sense and fit your game. Some of the gameplay design from that era has stood the test of time and some hasn't, and you should study it, pick apart those systems and use them as you will.
And @Nightowl - RPGs generally have the additional responsibility of having a good story, world, characters, or all three. But you're right, a game should have a strong focus on solid gameplay, and if gameplay is playing second hat to something else, the author is probably better off writing a novel or filming an amateur film.
Feldschlacht IV
sick sad world when reading is considered boring
I read like 40 books a semester. I still don't think excessive reading belongs in games (except VNs, which... aren't exactly full-on games).
Excessive reading is akin to today's pre-rendered cutscenes. It worked in that medium, why not try it in games? But people aren't playing games because they secretly want to watch movies, they're playing to play. Same goes for books, if I want to read novelletes I'll go find a book.
I mean, it's not like you have to make a textless game but woe be to those who thinks a game is nothing without word vomit :P
That being said I've played some textless RPGs and they are fantastic.
I mean, it's not like you have to make a textless game but woe be to those who thinks a game is nothing without word vomit :P
That being said I've played some textless RPGs and they are fantastic.
Lezales
100
author=Nightowl
"If it's got a great story, memorable characters and good music."
I immediately flip the fuck out because gameplay wasn't mentioned.
Yeah well that was my question. Gameplay being pretty much the stuff from the classic japanese RPGs. Exploration through maps, turn by turn or ATB battle system, maybe a few options and diversity in characters to spice the things up. I'm just wondering how far a game can get in the RPG category with the minimum package for gameplay and maximum place for the rest.
