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RM20XX-CRACKING THE CODE
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Feldschlacht IV
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CloseSome of you may be familiar with WC's RPG Maker 20XX, download found here, is WolfCoder's effort to replace the RM2K3 executable with something that uh actually works a lot better. Less bugs, more effective battle system, and the possibility of neat features to be worked in. This engine is especially perfect for people like me, who have games in RM2K3 they still want to bring out to day without starting over in a new maker, with a lot less bugs and cooler features.
A lot of you know that WC is since left RMN, but since the engine is still listed here in RMN, and of course a good engine shouldn't go to waste (WC is still working on this!), although the engine is still under development, it's still viable to play around with certain features, and some entire games work with it! I wanted to make this topic to;
-Discuss and help each other out with understanding and unraveling the engine and how to use it.
-Coordinate efforts to identify and report bugs, and send them to WC to fix.
-Bounce around ideas and discussion on what features are possible and helping each other out.
Basically if you use RM2K3 there's no reason not to at least check it out and download it and give it a shot. If you come across a bug or something is acting funny, post in this topic. Make a copy of your game, test the program in that, and list out bugs here.
Also, drop WC a line! (wolfcoder@dreamincode.net.) Even if it's just a sentence, support is always appreciated.
A lot of you know that WC is since left RMN, but since the engine is still listed here in RMN, and of course a good engine shouldn't go to waste (WC is still working on this!), although the engine is still under development, it's still viable to play around with certain features, and some entire games work with it! I wanted to make this topic to;
-Discuss and help each other out with understanding and unraveling the engine and how to use it.
-Coordinate efforts to identify and report bugs, and send them to WC to fix.
-Bounce around ideas and discussion on what features are possible and helping each other out.
Basically if you use RM2K3 there's no reason not to at least check it out and download it and give it a shot. If you come across a bug or something is acting funny, post in this topic. Make a copy of your game, test the program in that, and list out bugs here.
Also, drop WC a line! (wolfcoder@dreamincode.net.) Even if it's just a sentence, support is always appreciated.
This topic seems unnecessary in light of this page, but I guess maybe not if anyone was unaware of that page.
Anyway, the fact that RMN supports RM20xx just the same as an official "big boy" engine is pretty cool!
Anyway, the fact that RMN supports RM20xx just the same as an official "big boy" engine is pretty cool!
I'm aware of that page, I linked to it! But yeah, the engine page is far less visible to both regular community goers and curious bypassers. While that would be idea, using the forum is a much better way to get the exposure for the type of discussion I want to have.
TheNecromancer
3160
author=Max McGee
What is actually involved in testing RPG Maker 20xx?
By using a simple feature, like Move Event commands, and testing it out in game. You might find that the Phasing Mode feature doesn't work for events that are the same layer(as a random possible bug example).
Some of the things I noticed in past testing was that if you create an event and use a tile from the upper layer of the chipset, the passability settings are ignored.
So that's what you have to do, I'd start simple. Don't code a whole CMS and then test it out. Create events that use the basic commands and see if you can find something that doesn't do what it's supposed to.
If I have my own game, can I just plug in the executable and see if 20xx works? Or does it not work like that?
TheNecromancer
3160
author=Max McGee
If I have my own game, can I just plug in the executable and see if 20xx works? Or does it not work like that?
Yep, that can work. To my knowledge 20xx uses a map0000.lmu and your project won't have that so it'll crash when you run it. But I think you can get around this by renaming a dummy map to map0000.
I think you still have to follow the instructions in the .pdf file? It's been a while since I tried this.
author=Max McGee
If I have my own game, can I just plug in the executable and see if 20xx works? Or does it not work like that?
It should. My main issue is that it doesn't quite work with a lot of edits to the executable, a fresh copy of RM2K3 is preferred. Has anyone done some testing with this?
Serious question, isn't this pretty much vaporware at this point or am I missing something? I haven't seen any updates on it at any site in a long time, but since you are in contact with WolfCoder maybe you are in the know
No, like I said, he's still working on it. I talk to WC every once in a while, and due to both the nature of the beast (RM20XX being mostly a user based program) and how WC seems to operate, the frequency of updates seem to be dependent on interest shown. It's still being worked on either way, but it's been behind the shadows as of late in terms of reported updates.
But no, it's not vaporware; the DL link to the newest version on its gamepage is still being regularly updated, the last update was Dec 23. But you guys have to express interest to get it to its fullest.
But no, it's not vaporware; the DL link to the newest version on its gamepage is still being regularly updated, the last update was Dec 23. But you guys have to express interest to get it to its fullest.
TheNecromancer
3160
I'm interested in this, but right now I'm focused on finishing my game. So when I put time aside for RPGmaker it's my project that gets the attention.
Testing the engine is a bit tedious(to me). To really do a thorough job I would make pointless maps with pointless events that test each command in every way I can think of. I wouldn't test the engine by making a game with it, that seems like a waste of time. You'd spend time making something coherent but you only really test a few things in that time. That's how I would tackle it. I'm not saying it's impossible to make a game while testing and to others that could be more of a motivator.
Also, there's no real central place to find out what is supposed to work, what isn't implmented, what has already been tested/bugs found, etc. So most(or god forbid, all) of the things I find could already be known issues. I haven't been faithfully following the gamepage(while it was active) and I have no interest in reading every blog and all comments to find any of what I just mentioned. I shouldn't have to. Since the gamepage is rarely updated, that put it out of the spotlight too. It would be nice to have some kind of checklist created so I know what works 100% so I don't waste my time testing it. We could even form a group and assign specific commands for members to test. To prevent overlap of effort. I don't have much experience with battle commands, so naturally my testing wouldn't involve much of that anyways. I don't think it's reasonable to expect a single person to test every aspect of the game. Not unless I'm getting paid.
Since your the unofficial community motivator for this project, maybe you could spearhead a movement to gather all testing information so that testing becomes a more calculated effort instead of an unorganized free-for-all. Ask WC to add you as a dev on the gamepage so you can use blogs to keep track of all this, testers can subscribe and they will get notices as new info rolls in. So far there's been an article and forum topics, both of which aren't attached to the gamepage where all discussion should be. A link to the gamepage in the OP isn't the same thing. Looking back, it wasn't a good idea to expect this to be done right with no real guidance.
Like I said, I haven't been following everything closely so most of this could be completely wrong.
Testing the engine is a bit tedious(to me). To really do a thorough job I would make pointless maps with pointless events that test each command in every way I can think of. I wouldn't test the engine by making a game with it, that seems like a waste of time. You'd spend time making something coherent but you only really test a few things in that time. That's how I would tackle it. I'm not saying it's impossible to make a game while testing and to others that could be more of a motivator.
Also, there's no real central place to find out what is supposed to work, what isn't implmented, what has already been tested/bugs found, etc. So most(or god forbid, all) of the things I find could already be known issues. I haven't been faithfully following the gamepage(while it was active) and I have no interest in reading every blog and all comments to find any of what I just mentioned. I shouldn't have to. Since the gamepage is rarely updated, that put it out of the spotlight too. It would be nice to have some kind of checklist created so I know what works 100% so I don't waste my time testing it. We could even form a group and assign specific commands for members to test. To prevent overlap of effort. I don't have much experience with battle commands, so naturally my testing wouldn't involve much of that anyways. I don't think it's reasonable to expect a single person to test every aspect of the game. Not unless I'm getting paid.
Since your the unofficial community motivator for this project, maybe you could spearhead a movement to gather all testing information so that testing becomes a more calculated effort instead of an unorganized free-for-all. Ask WC to add you as a dev on the gamepage so you can use blogs to keep track of all this, testers can subscribe and they will get notices as new info rolls in. So far there's been an article and forum topics, both of which aren't attached to the gamepage where all discussion should be. A link to the gamepage in the OP isn't the same thing. Looking back, it wasn't a good idea to expect this to be done right with no real guidance.
Like I said, I haven't been following everything closely so most of this could be completely wrong.
I do not normally spill the beans on email exchanges I have with folks, but I emailed WC I feel that you guys definitely need to read
The flame still burns, but if people really are waiting for this, you have to get involved, at least a little bit. I've been added as a dev to the gamepage, so hopefully I'll be able to get things properly moving as best I can.
author=WC
I like how people act like there's this magic barrier in front of my E-Mail address. If they really gave two shits, they'd at least write me letters full of questions, reports, etc... ...And someone really does care- because they did just that! I've gotten this huge pile of maps and a short list of bugs made for me to fix. I've already gotten halfway through it. You can thank SGCN for spending a little time to at least do something.
There's no miracles though, development will be dead slow for about a month and a half, and I'm on winter break so even development on Amethyst Wolf will be slow. I will, however, take lists of bug reports and suggestions and organize them. The battle system will not progress until the rest of the commands, menus, etc. all work just fine. Although even my personal grievance was with the poorly done default battle system, you're going to have to understand 95% of the audience is waiting on it and doing nothing. Instead, I've been adding extra commands that make writing RPG systems much easier. Making a new RPG should be trivial with 20XX, the challenge is getting the old 2003 games to work.
I added you as a developer, so feel free to add both log updates and screenshots as you see fit. Add thousands of screenshots you thought were pretty while playing various random games. Tons of people already subscribed to me on YouTube. Video updates will be scarce, but they will be there for sure- I need something I can demo to people.
I must have forgotten to write it in the manual, the F5 through F12 do things and one of those keys does a screenshot, one toggles the FPS and stuff display, one does save-anywhere, and one opens Windows Explorer to the saves and screenshot folder for you (so you don't have to find it). One used to fast forward like an emulator, but the entire engine goes insanely unstable and often breaks the game- this isn't an emulator. I might just do frame redundancy. I'll write the keys down later when I have them all working.
The flame still burns, but if people really are waiting for this, you have to get involved, at least a little bit. I've been added as a dev to the gamepage, so hopefully I'll be able to get things properly moving as best I can.
SGCN
564
Yep, still interested in this.
That's exactly what I did. It's more efficient just making a brand new project and testing every implemented command. I feel like I've done my part and exhausted every working command possible for the current version of 20xx, so I think I'll wait for the next big update before testing again.
This was my main concern, but now that Feldschlacht is a developer, perhaps he can fill us in on the latest bug fixes and updates.
author=Link_2112
To really do a thorough job I would make pointless maps with pointless events that test each command in every way I can think of. I wouldn't test the engine by making a game with it, that seems like a waste of time.
That's exactly what I did. It's more efficient just making a brand new project and testing every implemented command. I feel like I've done my part and exhausted every working command possible for the current version of 20xx, so I think I'll wait for the next big update before testing again.
author=Link_2112
Also, there's no real central place to find out what is supposed to work, what isn't implmented, what has already been tested/bugs found, etc.
This was my main concern, but now that Feldschlacht is a developer, perhaps he can fill us in on the latest bug fixes and updates.
TheNecromancer
3160
I can only speak for myself; while I like what this is and what it means for future 2k3 games it's not a top priority. It's kind of like the discussion about changing engines. When your in the middle of a years-long project you don't really want to spend time with something new and start from scratch. If I had nothing else to work on in 2k3, I'd be all over this every day. Plus I have a tendency to just plain forget to do things(like submit the small amount of testing I did way back when).
WC isn't exactly warm and friendly, either. It seems to me that when someone would speak up the response was often dry sarcasm and plain technical answers. I don't recall many thank you's or spoken appreciation for our participation. It's not exactly a bad thing as that is just their personality(I guess), but at least on a subconscious level that diminished my willingness to be a part of this a little. What's that old saying? "You'll catch more flies with honey" I think this project would do better with a friendly motivator to make us feel good about helping out *looking at you, Feld*
I'm not trying to lay blame here. I take full responsibility for my lack of effort.
There's no sense discussing any further my will to participate. It exists but it's not very high right now. However, I do think that this topic should die and be resurrected on the gamepage. Is it really a mystery that enthusiasm for this went way down after the gamepage stopped getting updates? I only follow RMN. I'm not interested in following a youtube channel, an IRC channel, or some other website. I also have a short attention span, if I'm not reminded of this constantly it will be pushed out of my mind and lost forever.
So let's just start a new movement and shove these updates down the throats of the 75 subscribers. Oh wait *subscribes* 76 :3
That's my main concern, right there. If one person does a super thorough job, what else can I add? I think seeing exactly what that person did would help. That way I can look at their results, see what they already found, and try to think up situations that they didn't test.
WC isn't exactly warm and friendly, either. It seems to me that when someone would speak up the response was often dry sarcasm and plain technical answers. I don't recall many thank you's or spoken appreciation for our participation. It's not exactly a bad thing as that is just their personality(I guess), but at least on a subconscious level that diminished my willingness to be a part of this a little. What's that old saying? "You'll catch more flies with honey" I think this project would do better with a friendly motivator to make us feel good about helping out *looking at you, Feld*
I'm not trying to lay blame here. I take full responsibility for my lack of effort.
There's no sense discussing any further my will to participate. It exists but it's not very high right now. However, I do think that this topic should die and be resurrected on the gamepage. Is it really a mystery that enthusiasm for this went way down after the gamepage stopped getting updates? I only follow RMN. I'm not interested in following a youtube channel, an IRC channel, or some other website. I also have a short attention span, if I'm not reminded of this constantly it will be pushed out of my mind and lost forever.
So let's just start a new movement and shove these updates down the throats of the 75 subscribers. Oh wait *subscribes* 76 :3
author=SGCN
That's exactly what I did. It's more efficient just making a brand new project and testing every implemented command. I feel like I've done my part and exhausted every working command possible for the current version of 20xx, so I think I'll wait for the next big update before testing again.
That's my main concern, right there. If one person does a super thorough job, what else can I add? I think seeing exactly what that person did would help. That way I can look at their results, see what they already found, and try to think up situations that they didn't test.
You gotta think of it like this, though;
This is an investment. Unlike having to learn another engine entirely and import your project and all of that, RM20XX is touting something entirely different; if you do nothing else in terms of modifications and extra stuff, the final project promises to at least fix a whole ton of bugs with the original program and make the battle system that much better.
I know the finished project and what it can do is kinda vague to a lot of people, but if more people knew how many bugs this can fix and what this can do, it's not like 'something new', it's more like 'fixing the old', but large scale.
I agree, but try to look at the end result here; a finished project. WC is not the warmest individual but, warm or no, WC's putting a lot of work into something cool. I will try to work as an intermediate.
This however, is laziness. :) While no one is obligated to do anything, it's not like the be all end of cool and game making begins and ends with RMN. If something sounds great, I'll follow it's progress no matter where it's at. I am very bummed that WC has left RMN, but I honestly think this project is bigger than just what website is where and whatnot.
Keep in mind that at the end of the day, this isn't so much for WolfCoder as it is for you. This ain't no act of charity; I for one am absolutely pumped about the possibility of my project and it's gameplay rising above the buggy limitations of the original engine, and keeping the familarity of something I'm used to. I will try to get this interest rekindled on the gamepage however since I'm a dev now.
author=Link
It's kind of like the discussion about changing engines. When your in the middle of a years-long project you don't really want to spend time with something new and start from scratch. If I had nothing else to work on in 2k3, I'd be all over this every day.
This is an investment. Unlike having to learn another engine entirely and import your project and all of that, RM20XX is touting something entirely different; if you do nothing else in terms of modifications and extra stuff, the final project promises to at least fix a whole ton of bugs with the original program and make the battle system that much better.
I know the finished project and what it can do is kinda vague to a lot of people, but if more people knew how many bugs this can fix and what this can do, it's not like 'something new', it's more like 'fixing the old', but large scale.
author=Link
WC isn't exactly warm and friendly, either. It seems to me that when someone would speak up the response was often dry sarcasm and plain technical answers. I don't recall many thank you's or spoken appreciation for our participation. It's not exactly a bad thing as that is just their personality(I guess), but at least on a subconscious level that diminished my willingness to be a part of this a little. What's that old saying? "You'll catch more flies with honey" I think this project would do better with a friendly motivator to make us feel good about helping out *looking at you, Feld*
I agree, but try to look at the end result here; a finished project. WC is not the warmest individual but, warm or no, WC's putting a lot of work into something cool. I will try to work as an intermediate.
author=Link
Is it really a mystery that enthusiasm for this went way down after the gamepage stopped getting updates? I only follow RMN. I'm not interested in following a youtube channel, an IRC channel, or some other website. I also have a short attention span, if I'm not reminded of this constantly it will be pushed out of my mind and lost forever.
This however, is laziness. :) While no one is obligated to do anything, it's not like the be all end of cool and game making begins and ends with RMN. If something sounds great, I'll follow it's progress no matter where it's at. I am very bummed that WC has left RMN, but I honestly think this project is bigger than just what website is where and whatnot.
Keep in mind that at the end of the day, this isn't so much for WolfCoder as it is for you. This ain't no act of charity; I for one am absolutely pumped about the possibility of my project and it's gameplay rising above the buggy limitations of the original engine, and keeping the familarity of something I'm used to. I will try to get this interest rekindled on the gamepage however since I'm a dev now.
SGCN
564
author=Link_2112
That's my main concern, right there. If one person does a super thorough job, what else can I add? I think seeing exactly what that person did would help. That way I can look at their results, see what they already found, and try to think up situations that they didn't test.
http://rpgmaker.net/engines/rm20xx/bulletins/5/?post=311685#post311685
I posted my findings a while back on the 20xx engine page along with my test project testing all implemented commands. I've even set up events with commands that have not been implemented yet for future testing. If you guys are feeling lazy you can download my test project and build on from there.
TheNecromancer
3160
author=SGCN
http://rpgmaker.net/engines/rm20xx/bulletins/5/?post=311685#post311685
I posted my findings a while back on the 20xx engine page along with my test project testing all implemented commands. I've even set up events with commands that have not been implemented yet for future testing. If you guys are feeling lazy you can download my test project and build on from there.
Oh, cool. Thanks.
@Feld - Yeah, I agree that it is kinda lazy to not follow it. It's certainly not hard. If I was as pumped as you are I would. I'm not really big on the whole internet thing, though. Logging into all kinds of sites and spending a lot of time reading up on things. I used to be more into that but I made a huge shift in my life to OFFLINE. RMN and Hotmail are the only sites I go to on the internet(seriously) and I like it that way :P The only reason I stayed with RMN is cause this is where my games live, not cause it's the epitome of gaming haha
And I have huge respect for WC and the effort he puts in. I really appreciate what he's doing(yeah, I'm going with he) and that's why you'll always hear my voice when it comes to talking about this and helping others get into it.
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