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GET CRAFTING!
Max McGee- 12/18/2011 07:56 PM
- 23396 views
The Journeyman Demo is LIVE. Please read the (rather extensive) release notes or the readme included in the download. THE IMPORTANT PART IS TO PUT THE FOLDER CALLED GRAPHICS INTO THE FOLDER THAT IS CALLED JOURNEYMAN DEMO.
You might notice that my awesome art has arrived courtesy of the amazing AprilsChild. Treat these inks as "concept art"--full color art is coming soon.
This release contains around 30% of the final game. This means that it has 3/10 locations, one out of three game types (the smallest of the three) and 30% of the components, items, weapons, armor that the final game will have. It does, however, contain closer to 80% of the FEATURES & SYSTEMS the final game will have, and in that regard acts as a kind of "tech demo". Of course, those FEATURES & SYSTEMS will probably change a lot between now and final release.
The release is at a slightly awkward place regarding my bug-fixing crusade. There are still some known glitches in there that I really want to resolve between now and the final release...which will be a long journey, so I'll have plenty of time.
I plan on releasing between 0 and 1 additional demos of this game before the final build, which makes for 1-2 more major releases of this project TOTAL. Both of them will hopefully be even more polished than this one, which I've been fussing over a lot lately. I don't want to fall into the "storm of demos" mindset where every time I manage to add another hour of gameplay I upload another demo. While I'm sure there will be numerous (attempted) bug-fixing patches for every major release, I'm trying to keep the number of content releases small.
The short version is: from here on out I want to be laser-focused on completing the project.
Lastly, I'm sure it goes without saying, but I put a lot of work into this one. It would be great to get a lot of downloads and a lot of (non-malicious) feedback. I certainly want to improve the project, I just hope that none of the feedback I get is so negative it prevents more downloads. I really, really want people to SEE this one. I'm rather quite proud of it.
-MM(DTO) Out
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CloseReadme - "Hi and welcome to the wonderful world of Journeyman! I am not going to bother describing the game in-depth since you already have it and that must mean you know at least the basics about it." Actually, that's exactly what the readme should cover. Then you give a bunch of tips that aren't going to be relevent without some playtime ("Don't leave suchandsuch town without armor," which I assume is the starting town, the name of which wasn't said during my gametime).
Title screen - I love the idea, the images used in it, and the layout, but it's way too lo-res and grainy for me.
"Loading" screen with tips - That was annoying. The text goes by juuuust a little bit too quickly, and you should probably skip them altogether unless it's ONE random hint before the game "loads" each time - that'd be a much cuter touch than having to sit through "loading" that the game itself admits is fake.
Intro credits - Are you seriously making me sit through a credit reel while the screen pans over a plain old boring town? are you serious? oh good the credits stopped... oh wait yay more sloooow map panning.
"AUTO EQUIP" - No point in having this on the screen for the rest of the entire game, I think once players use those buttons one time, it's obvious what they should do. Make the sprite strike a pose with that weapon when the auto-equip button is pressed. TA-DA. Also, the items in the topleft for auto-equip appear before you ever actually have that item. (The UI appeared, and I picked up the axe out of a chest... afterward.) That's terrible.
Mapping: There's two-tile high boxes I should be able to walk behind, among other things.
Books: WAY TOO LONG ARGH. I got trapped in the magic book. If you're going to have "books" with that much text, use an ATS system that allows you to show more than 4 lines of text at a time, or chop it up by TOPIC - "Ch1. Low Arcana" "Ch2. High Arcana"
"Trade Skills" - When you hit Escape after choosing this main menu option, it should go back to the main menu... like every other command on the main menu does when you hit Esc.
Buttons Buttons So Many Buttons - Press A S D to switch between the item you have equipped, press Enter to interact with stuff on the map but only if you already have the right item equipped, press Z on the success bar after successfully using said item on something? Really? So I have to press A to equip the axe, Enter to start the 'minigame', and Z to complete it? How about I just press "A" next to something that needs to be chopped, then "A" again (or even just "Enter" again) for the success bar? Actually, it seems Enter and Z do the same thing here. So why even introduce the Z-button into the mix? Seriously, this many buttons involved in a simple task shows a poor grasp of basic gameplay design. Also, if I get a PERFECT, it says "Firewood received." If I get an ALMOST! it says "One firewood received." ... Was I getting more than one for a perfect? You really need to polish this up.
Finally: Collected a ton of cotton and firewood, talked to the hooded guy, walked into every building, was stopped from trying to leave town because I have no equipment. And now I'm bored of walking around hunting for items and the game didn't interest me enough to look for what to do next.
It's not terrible but you need to do a lot of polishing on basic game design concepts (like how to teach the player what buttons do by showing, not telling, IE without displaying AUTO EQUIP on the UI for the entire game).
Title screen - I love the idea, the images used in it, and the layout, but it's way too lo-res and grainy for me.
"Loading" screen with tips - That was annoying. The text goes by juuuust a little bit too quickly, and you should probably skip them altogether unless it's ONE random hint before the game "loads" each time - that'd be a much cuter touch than having to sit through "loading" that the game itself admits is fake.
Intro credits - Are you seriously making me sit through a credit reel while the screen pans over a plain old boring town? are you serious? oh good the credits stopped... oh wait yay more sloooow map panning.
"AUTO EQUIP" - No point in having this on the screen for the rest of the entire game, I think once players use those buttons one time, it's obvious what they should do. Make the sprite strike a pose with that weapon when the auto-equip button is pressed. TA-DA. Also, the items in the topleft for auto-equip appear before you ever actually have that item. (The UI appeared, and I picked up the axe out of a chest... afterward.) That's terrible.
Mapping: There's two-tile high boxes I should be able to walk behind, among other things.
Books: WAY TOO LONG ARGH. I got trapped in the magic book. If you're going to have "books" with that much text, use an ATS system that allows you to show more than 4 lines of text at a time, or chop it up by TOPIC - "Ch1. Low Arcana" "Ch2. High Arcana"
"Trade Skills" - When you hit Escape after choosing this main menu option, it should go back to the main menu... like every other command on the main menu does when you hit Esc.
Buttons Buttons So Many Buttons - Press A S D to switch between the item you have equipped, press Enter to interact with stuff on the map but only if you already have the right item equipped, press Z on the success bar after successfully using said item on something? Really? So I have to press A to equip the axe, Enter to start the 'minigame', and Z to complete it? How about I just press "A" next to something that needs to be chopped, then "A" again (or even just "Enter" again) for the success bar? Actually, it seems Enter and Z do the same thing here. So why even introduce the Z-button into the mix? Seriously, this many buttons involved in a simple task shows a poor grasp of basic gameplay design. Also, if I get a PERFECT, it says "Firewood received." If I get an ALMOST! it says "One firewood received." ... Was I getting more than one for a perfect? You really need to polish this up.
Finally: Collected a ton of cotton and firewood, talked to the hooded guy, walked into every building, was stopped from trying to leave town because I have no equipment. And now I'm bored of walking around hunting for items and the game didn't interest me enough to look for what to do next.
It's not terrible but you need to do a lot of polishing on basic game design concepts (like how to teach the player what buttons do by showing, not telling, IE without displaying AUTO EQUIP on the UI for the entire game).
Monster repellent. Leave town. Not so hard to figure out what to do.
Also - make a sword and armor out of the firewood and cotton you collected? The woodworking shop and the clothier are right in town... I'm kind of surprised that you didn't notice that if you went into every building.
Also - make a sword and armor out of the firewood and cotton you collected? The woodworking shop and the clothier are right in town... I'm kind of surprised that you didn't notice that if you went into every building.
author=aprilschild
Also - make a sword and armor out of the firewood and cotton you collected? The woodworking shop and the clothier are right in town... I'm kind of surprised that you didn't notice that if you went into every building.
I did notice those, but on trying to leave town it makes it seem like YOU ARE MAKING A MONSTROUS, SUICIDAL MISTAKE by even attempting to do this yet. It's not the kind of thing I would expect to be ready for by making a cloth shirt and a wooden club. Also, there isn't much direction that there's any point in leaving town yet (I guess I'm supposed to be JOURNEYING! since I am a Journeyman? or something). Doesn't change the fact that I was already bored by the time I tried to leave town. Also what about the Axe I picked up? Why can't I use it to split skulls as well as wood? :<
Feel free to let Max McGee respond to his own game's criticism though.
aprilschild
Monster repellent. Leave town. Not so hard to figure out what to do.
Also - make a sword and armor out of the firewood and cotton you collected? The woodworking shop and the clothier are right in town... I'm kind of surprised that you didn't notice that if you went into every building.
when the menus look like shit...
...kind of hard to want to spend time in them. I haven't played the game, but... man.
author=Versalia
(I guess I'm supposed to be JOURNEYING! since I am a Journeyman? or something)
"A journeyman or journeylady is someone who completed an apprenticeship and was fully educated in a trade or craft, but not yet a master." -Wikipedia
Feel free to let Max McGee respond to his own game's criticism though.
I'm sure it would stoke Max's ego to say that he's the only one allowed to have opinions on things, but I don't tend to buy into that philosophy :P
Anyway, I don't really see what's wrong with the menus - how would you change it, visually? - but I agree that the "press z" button minigame graphic must go. Good thing Max said before somewhere on one of these screens that it's going to be replaced.
"Also what about the Axe I picked up? Why can't I use it to split skulls as well as wood? :<"
You can. I just prefer the quarterstaff for defense AND attack in one piece of equipment, plus it hits twice.
You can. I just prefer the quarterstaff for defense AND attack in one piece of equipment, plus it hits twice.
author=Gourd_Clae
"Also what about the Axe I picked up? Why can't I use it to split skulls as well as wood? :<"
You can. I just prefer the quarterstaff for defense AND attack in one piece of equipment, plus it hits twice.
I actually never made that. I am an awesome playtester :P.
Fun fact: After the first few playthroughs, I never made weapons in the early days of the game. I found that the axe and later the pickaxe worked fine for my purposes.
kumada
3917
I do agree with Versalia on a few points.
The game really should let you out of town before you've built anything, because that can actually be the cornerstone to a valid strategy. The lore books in the house are also inescapably long, and need some sort of emergency eject button.
I'm guessing that having to equip an item before you can mine the proper resource has a lot to do with the memory-intensiveness of making a script that checks your whole inventory for an item rather than just checking your equip slot. However, if I'm wrong, not having to swap around weapons frequently would speed up gameplay.
Craze, I'm not sure I'm seeing whatever it is you're seeing with the menus. What is it that you're seeing, by the way?
The only in-game menu that has ever left an impression on me was the one-of-your-team-mates-is-dead menu from Earthbound. It was pitched at exactly the right frequency of red to cause cerebral hemorrhaging at a distance of fifty feet. Unless a menu is causing me serious, unrelenting physical pain, I tend not to pay much attention to it, and this is fine. When I pull up a menu, I'm not looking at the menu itself. I'm looking at the objects in the menu. It's like the plate your meal comes on at a restaurant. Even if it's really, really pretty, it's still incidental to the meal.
The game really should let you out of town before you've built anything, because that can actually be the cornerstone to a valid strategy. The lore books in the house are also inescapably long, and need some sort of emergency eject button.
I'm guessing that having to equip an item before you can mine the proper resource has a lot to do with the memory-intensiveness of making a script that checks your whole inventory for an item rather than just checking your equip slot. However, if I'm wrong, not having to swap around weapons frequently would speed up gameplay.
Craze, I'm not sure I'm seeing whatever it is you're seeing with the menus. What is it that you're seeing, by the way?
The only in-game menu that has ever left an impression on me was the one-of-your-team-mates-is-dead menu from Earthbound. It was pitched at exactly the right frequency of red to cause cerebral hemorrhaging at a distance of fifty feet. Unless a menu is causing me serious, unrelenting physical pain, I tend not to pay much attention to it, and this is fine. When I pull up a menu, I'm not looking at the menu itself. I'm looking at the objects in the menu. It's like the plate your meal comes on at a restaurant. Even if it's really, really pretty, it's still incidental to the meal.
kumada
The only in-game menu that has ever left an impression on me was the one-of-your-team-mates-is-dead menu from Earthbound. It was pitched at exactly the right frequency of red to cause cerebral hemorrhaging at a distance of fifty feet. Unless a menu is causing me serious, unrelenting physical pain, I tend not to pay much attention to it, and this is fine. When I pull up a menu, I'm not looking at the menu itself. I'm looking at the objects in the menu. It's like the plate your meal comes on at a restaurant. Even if it's really, really pretty, it's still incidental to the meal.
Don't make me sic WIP on you. (WIP is a huge UI nut.) And, uh, the user interface is kind of really important and that menu is just really ugly. There's no kind of sorting or polish or anything... good about it.
It is a lot of grey text smashed together.
I have a lot to say, but only two really important things.
1. PLEASE PUT THE FOLDER CALLED GRAPHICS IN THE FOLDER CALLED JOURNEYMAN DEMO. PLEASE. You know what makes the UI and the game as a whole look a lot better? The icons being WHERE and WHAT they fucking should INSTEAD OF RANDOM OR MISSING. Please put the folder called graphics in the folder called journeyman demo before playing. Please. I really thought that between the download notes on the site and the readme in the download that people would get this.
I know it's inconvenient. It sucks. It is because of a glitch with the way that RMVX compresses files that's entirely beyond my control. I hope to have it ironed out by the final release.
PLEASE.
PLEASE.
But please do not judge the game based on a) your own unwillingness to follow quirky installation instructions and b) what the interface DOES NOT AT ALL FUCKING LOOK LIKE. That is PREPOSTEROUSLY UNFAIR.
2. Unless something truly bizarre has happened, it is entirely possible to leave town from the very beginning of the game onwards. You are just RECOMMENDED not to, which is a completely different story. You can, should, and will be able to leave the town from the very beginning of the game. This is as it always has been and always will be.
Kumada as you tested the game you should REALLY know this.
If you quit the game because the game asked you not to leave town, I don't know what to say. CLEARLY I should adjust the wording/appearance conditions of the message but it does not AT ALL prevent you from actually leaving. This is an unfortunate misunderstanding and easily correctable once I get to a computer that can actually open RPG Maker, but it's really not that big of a deal.
You can leave town, you should, the game does not stop you from doing so...I don't really know what else to say.
---DEEP BREATH BEFORE ADDITIONAL POSTING---
1. PLEASE PUT THE FOLDER CALLED GRAPHICS IN THE FOLDER CALLED JOURNEYMAN DEMO. PLEASE. You know what makes the UI and the game as a whole look a lot better? The icons being WHERE and WHAT they fucking should INSTEAD OF RANDOM OR MISSING. Please put the folder called graphics in the folder called journeyman demo before playing. Please. I really thought that between the download notes on the site and the readme in the download that people would get this.
I know it's inconvenient. It sucks. It is because of a glitch with the way that RMVX compresses files that's entirely beyond my control. I hope to have it ironed out by the final release.
PLEASE.
PLEASE.
But please do not judge the game based on a) your own unwillingness to follow quirky installation instructions and b) what the interface DOES NOT AT ALL FUCKING LOOK LIKE. That is PREPOSTEROUSLY UNFAIR.
2. Unless something truly bizarre has happened, it is entirely possible to leave town from the very beginning of the game onwards. You are just RECOMMENDED not to, which is a completely different story. You can, should, and will be able to leave the town from the very beginning of the game. This is as it always has been and always will be.
Kumada as you tested the game you should REALLY know this.
If you quit the game because the game asked you not to leave town, I don't know what to say. CLEARLY I should adjust the wording/appearance conditions of the message but it does not AT ALL prevent you from actually leaving. This is an unfortunate misunderstanding and easily correctable once I get to a computer that can actually open RPG Maker, but it's really not that big of a deal.
You can leave town, you should, the game does not stop you from doing so...I don't really know what else to say.
---DEEP BREATH BEFORE ADDITIONAL POSTING---
I have referred, euphemistically, to a disconnect between the games I am releasing and the ones people are playing before. In this case it is a LITERAL FACT, apparently.
The interface looks like THIS
Note the NON-ABSENCE of the millions of meticulously selected goddamn icons.
If your interface does not look like this, if you don't see Icons next to every otpion in the menu, you installed the game wrong. To quote myself for the fourteenth time...
It is not YOUR FAULT, certainly, I just find this IMMENSELY FRUSTRATING.
I am sorry for the quirky extra step in the install process and I am sorry for the apparent invisibility of the step-by-step instructions I put BOTH on the download page and in the download itself and I am sorry that VX cannot compress PNG files with dimensions as large as my iconset but really this is fundamentally beyond my control.
The interface looks like THIS
Note the NON-ABSENCE of the millions of meticulously selected goddamn icons.
If your interface does not look like this, if you don't see Icons next to every otpion in the menu, you installed the game wrong. To quote myself for the fourteenth time...
* IMPORTANT! Take the following steps to get the game to work properly.
0. Unzip the .rar archive you found this document in.
1. Run the self-extracting executable called Journeyman Demo.
2. Place the folder called Graphics inside the folder called Journeyman Demo. Voila, done! The game should now work beautifully, except for the minor problems outlined below in the Known & Confirmed Bugs section.
It is not YOUR FAULT, certainly, I just find this IMMENSELY FRUSTRATING.
I am sorry for the quirky extra step in the install process and I am sorry for the apparent invisibility of the step-by-step instructions I put BOTH on the download page and in the download itself and I am sorry that VX cannot compress PNG files with dimensions as large as my iconset but really this is fundamentally beyond my control.
Weird. I haven't played it, but Versa screencap'd that image and he most definitely went through the readme to tear it apart.
I mean, it's still not pretty, but it's tolerable.
I mean, it's still not pretty, but it's tolerable.
Versalia, I appreciate your feedback but it is almost entirely based on misunderstandings and wrong assumptions so I'm not sure what to make of it, really.
1) I am unclear how the difference between "x received" and "1 x received" does not innately and obviously imply that the former indicates a quantity other than one. I thought that could be assumed.
2) You don't need to press z to harvest anything, nor should you. This is just the default graphic of the minigame, I was slightly afraid of breaking it so I did not change it. Certainly another little thing for me to fix, but this is purely graphical, not a gameplay design choice, basic or otherwise. Enter is the button for everything.
3) The equip macros won't change. They're convenient and reminding the player of them is convenient. I make no apologies about things I won't be changing. Sprite me some equip poses and I'll use them, though.
3) You CAN IN FACT leave the town.
4) You CAN IN FACT fight enemies with your wood axe, and it is a fairly solid early game weapon, albeit a little inaccurate.
5) The game's interfaces are NOT IN FACT just a bunch of gray text smooshed together. Since I took an obnoxious amount of time finding the exact right icon for every in-game item and object and event and menu option..yeah. Please put the Graphics folder in the Journeyman Demo folder.
6) You make a good point that pressing escape from the trade skills menu should return you to the menu. It's a minor thing, but it's a good change and easily evented. I'll implement this as soon as I'm able.
1) I am unclear how the difference between "x received" and "1 x received" does not innately and obviously imply that the former indicates a quantity other than one. I thought that could be assumed.
2) You don't need to press z to harvest anything, nor should you. This is just the default graphic of the minigame, I was slightly afraid of breaking it so I did not change it. Certainly another little thing for me to fix, but this is purely graphical, not a gameplay design choice, basic or otherwise. Enter is the button for everything.
3) The equip macros won't change. They're convenient and reminding the player of them is convenient. I make no apologies about things I won't be changing. Sprite me some equip poses and I'll use them, though.
3) You CAN IN FACT leave the town.
4) You CAN IN FACT fight enemies with your wood axe, and it is a fairly solid early game weapon, albeit a little inaccurate.
5) The game's interfaces are NOT IN FACT just a bunch of gray text smooshed together. Since I took an obnoxious amount of time finding the exact right icon for every in-game item and object and event and menu option..yeah. Please put the Graphics folder in the Journeyman Demo folder.
6) You make a good point that pressing escape from the trade skills menu should return you to the menu. It's a minor thing, but it's a good change and easily evented. I'll implement this as soon as I'm able.
Weird. I haven't played it, but Versa screencap'd that image and he most definitely went through the readme to tear it apart.
Yeah, can we focus on this for a second? He was so intent on tearing it apart that he did not bother reading the one piece of text that was the entire reason I MADE the readme.
I mean, it's still not pretty, but it's tolerable.
I hope no one will mistake me for saying that "ARGLBARGL I DON'T WANT ANY FEEDBACK AT ALL"when I say specifically that I don't particularly care about your smug, douchey interface snobbery, villain.
I'm guessing that having to equip an item before you can mine the proper resource has a lot to do with the memory-intensiveness of making a script that checks your whole inventory for an item rather than just checking your equip slot. However, if I'm wrong, not having to swap around weapons frequently would speed up gameplay.
This is an example of feedback that I HAVE RECEIVED A LOT FROM MULTIPLE SOURCES AND THEREFORE SHOULD PROBABLY LISTEN TO. (Memory intensiveness has fuck-all to do with it, unfortunately. Should you ever open the RPG Maker editor, kumada, I am afraid you may be terribly disappointed at how little the programming of these games resembles real programming, in some ways.)
End tangent.
As I said, a lot of people want me to have the game just check if the axe/pick/pole is in your inventory rather than checking to see if it's equipped. I totally understand and kind of agree with their reason for wanting it that way.
However, I REALLY AND GENUINELY PREFER IT MY WAY. I'm not sure I could articulate why, but having to equip the item just feels better to me, and I really LIKE the auto-equip macros even if they're not strictly necessary. Something about them just seems fun to me.
However (second however) I'm totally unwilling to lose potential players over something that small, so if I can judge that to actually be a factor, at all, I will probably change it, compromising my design decision because the purpose of games is for people to fucking play them and if a game exists in the forest and nobody plays it was it ever really compiled?
I did notice those, but on trying to leave town it makes it seem like YOU ARE MAKING A MONSTROUS, SUICIDAL MISTAKE by even attempting to do this yet.
This is kind of just roguelike flavor, the implication that a MONSTROUS SUICIDAL MISTAKE and SOMETHING YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST DO TO PROGRESS IN THE GAME AT ALL are one and the same.
If people are confusing it as player feedback that "you should not go out ever" rather than player feedback of "don't go out until you feel ready" then I will change the wording, change the condition that makes the message appear, or remove it entirely.
Versalia's feedback -was- a little (but not grossly) condescending and "insulting" - try to avoid that, please, as it's completely unnecessary. Still, a lot of the actual feedback seems legit. Overreacting to such criticism is just as bad, though. Also, to Supervillain: "doesn't look good" works just as well as "looks like shit".
I do believe that this site's member needs to be a bit more professional in giving feedback, but they also need to be professional in receiving/reacting to it.
I do believe that this site's member needs to be a bit more professional in giving feedback, but they also need to be professional in receiving/reacting to it.
I'm not overreacting to the criticism, just a bit pissed off about the misunderstandings it's based on/the glitches that caused those misunderstandings in the first place.
(I know I did make a lot of consecutive posts, for which I apologize, but this computer I'm on is so awful that it hangs for full minutes if I dare to click edit.
*technological facepalm*)
(I know I did make a lot of consecutive posts, for which I apologize, but this computer I'm on is so awful that it hangs for full minutes if I dare to click edit.
*technological facepalm*)
Either way, it's still a valid general point for our site as a whole. Proper delivery of feedback and proper acceptance of feedback go hand in hand; the whole process becomes useless if one of those things disappears.
In general, people will listen to feedback and apply ideas only when the critic isn't being a douchebag, unless they're egomaniacs - then sometimes you have to hit them a little harder to get them out of their shell. Snarky feedback should be reserved for entertainment of an audience.
In general, people will listen to feedback and apply ideas only when the critic isn't being a douchebag, unless they're egomaniacs - then sometimes you have to hit them a little harder to get them out of their shell. Snarky feedback should be reserved for entertainment of an audience.
