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When experiments go wrong

  • NTC3
  • 01/18/2015 06:29 AM
  • 4413 views
Iron Gaia: Virus is like a DLC in the original meaning of the word: a short companion piece to the original game, developed afterwards to explore underdeveloped plot strands and let the developers try out new design ideas. On paper, that’s all well and good and you certainly cannot accuse Max McGee (aka Legion) of playing it safe and sitting on past successes. It’s still execution that matters the most, though, and while Virus might have been intended as a step sideways from Iron Gaia, it’s also a large step backwards.

Storyline

The best part of Virus. The game is set immediately after the (true) ending of the original, and gives player control of Slade, a fallen Celestial who was a secondary character in the original game. He needs to escape the Iron Gaia station as it has entered death spiral and on collision course with Earth, and save his friend Tom Brighton, while contending with the now-leaderless creations of Gaia and Dr. Cross, a figure from station’s forgotten past. For a while, the plot is at standstill as Slade is busy hunting for keycards, passcodes and other things, with little but errant Replicants and security robots to disturb him (more on that in gameplay). Like with the original game, it picks up soon and succeeds admirably at both expanding Slade’s character and filling in the many blanks from the original. Things like the reason for Gaia’s insanity, the formation of rebels, or, indeed, why Carter wasn’t turned into a Celestial alongside others, had all been only glanced at in the original, but are explained now. The writing remains sharp, and most dialogues are still a pleasure to read. If it wasn’t obvious already, playing original Iron Gaia is very important, since otherwise you wouldn’t understand the significance of many events and characters.

Again, it is not a perfect storyline, even when judged as on its aims as a gaiden game alone. Unlike the original, Virus lacks the out-of-place pop culture references, but it’s out-of-place swearing is hardly an improvement. Dr. Cross only occasionally transcends the generic Mad Scientist/ Dr. Mengele archetype he’s based on: it’s really rare to find anyone today actually believing that “compassion is a vestigial left-over of evolution” or that “there can be no parallel pathways of evolution” (there totally are). As you can tell from these quotes, he’s a completely ruthless, frequently emotionless figure, who’s practically irredeemable, and yet you still fail to defeat him personally in a disappointing conclusion that doesn’t resolve a whole lot. The biggest problems, however, are all to do with gameplay, which isn’t just disappointing on its own, but also drags down the storyline along with it.

Gameplay

Let’s begin with the three-hour timer. On paper, it’s a good idea, since it gives urgency to the whole process and discourages purposeful grinding. The problem is that it has no effect other than failing the game once it runs out. Characters will act exactly the same regardless of whether there are 15 minutes until the crash or 45 minutes. Needless to say, that isn’t realistic at all, but what’s worse is that it makes you dread every new plot twist or development instead of anticipating them, as it means more time spent in the accursed confines of the station. There are a few games made in the engine that pulled off divergent storylines, so it’s really not too much to ask for the story to change depending on the amount of time left during the key points. Hell, even having Slade act like he’s aware of the timer and say things if a player is spending too long at the certain plot point would’ve been a huge improvement.

To be honest, though, I could have tolerated the above flaw and replaying the game because of it, if the process itself was enjoyable. I could have had also enjoyed the way Metroidvania elements of the original are brought to the forefront: since 3 of 4 wings of the block you’re in are locked at the start, and require various cards and passcodes to open, there’s a lot of running around back and forth to get the passcodes, keycards and more, while also solving related challenges within each wing (i.e. getting a Hazmat suit to pass through a toxic area or extracting a passcode from a section of DNA). These sub-challenges can be rather creative, and more cool scenarios are introduced later on. What separates Virus from ranks of successful Metroidvanias is the way Slade often refuses to interact with items until he knows what they’re for, mandating further running back-and-forth and wasting player’s time. Equally often, when Slade does finally need something (operational switch, blood scanner, etc.), he usually just says that it must be somewhere, and rarely thinks about where it might be, thus mandating more crazed running around, made more frustrating by the implementation of combat.

In between instalments, the combat system changed from first-person with unlimited turn length to third-person with active time bars. Neither approach is inherently superior, but Virus’ battles are crippled by Slade being alone and starting with only two weapon skills, a bizarre and unexplained nerf given that he had six in the original. This removes nearly all tactics from battles; essentially, they consist of spamming Lead Hose (group attack skill) against zombies/cameras until only 1-2 are left standing. Tougher enemies, or even early bosses, are to be head-shotted or attacked with Full Auto when you get it. Winning these battles earns you Nanites, which replace both credits and XP from the first game, a change with absolutely no explanation behind it. They can be spent to purchase vital items in auto-shops, re-learn inexplicably forgotten gun skills, learn new Sigma skills, upgrading primary stats, upgrading hacking and repair skills (more on that later) and special Gifts. Managing it all is incredibly stressful at the beginning, yet is unsatisfyingly shallow near the end, which is literally the opposite of how RPG progression is meant to function.

To elaborate, you’re initially dazzled by all the options on display and have no idea what will be the best tactical option. As you get further into the game, you quickly realise that half of those skills are not needed anyway, and there are too few Nanites to waste it on them. The choice between Knee Cap and Disarm isn’t very interesting or meaningful, for instance, especially when most fights don’t last long enough to actually make them valuable. Out of the stat upgrades, Agility is the only one that changes things much, as it (mostly) prevents enemies attacking before you when maxed out. The rest are really only there if you have spare Nanite, their effects dwarfed by the randomness in every fight. Sigma feats and Special Gifts are more important, but are terribly balanced. Drain Life and Spawn Shadow are far more useful than Disrupter and Nox, since the former never drains Energy fast enough and Shadow is already capable of inflicting blindness. The Special Gifts are even worse; Move-By-Wire is a cool but misguided idea, since the block is very cramped, and battles plus various puzzles take up a lot more time than movement already. Starfall and Ascension Rage Techniques are too expensive to use outside of boss battles, and so this leaves Enhanced Adrenal Gland as an “I Win” Upgrade, since it grants health regeneration and immunity to all status effects.

It’s really difficult to overestimate just how much that upgrade changes/breaks the game. When combined with maxed-out Dermal Plating, Slade will never lose health in low-level battles again; often he walks into battle wounded and walks out healed, and skills need to be used. Battles against more advanced enemies are equally broken, as their ability to inflict status effects is essentially what sets them apart from low-level grunts. Scorpion-like things that inflict Shock are nigh-undefeatable without it, because in another bizarre change, that skill, which only lasted a single turn in the original, now disables a character for about a dozen turns, when that’s the LAST thing that should happen in one-on-one fights. Being immune to such status effects also abdicates you from needing to carry Panaceas, Sutures Kits and other such things for the rest of the game; my apologies to those of you who stocked up on them early, for that was a waste of valuable Nanite. However, don’t rush to get it at the start: you have to have cleared the Chimera Virus segment, otherwise it will override the Gland somehow when you’re infected with it. In spite of what the terminals say, you won’t get the gland restored by healing at the one-time use Regeneration Chambers.

Remarkably, the game still manages to frustrate even when the gland is working properly, because of the now-infamous cameras. Added as a replacement for random encounters alongside patrols on the map, they’re the kind of solution that only makes things worse. Random encounters are supposedly disliked for unexpectedly forcing player into combat, except that in Iron Gaia, you could nearly always flee from them. Due to that game’s difficulty, that choice felt truly meaningful, and made battles you fought in just a bit more special. Here, the Escape button might as well have been removed from the menu, since it’s greyed out 100% of the time anyway, and so you really do feel forced into combat. Each camera will always summon the same arrangement of enemies every time, and the patrols also never change in their lay-out, which makes the game feel even more stale. I once saw an article explaining the difference between input and output randomness in game design, but didn’t truly understand it until I played Virus. It cuts down on the interesting input randomness in its combat by making every given camera/patrol encounter start the same (vs. the relatively wide range of enemy groupings in the first Iron Gaia), and increases output randomness by vastly increasing the damage range of every attack and ability. When the exact same fight against two First Lines or 4 Security Turrets can be over in two turns or in five, depending purely on how much damage your attacks/abilities could inflict, you feel like it’s not you who’s winning the fights, but the invisible dice rolls.

Technically, patrols can be avoided on the map, and cameras knocked out with Chaff Grenades, but these “options” are very poorly implemented. The maps are often too small to make avoidance viable; the “chase” from mutated Nerakov, where both of you end up stuck in the corner of the hallway for about 20 seconds is the worst example. Similarly, some enemies are both faster than Slade and will unpredictably turn towards him at a set distance, again making avoidance non-viable. The Chaff Grenades temporarily knock out the cameras (and later various bombs) when used in the menu; there’s no visible timer for them, and it’s possible to run into a camera just as the field runs out, especially if they’re placed in the far corners or at the entrances, where they’re practically impossible to spot. Of course, these cameras can be permanently disabled through hacking the terminals, in what remains the worst mechanic in the game. Hacking terminals has the double misfortune of being absolutely ridiculous story-wise, with the terminals placed exactly under each camera the way no security would ever work, and making for horrible gameplay due to hacking being entirely percentage-based and out of your control. Again, the output randomness reduces player involvement in the process, and the hacking upgrades you can buy have less influence over the process than reloading and trying again.

Then, there obviously have to be consequences for failure, and so unpredictably failing the hack instantly starts another fight, one that typically has a lot more enemies than what the camera would have summoned on its own if you left the terminal alone. Apparently, they just teleport over there instantly, which again breaks the immersion; additional patrol on the map in say 10 seconds would’ve made a lot more sense. Plus, surviving the fight with the response team still leaves the camera active, and it’s possible to fail the hack, defeat response team, then walk two steps and trigger the camera you were just trying to disable. On my second playthrough I learnt that you’re better off just ignoring the terminals, smashing through turrets in the early sections of the game and stocking up on Chaff Grenades for later stretches. Ironically, the whole seems a response to complaints about the horrible hacking minigame in the original, and yet that segment was bad mainly because of the equally random nature of opening data nodes inside the simulation. In short, the right answer would’ve been to have skills used to bypass singular cameras (say, A Sigma Feat summoning a cloud of smoke), fewer terminals (about one per room/corridor would’ve been good), and a properly working minigame + Nanite boost at the end. As it is, you’re often making yourself weaker by hacking the terminals, while repairing usually removes Nanites from Slade. There are two machines which he can repair and then hack for a large sum of Nanites, but it’s really an exception proving the rule.

Before I move on, I must mention the Spider Droid assembly from parts hidden on every block. Sadly, that’s another cool idea executed poorly: You’re not told how many droid parts are needed (it’s 4), causing you to waste time running to and from work bench, hoping you can finally get a robot ally only to discover that more stuff is needed. You won’t get all parts until the tail section of the game, when Slade is likely to already have Adrenal Gland and so not really need it. There’s a choice between four types of Droid, but you’re not told of their actual differences beyond Attack, Defence, Smart and Fast. I chose Defence because I didn’t want to repair it too often, and it turned that the droid a) lacks abilities of any kind; b) cannot be controlled manually. In essence, it’s a lot worse than the Sigma Shadow you can summon as soon as you get the skill for it. Hell, I would’ve had accepted the option to recycle it for a tidy sum of Nanites, but you can’t even do that!

Aesthetics (art, design and sound)

Level layout and graphics are the only areas with notable improvements over the original. The Chrono Trigger tileset does in fact look better than the default tiles, and there’s a more consistent feel to the station. There are also more interactive objects in rooms than before, and reading Slade’s comments on various broken machinery again adds to the atmosphere significantly. The combat graphics are again hit-and-miss: the new Replicant Soldiers (which fight exactly like original’s Elite Guards) and Rotting Zombies are the only ones to look a lot better than their original rendition. I suppose that unnamed purple-colored gun robots (unlike the original, Virus never displays enemies’ names, so while you can recognise some if you played the first game, others remain a mystery) and the Junior Celestials also look nice, but other changes are bizarre, with the new Fury Stingers getting the worst of it.

The combat backgrounds generally look better than they did in the first game, but are still rather unexceptional. In what seems to be a bizarre oversight, the lower third of the screen is typically completely black every time you fight, with no design elements at all, and this again gives a rather unfinished look to the game. The new “Gear”-style combat menu is lacking in functionality: it only shows Slade’s portrait and his HP, Energy and turn gauges. Thus, if you’re hit with a status effect and you miss the second-long space when the attack’s name was displayed, you’re screwed, since there’s only one “afflicted” sprite for all status effects. When there are three effects dedicated to draining health over time (Poison, Bleeding, and Burning) and all of them require different remedies, this can really end up in death.

The tracks used for the OST are technically good, again being a mix of original (?) tracks and midi versions of Nu Metal and classic game OST. Unlike some other people, I didn’t mind Coheed and Cambria songs, since they always fit the situation. "Delirium Trigger" is a superior song to “Keeping the Secrets of the Silent Earth”, and using it as the main theme is another modest improvement over the first game. However, the way music is set together is disappointing, as you’ll often run down two corridors with one track playing, then enter the next one set to a track with rather different sound and tempo, and it always feels jarring. It’s particularly notable in the main lobby: Silent Hill 2’s "True" is one of the all-time great compositions, but there’s a reason it was only used once in that game, since it loses its power as mere background music. In a final example of misplaced priorities that plague Virus, you can change battle themes and/or menu colours to one of four options through the Portable Console. It’s nice, sure, but I would’ve gladly given it away in return for any of the flaws listed above being fixed.

Conclusion

Some of you might now be glancing up at the score and wondering why it’s not lower. To put it simply, I wouldn’t have written 3000 words about this game if I didn’t care about it, and it made me care for several reasons. I really liked the original Iron Gaia and loved the setting it created. I enjoyed the way Virus’ storyline tied in with the original and expanded on it, even if the conclusion was again lacking. Some of the individual scenes are truly great; the 40's noir-styled firefight in a VR simulation is practically pitch-perfect and something I never expected to see. I can even see the intent behind every design element I criticised above, and the promise it could’ve had. However, it doesn’t change the fact that Virus is a highly disappointing game that didn’t have enough thought put into its execution and fails to live up to the original Iron Gaia. If you're a fan of the original Iron Gaia, play it at your discretion.

Posts

Pages: 1
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9159
First off, thank you for the detailed and in-depth review. It was certainly not a pleasure to read but nonetheless I appreciate the effort it must have taken to set down in writing.

I fervently hope no one, not one soul, actually ignores this game because of your recommendation they do so.

While I can't mathematically prove to you that IG:V is better than Iron Gaia with an equation or something, it is something I know to be true with about the certainty that I know that ten times out of ten if I drop an apple out of my hand on earth, it will fall to the ground.

I don't agree with this review. I can't engage in a point by point refutation because this game is nine years old. I don't know as much about it as I did when I made it. I am also sure this review must contain some valid points. You point out some errors in gameplay execution that I can't dispute. I just disagree (to the death!) that those errors spoil the overall experience.

I'm going to try not to get emotionally upset over this review in a way that makes me not just want to stop making games forever, but wish I had done so a decade ago, just for a change! I've never NOT gotten upset over a strongly worded negative review before, so it might be a nice change of pace.

Unfortunately, this requires me not to actually read the review all that closely, as close reading and rereading would almost certainly lead to me getting upset.

So I'll just say one thing that struck me as darkly funny. And be aware that the following:

a) is extremely cynical, informed by ten years of experience with the output of the RM engines
b) as I say below, should not be mistaken by anyone for my defense of IG:V which as mentioned above is "Sir Not Appearing In This Film"


author=NTC3
...fails to live up or to the original Iron Gaia or to compete with many other games on this engine

Bro please do play a LOT more games made on this engine and then try writing this sentence again. Whether you're talking about RM2k3, RM2k(3), or just RM generally, IGV doesn't just compete with many other games made in this engine, it curb stomps the vast overwhelming majority of them into the ground. And that statement doesn't even require IGV to be a good game.

However disappointing you found this sequel, understand that the vast majority of games made in RM are unplayable piles of drek. However disappointing you found IG:V, I fucking guarantee you it is still in the TOP 5% of RM Games ever made.

You don't realize what an incredible accomplishment it is--statistically speaking at least--to produce even the most mediocre RM game, especially if it's complete when the 90% of the engine lifetime output is not just unplayable garbage but scraps of unplayable garbage. None of this is meant to elevate IG:V's relative status in anyone's eyes. It's just fact.

Let me clarify: if ANYONE AT ALL thinks I am putting down an RM game you like with the above, I am not. Any RM game anyone reading this likes is already in the not-that-illustrious all time top 5% of RM games along with IG:V.

Final thoughts:

author=NSTC3
Ironically, the whole seems a response to complaints about the horrible hacking minigame in the original

This is so not even slightly true that I'd lol if i wasn't so baffled. You're the first person I've ever heard disliked that minigame, and that's something I learned in 2015.

author=NSTC3
Hacking terminals ... making for horrible gameplay due to hacking being entirely percentage-based and out of your control

well you can control how many nanites you put in your hacking skill

Man, a guy literally CAN'T WIN. I took this EXACT feedback and fed it directly forward into Journeyman, replacing all of the "out of the player's control" dice rolls in that game for that game's equivalent of camera hacking with directly-controlled-by-the-player minigames instead and that exact decision directly lead to the game getting panned so viciously that I literally fucking cancelled it.

It's so infuriatingly sad that it's actually kind of funny: one literally CANNOT WIN. In this day and age, "you can't please everybody" has become "you can't please anybody".

Peace out.

- Maximilian Q. McGee Esq. (Legion|DTO)
OK, I have edited out the "many games" section from the review, since I admittedly haven't played much of what's on there. However, I've read the Journeyman review, and I think that you're confusing the two issues. I might have missed something, but I don't think that either the review OR the comments below it actually wanted the random dice rolls to return. Hell, half of the criticism was not for the minigame itself but for the need to frequently change equipment in order to initiate it, and the rest just said that it featured too often: the review itself says "sometimes it's possible to have too much of a GOOD thing."

I'll also say this: minigame ≠ QTE, and the latter is what you've essentially gone for in Journeyman. Have you played Iji? The way the hacking minigame was done in that game was nearly perfect. While rm2k3 probably wouldn't have supported it, it doesn't mean that a QTE, particularly one QTE used for everything, which apparently was the case in Journeyman, is your only option. I still would have had gladly taken that "Press Z" minigame for every terminal if that was my only alternative to waiting for a computer to decide if you've succeeded or failed. Alternatively, I would've had liked to have a minigame like the original Iron Gaia IF:

1) There was no chance element with those data nodes.

2) The area was much more open and wider and patrolling programs didn't move so fast, so that it would've functioned more like actual stealth.

3) There were a lot fewer terminals: something like one terminal per corridor/2 corridors would've been much better placement for an similarly long minigame.

I hope that my post shows that you actually can win; I think your problem with this and other decisions like that is that you have a tendency to create false dichtonomies for yourself, so to speak, and thus restrict the choices you think are available.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=Max McGee
Bro please do play a LOT more games made on this engine and then try writing this sentence again. Whether you're talking about RM2k3, RM2k(3), or just RM generally, IGV doesn't just compete with many other games made in this engine, it curb stomps the vast overwhelming majority of them into the ground. And that statement doesn't even require IGV to be a good game.

However disappointing you found this sequel, understand that the vast majority of games made in RM are unplayable piles of drek. However disappointing you found IG:V, I fucking guarantee you it is still in the TOP 5% of RM Games ever made.

I just have to say that people who are this full of themselves have no right to call themselves artists of any sort because such a thing requires one to identify and acknowledge the faults in their creations and to humbly take responsibility for such shortcomings. And this is how it's always been.

v 12/25/2011 v
author=Corfaisus
author=Ghost
you steal art, you steal plots, and you can't even make decent gameplay if your life depended on it.

P.S:

"This is not the first time that an artist has been defensive of their work. It is not the last"

You're not an artist.
A con-artist, perhaps? :D

All merriment aside, there was nothing wrong with this review and yet you, Max McGee, still responded as though it were overly and needlessly venomous. Way to go.
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9159

author=Corfaisus
I just have to say that people who are this full of themselves have no right to call themselves artists of any sort because such a thing requires one to identify and acknowledge the faults in their creations and to humbly take responsibility for such shortcomings. And this is how it's always been.


author=Corfaisus
people who are this full of themselves


author=Corfaisus
full of themselves


author=Corfaisus
full of themselves


author=Corfaisus
I've got a new idea for a game! It came to me while I was sitting on the toilet. I project it to be the next big hit and one that will shake you to your core. One that demands emotional investment. It's gonna be meta and minimalistic as fuck.

It's going to push your suspension of disbelief to the limits as you encounter moments like "Be right back, I've gotta go let the dog out." followed by 20+ seconds of absolutely nothing. Afterward, you'll get a message like "Okay, I'm back. Thanks for waiting."

I smell Misao.


author=Corfaisus
author=slashphoenix
And Corf mocking a game for being about saving the world is... like... some level of meta-blindness that I can't comprehend.
The difference is that my games don't revolve around the childish notion of "saving the world"/"being a hero" and the personal, unfulfilled, Mary Sue power-fantasy that comes with it.


author=Corfaisus
C'mon now, just because you don't get my brilliance doesn't make my games not good.


author=Corfaisus
Check out some of my games, and no, I'm not joking. I don't waste my time making anything that I know is going to be garbage.


author=Corfaisus
I'm not a lazy twat so I've developed the discipline necessary to see a project through to the end, regardless of length or what I'm "not comfortable with" (which is a list that's shrinking every day because I'm daring to step outside of my comfort zone constantly, and I've been fortunate enough to never be put into a position where I can fall back on previous successes). Regardless of using RTP, I actually put a lot of thought into all that I do and I'm not afraid to scrap a whole thing just to make it better.


author=Corfaisus
You know what's truly horrifying? One person buying your game and that's it. Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful that they dropped a whole $25 in my lap "for all the good I do at RMN", and I know simply completing the game is success enough in my own right, but we've got bills to pay and mouths to feed. My hopes of getting noticed and making some real dough now rests at the mercy of big-name youtubers like Game Grumps, PressHeartToContinue, and Pewdiepie (all of which I've sent a message to).

I don't need to get rich, but my family could really use that money, you know. I mean, God, I skipped out on spending time with my extended family at my grandparents house on Thanksgiving so I could keep an eye on who all was purchasing the game so that I could, you know, give them what they want ASAP.


author=Corfaisus
I just have to say that people who are this full of themselves have no right to call themselves artists of any sort because such a thing requires one to identify and acknowledge the faults in their creations and to humbly take responsibility for such shortcomings. And this is how it's always been.


author=Corfaisus
people who are this full of themselves


author=Corfaisus
full of themselves


author=Corfaisus
full of themselves




author=Link_2112
All this coming from a guy who is making a 2k3 RTP epic about dragons. Yeah.
author=Corfaisus
author=Max McGee
Bro please do play a LOT more games made on this engine and then try writing this sentence again. Whether you're talking about RM2k3, RM2k(3), or just RM generally, IGV doesn't just compete with many other games made in this engine, it curb stomps the vast overwhelming majority of them into the ground. And that statement doesn't even require IGV to be a good game.

However disappointing you found this sequel, understand that the vast majority of games made in RM are unplayable piles of drek. However disappointing you found IG:V, I fucking guarantee you it is still in the TOP 5% of RM Games ever made.
I just have to say that people who are this full of themselves have no right to call themselves artists of any sort because such a thing requires one to identify and acknowledge the faults in their creations and to humbly take responsibility for such shortcomings. And this is how it's always been.

v 12/25/2011 v
author=Corfaisus
author=Ghost
you steal art, you steal plots, and you can't even make decent gameplay if your life depended on it.

P.S:

"This is not the first time that an artist has been defensive of their work. It is not the last"

You're not an artist.
A con-artist, perhaps? :D

All merriment aside, there was nothing wrong with this review and yet you, Max McGee, still responded as though it were overly and needlessly venomous. Way to go.

Dude, seriously? Quoting a 4 year old post to make a(n outdated) point? That's pretty damn silly. :/

Secondly, to be fair, Max has a point about what he said. You can't say 'this game is the worst game that exists from this engine' if you haven't played that many of that engines' games. You CAN say 'this game is the worst 2k3 game I'VE ever played and hey, that'd be fine - it's a personal experience, but to throw it without the personalisation added is beyond silly.

There's nothing wrong with having pride in your game. Personally, I wouldn't say it's in the top 5% (maybe top 20% - there's a lot of great 2k3 games out there and I've played thousands over my time in the community) but people are allowed to be proud of their accomplishments.

That said, you, Max, shouldn't be so fast to throw away someone's review as irrelevant. There are things in it that you should pay attention to for future games and even if you don't agree with most points, it's a good idea to find those few that are useful for you own game creating and think on them. Casual dismissal is never a good thing.

That said, this is an old game so I understand why you wouldn't take the review as seriously as you would if it were a new game - you've already finished with the game, put it on the shelf and said 'Yeah, that was a good game.' It's already in the past for you, so feedback on it telling you what you should change is going to just be ignored because it's no longer relevant to you - the game is finished and no longer going to be touched.

Also, artists are totally full of themselves, for the record. You think Michelangelo wasn't talking up his game?

Frankly, Corfaisus, stop poking the Max. I've noticed you enjoy doing it. Please stop.

Max, please try not to be so prickly. Certain people like to get reactions out of you by poking and responding to them gives them what they want. Just... deep, calming breaths, okay? Try not to get too personal with attacks and the like.

NTC3, just remember that reviews for old completed/abandonned games may not garner the response you'd like due to them being old and/or abandoned. Don't lose heart over that but just keep in mind that people aren't likely to go and change their old game just because one review said they should. (And recommending people not play a game is a pretty dickish move, especially when it's a decent game all up, bar maybe an issue or two you didn't like. Unless the game is completely fucked up in some way, I wouldn't recommend telling people not to play. It's a fast way to put peoples' backs up and will end up with you getting a reputation as an unfair reviewer. I'm not saying not to put your opinion, but make sure it's represented as your personal opinion and not a fact.)
CashmereCat
Self-proclaimed Puzzle Snob
11638
This makes me want to play this game to see if it's actually good or bad. I get so many varying opinions about this game it'll be curious to see what it's actually like.
pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
32347
I'm downloading it now.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=Liberty
author=Corfaisus
author=Max McGee
Bro please do play a LOT more games made on this engine and then try writing this sentence again. Whether you're talking about RM2k3, RM2k(3), or just RM generally, IGV doesn't just compete with many other games made in this engine, it curb stomps the vast overwhelming majority of them into the ground. And that statement doesn't even require IGV to be a good game.

However disappointing you found this sequel, understand that the vast majority of games made in RM are unplayable piles of drek. However disappointing you found IG:V, I fucking guarantee you it is still in the TOP 5% of RM Games ever made.
I just have to say that people who are this full of themselves have no right to call themselves artists of any sort because such a thing requires one to identify and acknowledge the faults in their creations and to humbly take responsibility for such shortcomings. And this is how it's always been.

v 12/25/2011 v
author=Corfaisus
author=Ghost
you steal art, you steal plots, and you can't even make decent gameplay if your life depended on it.

P.S:

"This is not the first time that an artist has been defensive of their work. It is not the last"

You're not an artist.
A con-artist, perhaps? :D

All merriment aside, there was nothing wrong with this review and yet you, Max McGee, still responded as though it were overly and needlessly venomous. Way to go.
Dude, seriously? Quoting a 4 year old post to make a(n outdated) point? That's pretty damn silly. :/

The problem here is that it's not outdated because he clearly has yet to grow a day wiser since then. The fact remains that he's still dismissive at every front on the grounds of "this is needlessly hurtful/you're plain wrong". He still puts his ego first (top 5% of games?) while completely lacking the wisdom to notice that his games aren't God's gift to mortal men and that they indeed have miles worth of improvement possible.

The entirety of this post sums it up perfectly. Instead of acknowledging personal faults, he flares up and attacks anyone who he deems "wrong".

author=Corfaisus
I've got a new idea for a game! It came to me while I was sitting on the toilet. I project it to be the next big hit and one that will shake you to your core. One that demands emotional investment. It's gonna be meta and minimalistic as fuck.

It's going to push your suspension of disbelief to the limits as you encounter moments like "Be right back, I've gotta go let the dog out." followed by 20+ seconds of absolutely nothing. Afterward, you'll get a message like "Okay, I'm back. Thanks for waiting."

I smell Misao.
author=Corfaisus
I'm not a lazy twat so I've developed the discipline necessary to see a project through to the end, regardless of length or what I'm "not comfortable with" (which is a list that's shrinking every day because I'm daring to step outside of my comfort zone constantly, and I've been fortunate enough to never be put into a position where I can fall back on previous successes). Regardless of using RTP, I actually put a lot of thought into all that I do and I'm not afraid to scrap a whole thing just to make it better.
author=Corfaisus
I don't need to get rich, but my family could really use that money, you know. I mean, God, I skipped out on spending time with my extended family at my grandparents house on Thanksgiving so I could keep an eye on who all was purchasing the game so that I could, you know, give them what they want ASAP.

The fact that he uses these quotes as reasons for his "argument" tells me that he completely misses the point (especially the first where it was very clearly meant to be a joke directed at the "art" games given the context of when I wrote that post. Discipline and sacrifice is being full of oneself? I'm quite sure that's not how that one works, Max. Speaking the truth isn't bragging.

author=Liberty
Frankly, Corfaisus, stop poking the Max. I've noticed you enjoy doing it. Please stop.

Having an opinion at any given time isn't "poking the badger". I'm saying what's been needed to be said for years that I personally have recognized and I'm trying to keep it civil while also not sugar-coating it.

This does not constitute "trolling" or what have you; I'm simply acknowledging a problem that surprisingly (given how long he's been in the public eye when all it really takes is a few days of serious self-reflection) hasn't been contained yet.
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9159
For the record...I don't think NTC3 did anything wrong whatsoever. His review is a fine review, really. I just...5%...20%...whatever. My point was just that most RM games are quite bad and IGV doesn't even have to be all that great (although of course I think it is) to be among the better ones. But anyway NTC3's review was fine he and I are cool. It's not even all that negative of a review, it's just pretty typical "fan of original disappointed with sequel" stuff that creators have to get used to.

Corfaisus I have been advised to ignore you so *ignores*. One less thing to worry about. And I still will continue to feel like my hilarious expose of your over-the-top hypocrisy (*calls people full of themselves while making hilariously unfounded self-aggrandizing posts all over the place*) was my magnum opus of forum posting. And whatever you have to say in response to this...I won't see it. Ever! Yay!

There really is something to this whole "Ignorance Is Bliss" thing.
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