THE_GHOSTMAN'S PROFILE

author=Nightblade
A "Pseudo Intellectual". Are you aware of the cliché "Pot calling the kettle black"? You say one thing, contradict yourself in the next paragraph and then proceed to complain and condescend to the people calling you out on it.

Someone is self-conscious. Can you list these imaginary contradictions? In order to call me out you need list it so I can at least debate the substance. And yes, I have heard of the pot calling the kettle black. I've also heard of projecting. Using the terms "complain" and "condescend" would fit that definition.

author=Nightblade
People aren't "confused", you're just doing a poor job of conveying your thoughts.

You are confused and doing a poor job reading or debating.

author=Nightblade
RPGs are actually difficult to make and balance properly and again, you oversimplify. Let's go ask the folks at bioware how "easy" it was making Mass Effect. Hell, let's ask NeoK how "easy" it was making Alter Aila. RPGs aren't inherently harder or easier to make than any other genre. It all depends on what the game actually tries to accomplish.

I didn't realize I had to say "In my opinion" after any ambiguous statement. "In my opinion" RPGs are easy to make, and that statement is further backed up by the fact that everyone here makes RPGs almost exlucisvely. If you have difficulty making them, so be it. I do not. I didn't know my opinion made such a difference to you. I'm flattered.

author=Nightblade
I could say the same to Radnen's assertion; but at least Radnen isn't being a complete twat.

Pay attention to the person who is "condescending" and "complaining", everyone. He calls people on forums "twats" and "stupid" because they do not deem it necessary to include complex villains in games.

author=Nightblade
Good lore is good, bad lore is bad. Astonishing revelation.

I am not surprised that you're so upset at me that you're randomly attacking anything I say with cheap and tactlessly adorned sarcasm. Very mature. Very classy.

author=Nightblade
There is no universal answer as to how lore should be handled. I think the issue has already been answered well enough to not have to warrant further discussion.

Is that your insult and run last-ditch or....? Need I add "in my opinion" after every noticeably opinion-required statement? I believe this person has it out for me because of my use of the word "benefit". Strange. As a suggestion, the next time you try to engage someone in debate, you should actually do something called "back up your statements" so that I have the opportunity to analyze and debate them. Calling someone "stupid" is not an argument.

Back to the thread's original topic(Unfortunately I am still babysitting) - Do you actually plan on inserting character development into a game you're making, or are you simply curious? I cannot think of many truly plot-driven or heavy games. Most games aren't even that coherent in plot or story. Let alone containing character development.

I've never seen that style of face-sets.

author=LockeZ
You guys are so ruffled at each-other that you don't even notice that you don't disagree. Unbelievable. Quit bickering about semantics and go to bed.

I hate when a single irrational person during a debate causes both parties to appear irrational or disagreeable. I wish people would pay attention to the immature pseudo-intellectual who was chucking insults and the person who was identifying his reasoning whilst dealing with said rudeness.

author=LockeZ
Oh dear lord no, there are no positive qualities to this writing. It is 100% camp. If there is anything acceptable about it, let me know so I can change it.

Okay then, I'll be completely honest. The substance is good enough for a game, but for a novel the writing is adolescent and smells of MMORPGs.

author=Radnen
STOP TALKING ABOUT GAMES GOD DAMNIT

When I meant "game" I meant RPG, as with what we all should use. Stop being so damn general in your posts, guys... Otherwise I'm sitting here thinking Pong has a story, and it clearly does not.

To save my own hide. I had earlier said: "games are defacto stories" I meant RPG's. :P

RPG's have interesting stories, and you'd better be a god damned good writer. RPG's aren't easy, they are indeed the hardest type of game to make, let alone write for. "Lore" is implicit in any RPG. I may not be an RPG master by a long shot, but I do know "lore" is heavily involved, and I do know that if you aren't a good writer (sorry for being blunt earlier), then get some editors who do know how to write and help you mold the story.

This thread was supposed to be about pacing vs character development. Not what constitutes a good RPG. But because lore and other things constitute character development, you are indeed slowing down the pace to explain things. This is where I'll let my argument stand.

Let's get back on track people.

Edit: Dang people post fast here... :/ Ghostman now has the right idea (as of top of page 4)... When earlier he did not.

I've had the "right" idea the entire time, whether or not I was adhering to your idea(s) is not a matter of right or wrong, and people getting confused and misconstruing ideas does not help.

And I disagree. RPGs are the easiest type of game to make. That's why everybody here makes those almost exclusively, not because they are all champions of good-story writing worthy of their very own publishers.

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About lores, which seems to be the 'now' topic, they are fun, even in an RPG with little story or character development. They don't have to be long or complex, just something about said enemy + how it relates to the world around you. Even Pikmin 2 has them for its enemies, and it actually adds some intrigue. It's the self-indulgent, long-winded and verbose lores which do not create any atmosphere and simply illuminate the writer's nerdiness.

author=Solitayre
I suggest you two take your catfight to PM, it's derailing the thread.

Explaining myself gets me into so much trouble!

author=Nightblade
There is really little else that can be said that explains just what is wrong with this guy. Don't worry.

It'd be nice if you explained your arguments rather than throw insults and ad hominem to reflect dominance in a debate. It doesn't help that you're confused.

Anyway, back to the thread's origin -

A fun game does not need character development, or deep story, or any of that drivel which RPGs need so unfortunately. If you're going to try to insert character development to your game's story, it must happen, obviously, after events which would explain said "development". For example, let's say you have RPG archetype 'Beautiful Silent Swordsman who keeps to himself." The events which would lead to his "development" (Which would mostly be more talkative and open and revealing about his past) would probably include simply being with the party throughout the game.

As for simple and dynamic development, Lucas in Mother 3 went from being the world's biggest crybaby to its savior after the traumatic events which developed him into said hero.

author=Nightblade
"I'm offended"? Cute.

Yes? And thank you.

author=Nightblade
You never stated games don't NEED complex villains, you said they don't BENEFIT from them. Christ, you can't even get your own bullshit straight. But that's okay, keep changing your viewpoint to (poorly) deflect retorts. "Let's continue".

You're offended and on a rampage. The view had been widened to cover the term "benefit" since the lingering on this word is your entire castle of a point. Games, depending on the scenario, may benefit from a well-developed or complex villain. They don't need them. Many games would actually NOT benefit from them.

author=Nightblade
Again, you implied quite simply that games don't benefit from these things. WELL GUYS, I GUESS ALL THOSE RPGS YOUVE ENJOYED DONT BENEFIT FROM A GOOD STORY OR CHARACTERS.

I implied nothing. I said (fun) games don't benefit from complex villains. Which RPGs have I enjoyed? RPGs need good stories and good characters for the simple fact that they are not fun without them. If you read my entire post, you'd know that. Turn off caps lock please, it's less than a half-inch away from the other keys.

author=Nightblade
Then there's this: what about those adventure games people seem to like so much? Monkey Island, Phoenix Wright, and so fourth. I'm pretty certain those are games that stand on story, character interaction and puzzle solving.

If you read my entire post, you'd realize that games that are not gameplay-deep require good story-writing. If we're going to get word-specific here, I said (fun) games do not benefit from "complex" villains. Story is always fine, but not ALWAYS necessary.

author=Nightblade
This is the sound of you missing the point entirely. It's also the sound of you not grasping the meaning of your own words.

"Benefit"? I love when people use an entire argument based off a single term. Most of the games I enjoy do not "benefit" from complex villains. Not even all RPGs need them.

author=Nightblade
... I think you're the one who actually needs sleep this time. Seriously.

You asked if you were tired, and I said yes. You were, and you still haven't rested.

author=Nightblade
I think if I read any more of this, I'll suffer from a spontaneous brain hemorrhage.

You should read entire posts rather than single words before you have an E-panic attack. And get some sleep.