THE_GHOSTMAN'S PROFILE

author=LockeZ
I can occasionally cobble together something halfway decent

Prove it.

author=Nightblade
Why not? How is there no benefit? Explain.

You're offended because games do not need good villains. Let me open the view. Some games may "benefit" from "well-developed" villains. A truly fun game does not need this. Let's move on.

author=Nightblade
Games can tell stories. Some games meld stories and gameplay seamlessly with one another. Go play Half Life 2.

Some games tell good stories. Fun games don't need them. And no thanks, I'll pass on Half Life 2.

author=Nightblade
...What part of this makes even a tiny bit of sense? There is absolutely nothing to lose by being strong in both areas. Of course it's not necessary; but it sure as hell is nice when a game has both a strong story and is fun to play.

You're confused. Nobody said anything or hinted at any sort of "loss". You're confusing "Games don't need a good story to be fun" with "games suck if they have good story." Obviously I enjoy both, but this is about necessity, and I could not care less if Mario's parents were murdered by Koopa Troopas and Mario inherited his fire ball ability from the burning flower of (insert-made-up-name-to-sound-cool-here).

author=Nightblade
...Am I tired or something? What the hell is this?

I'm sorry, but if you're trying to explain something here; you're doing a very poor job of it.

Yes, you're tired and confused, and not doing a good job of reading. It's very direct and bluntly stated, let me try to explain it in even blunter terms. Because I say "games don't need good stories or complex characters", you immediately assume (and take offense to the notion) that I mean "GOOD STORIES SUCK". No.

author=eplipswich

author=The_Ghostman
So to NEED a good story, it is because you lack good gameplay. To NEED good gameplay, it is because you lack a good story.

I'm sorry, but this makes absolutely no sense at all. Who says a game with a good story will not have good gameplay? Likewise, does that mean a game with good gameplay will have a bad story?

Sure, games don't require complex villains, but if complex villains exist, it's of course all for the better. Majority of games are either great in gameplay or great in story, but there are definitely games that have both good gameplay and story, and those kind of games are what are truly great because it's the best of both worlds. And besides, we're talking about RPGs here. Gameplay is still the no. 1 prospect in RPGs, but if it is combined with great story, wouldn't it be all for the better? Just so you now, complex villains are part of character development, which is important in contributing to story.

If your game lack gameplay, of course you would improve the gameplay. It's kind of nonsensical if you say your game lacks gameplay, oh so you go for good story instead...Likewise for vice versa...

Don't be sorry. Nobody says or said a game with a good story will not have good gameplay. Nothing confusing about it.

I believe this was made clear, but I suppose I need to explain it more directly to you. If a game lacks fun gameplay, it NEEDS story, it does not HAVE story. And vice versa.

author=Jericho
You say that games don't benefit from complex villians, but stories do. The thing is, I would argue that most people, including myself, consider the writing as a significant factor when deciding whether or not an RPG is enjoyable. It is, after all, the stalest genre when it comes to gameplay. I would also say that, considering the length of most RPGs, a good story is imperative. You cannot keep the player playing if he does not care about what is going on.

This is saying gameplay can be thrown out the window, though. I am curious to what happens in Alter Aila Genesis, but cannot bring myself to play it anymore.

Saying that games do not need good writing to entertain is one thing. I disagree with regards to the RPG genre, but hey. The idea that they cannot benefit from it all is erroneous and assumes that the player is a half-dead neanderthal.

Also, am I correct that you are saying that a good story can make up for good gameplay, and yet games do not benefit from competent writing? Doesn't this mean that games do, in fact, benefit from good storytelling?

Clearly there is no actual disagreement. RPGs are among some of the most boring games in terms of gameplay, at least in my humble opinion, and that is why they are often saturated in story, almost to the point of whining in some cases. This goes back to the idea that bad gameplay needs good story, and bad story needs good gameplay. Meaning, a "not fun" game benefits from good writing. This simple idea is being ridiculously mistaken for meaning something else.

"Hard" games are just as tedious, if not more, than "Easy" games, although both terms are somewhat dependent on the player. The goal is create a challenging game.

author=Radnen
A "person" antagonist must be diametrically opposed to the ideals the protagonist stands up for. In that regard it doesn't matter how much "face time" the villain gets, the more the better. A good villain is someone who has justifiable intentions that are diametrically opposed to the player. If they are all so similar then there's no villain there.

Philosophy 101:
Do not speak of villains in terms of good vs. evil. Villains are not evil. There has been no single villain ever at any point in human history; nor in any book I've ever read that stood up for "evil" intentions. "Evilness" and "goodness" are constructs of society that engineer a binary reference scale we call "morality", it's no different than race or gender. You may use them as categorical terms, but not as a means to an end. This is due in large part to the notion that evilness and goodness change depending on who you are (the reference point or perspective on the matter).

To pull out the Philosophy 101 card when we're talking about game villains and/or character development in a 20 or less hour home-made game is somewhat ridiculous.This is about games. I don't play games with very interestingly complex villain/hero relationships, and that's probably because you don't require complex villain/hero relationships to establish an interesting game or plot. Mario and Bowser have more charm than most villains or heroes in games, and their relationship is based off of extremely simple terms.

Obviously "kick-the-puppy" villains are unwanted, but good games don't require complex villains. Stick them to books, movies, comics, manga, etc. But games don't need them. Games need gameplay.

post=Pokemaniac

post=eplipswich

post=Pokemaniac

post=The_Ghostman
I use only custom graphics,music, CBS, Pictures, and more. I do not lower my standards. If I cannot achieve something, I stop production, or I work until I can achieve it.

0 makerscore does not necessarily mean he hasn't worked on any external projects...It doesn't have to be rpgmaker.net specific...

I know. This just isn't a very effective attitude around here.

Thank goodness for here's sake that I'm not trying to "affect" anything with my personal preference to customizing everything. You shouldn't worry about it.