YLMIR'S PROFILE

author=Calicer
I was thinking logic pro might be ok as I wouldn't need to use VST plugins as they already have an ok sound font (I think it does at least). Does anyone have any experience with it?

First, I don't think Logic Pro uses soundfonts. Soundfonts is actually a quite old format which isn't standard anymore : the SF2 files just lack most of the features professional composers are looking for nowadays in modern sound libraries, and the .sfz files are impractical to work with when creating large and complex libraries with advanced features like true legato (it means the makers of the sound library actually recorded the transition between the notes when playing "attached" notes), round robin (having more than one sample per note, to avoid the "machine gun effect" when repeating the same note over and over - especially noticeable with staccato or spiccato samples) or dynamic layers (being able to crossfade between a section playing loud or softer), for example. I'm mainly thinking about virtual orchestras here, but some of these can apply to other virtual instruments as well.

On Mac, you actually won't be able to find VST Plugins (these are for Windows), but if I recall correctly you will be using AU (Audio Units) instead. I'm not a Mac user, so I'm not really sure. Anyway, most of the professional VSTs, including Kontakt or EWQL's plugins, have an AU version, so you should be fine with them, but for anything else, be sure to triple-check before buying if you can use it.

Finally, Logic Pro comes with some sounds, probably good enough to start doing some things, but most of the time, sounds that come with a DAW aren't great, or you'll lack something. Logic Pro seems to have woodwinds, but I haven't found any mention of a strings or brass section, for example. (source : http://www.apple.com/logic-pro/plugins-and-sounds/)

By the way, from what I've read on it, Logic Pro is a pretty good DAW, you should be fine with it.

author=Happy
Oh CineSymphony does seem rather good. Do you prefer using it over Kontakt orchestral libraries?
I might need to consider getting it... Someone lend me $2500 so I can get the full library. :)

I only rarely use Kontakt's factory instruments. The VSL instruments included in Kontakt have a good sound, but in terms of dynamic layers or round robins (see the first paragraph above if you don't know what these terms mean), they are way behind. You might be interested to know these VSL folders are actually a cut-down and outdated version of some of the libraries from... VSL.

When I talked about CineSymphony in my previous post, I wasn't referring to their big bundle, but to the smaller instrument called "CineSymphony Lite", which is also a cut-down version of their other products. And since it's much easier to get realistic sounding sections with it than with the Kontakt Factory instruments thanks to the various features I talked about, yes, I prefer using it. If you consider buying it (the Lite one), be aware you only have sections, no solo instruments. By the way, it's a sample library that runs into Kontakt, so you'll basically be using the same software.

If you want to take a look at other professional companies offering orchestral sound libraries, you might want to take a look at Spitfire Audio, Audiobro, Orchestral Tools, ProjectSam... Actually, there's a lot of other companies selling sound libraries, and you'll see most of these actually run in Kontakt (Full or Player) - this is why Kontakt is often recommended. ^^

By the way, given how expensive some of these libraries can be, I'd also recommend you to try before you buy when you can. If you can't, spend as much time as you need to sort out what are the pros and cons of each library, what makes it stand out, what are its biggest flaws, what exactly are the included instruments... You don't want to make music with something you aren't comfortable with, and you don't want to be disappointed when you'll install your new library because the piano you were interested in is actually not a part of this library. You can read reviews or opinions on forums, watch videos, listen to demos (preferably naked if these are available), take a look at the user manual (in music production, these manuals are actually helpful. And sometimes fun.)...

Another last piece of advice : When I (or someone else) talk about sample libraries, don't take it as an absolute truth. When it comes to sample libraries, making a choice isn't easy, and sometimes, personal tastes and experiences can influence one's decision. For example, I made the choice to ignore the lower price range because of some bad experiences I had, but I may have overlooked something interesting. In the list of sound libraries I'd buy if I ever win a million dollars, I have chosen some sample libraries not because of their reputation, but because I liked their sound more than the most popular libraries out there, but maybe you are looking for something else. Some libraries will sound rich, some will sound epic, some others will be subtle. There is (almost) no "good" or "bad" library : It all comes down to what you do with it.

Finally, when I say "It all comes down to what you do with it", it applies not only to what sound to want to achieve, but also how you use the library. Learn to know your tools, learn how to use them, and you'll be able to create realistic sounding tracks even without having that expensive library everyone dreams about. Here's an interesting read taking this subject further and giving some tips on orchestration and realism, since this post is already long enough : http://mattiaswestlund.net/?page_id=696

Sorry. I think I just got carried away while replying. xD

PS @ Beaker : Yay, I'm not the only Embertone fanboy out there ! \o/

I don't use notation software at all. I directly record and/or put notes in the piano roll of my DAW, Reaper, and use VST plugins for the sounds. Notation software isn't a practical way to work with MIDI, because you just can't use most of the features that permits the creation of realistic orchestra parts, you can't play that much with velocity, etc. I'm not saying you shouldn't use notation software - you just need to keep in mind that you can do much more MIDI editing (varying velocity, use the CC#1 or CC#11 to control your instruments' dynamics...) or mixing (EQing, reverberation, compression...) in other software. If you use notation software to compose, you should use something else to orchestrate, mix and master your tracks.

About the plugins and libraries I'd recommend, I won't go into more specific or expensive stuff, since I think most people here are looking for big sample libraries to cover all their basic needs, but if someone is interested in that, feel free to send me a PM ;)
- Kontakt is almost a must-have if you're interested in making music at a semi-professional or professional level. Not really because of the sounds included, but because more than 75% of the professional-grade libraries aren't compatible with the free Kontakt Player. It's quite pricey though, it costs €400. And by the way, if you can afford Kontakt, just don't buy it right now and spare some extra 100€ just to get Komplete, it's worth it : You get Kontakt, more synths than you'll probably need for now, Guitar Rig, a convolution reverb and some more sound libraries to use into Kontakt (I'm mainly thinking about the pianos, which became pretty nice with Komplete 10)
- For orchestral stuff, the most interesting sound library in an accessible price range is probably EWQL Symphonic Orchestra, Silver or Gold depending on what you can afford. There is often interesting sales on it, you should wait for it to be at -50% before buying it if you're interested. You'll also need an ILok dongle to make it run though.

If you can afford only one of these, I'd recommend Komplete if you're planning to make music in a really wide range of styles, or EWQL Symphonic Orchestra if you know you'll be doing mainly orchestral music (Kontakt/Komplete could work as well though). If you can't afford any of these, it might be a better idea to stick to free stuff : Kontakt will always be worth something in your collection, because you'll need it anyway to open other libraries. EWQLSO is less interesting on the long term, but I still use it sometimes, when I don't find what I'm looking for in my other libraries (and I have the Silver version, which is the most limited one) or if I want another sound. And most of the big instrument collections available for a lower price aren't great, even sticking to freebies like the Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra for the time being would probably be a better idea.
Also, I've read on Newgrounds some months ago that a new library made for beginners and people with a low budget was currently in the works at Versilian Studios. It's probably worth waiting to see how much it'll cost. By the way, these guys have some decent freebies as well. Another good resource for free instruments is here : http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/1317309

About the current challenge, I'll see if I can make something - I'd like to, but again, I'm not sure I'll have the time.

EDIT : Forgot a little something. If you're a student, CineSymphony Lite can be a good alternative to EWQL Symphonic Orchestra. Better sound quality, more realistic results, but a bit less diversity in sounds. It's the orchestral library I was using the most at the beginning of the SOS event. I got it at about €200 with an EDU discount.

Finally, I've been able to make a short theme for the challenge. This one is quite experimental to me (I only rarely do something in that style). I just hope it's not too short for you guys :p

http://rpgmaker.net/content/events/sos/files/Ch5_MrBadass.ogg

The tracks should be created specifically for this event and during the particular challenge's time frame. You can't just submit one of your earlier creations, like the guy called Matt_ did a while ago (you can see his submission up there rejected).

I'm not completely sure about that one. This guy actually uploaded two of his own tracks he reposted a lot of times on the forum, tracks which didn't even match the theme of the challenge running at the time. Maybe Happy could tell us what exactly is allowed ? :p

author=pianotm
Well, I absolutely loved it and doubt anyone listening is going to notice if there are any problems. That's typically how it is, though. We can't hear anything wrong with someone else's work, but we hear all the problems in our own work.

Thanks a lot ! :)
Actually, I was thinking this because I couldn't even keep my eyes open when I exported it - and it's usually not a good idea to mix your track when you're tired. ^^

author=nhubi
Ylmir I'll give it another day before I listen to yours just in case you do change it up

Good idea. Actually, I improved the mix a little bit this morning, but since the event is now closed, it's not possible to upload it here anymore.

By the way, I just noticed I sent the first version of my entry 20 minutes before the deadline displayed in the "Details" section of the event's page. It's the third time it happens to me in about a month. xD