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nhubi
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Closeauthor=Sated
I have nothing to say about this religious stuff other than that religion doesn't deserve our respect.
Some people say an asteroid is gonna come and ruin our shit...
NASA have a pretty good line on knowing what the fuck is going on in space. If anything dangerous were coming towards us, we would know about it waaaaaaaaaaaaay in advance. Unless NASA hold some really big, very obvious news conferences and tell us that something is gonna come and ruin our shit, nothing is coming to ruin our shit.Y'know, unless a meteor is magically formed in the sky by a silver-haired psychopath!
Do you think they'd tell us? I mean if they did detect an ELE in the form of an asteroid hurtling towards us on a collision course with no way to deflect it, because this isn't Armageddon or even Deep Impact (which was better, Morgan Freeman 'nuff said), and we have no way to stop something like that. The panic that would spread if the world really was coming to an end in a bang would be universal.
People would stop going to work, the rule of law would be forgotten, people would buy, scavenge or steal anything they think would save them, heading to high ground or deep caves depending on their particular delusion of safety. Though those with enough money might be able to get a seat on one of the few space worthy vehicles we've still got around and watch the Earth die from orbit, and then starve or suffocate. You'd also get a lot of tearful family/friend reconciliation which would be nice and some Kum ba yah singing on mountains and beaches but by and large I think we'd just collectively decide there are no consequences and it's about time to tell our boss what we really think of them.
I doubt very much such a secret could be kept given the number of telescopes pointing at the sky on a nightly basis and the number of amateur astronomers out there wanting to get their name on a piece of space rock, but I think they'd try.
This is of course discounting the silver haired psychopath.
How many Islamic nations have you been to, SnowOwl? How many people of Islamic faith do you know, personally? How many interactions with them have you had, that you are you basing these sweeping generalizations off of?
Shinan
4314
author=Corfaisus
There was a time when white people thought descendants of Africa would rape their white women because they were too akin to animals to stop themselves.
This time was a couple of weeks ago as I recall.
Alichains
637
author=Solitayre
How many Islamic nations have you been to, SnowOwl? How many people of Islamic faith do you know, personally? How many interactions with them have you had, that you are you basing these sweeping generalizations off of?
I'm pretty sure Snow Owl's entire experience with Islam comes from New Atheist sites.
Listening to people who have never been to the Middle East make sweeping generalizations about the Middle East is always something I enjoy!
author=Sated
NASA spend so much having to release statements about things not coming to hit us (and most of this is due to internet rumours spreading too quickly) that they make a point of stating that they'd be quick to announce something if they ever were worried about an impact capable of causing real damage.
Double bluff, methinks.
Joking aside, I'm not sure I'd want them to, I mean I'm all for being told about things I can fight or where I can make a difference, but a 10km wide hunk of iron rich space rock hurtling towards this fragile little biosphere at 25 km a second isn't something I can reasonable take on.
Then again there are some fairly nice bottles of wine I've been saving for a special occasion so maybe I would want to know so I could drink them as the meteors fall.
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
author=nhubiauthor=SatedDouble bluff, methinks.
NASA spend so much having to release statements about things not coming to hit us (and most of this is due to internet rumours spreading too quickly) that they make a point of stating that they'd be quick to announce something if they ever were worried about an impact capable of causing real damage.
Joking aside, I'm not sure I'd want them to, I mean I'm all for being told about things I can fight or where I can make a difference, but a 10km wide hunk of iron rich space rock hurtling towards this fragile little biosphere at 25 km a second isn't something I can reasonable take on.
Then again there are some fairly nice bottles of wine I've been saving for a special occasion so maybe I would want to know so I could drink them as the meteors fall.
I guess in an unavoidable situation that would end in global destruction, yeah, I'd like to live my last moments just living life like normal. Though if it's a bit smaller in scale, like "hey, a meteor is coming and the entire eastern U.S. is gonna get wrecked," I'd like to know so I can haul ass away from the blast zone.
author=nhubi
I don't know. In a situation like that, anyone remotely credible would be promptly dealt whit, one way or another (If it was me, I would happily shut up in exchange of one of those first row seats in the moon. screw you, guys). And every other nobody would be dismissed as a loon, of which there are plenty already. Who's to say they are not onto something as we speak? xD I think a "country killer" impact would be easily swept under the rug, specially if said country had no hope to handle that themselves. Better to deal with a crisis like that later rather than before. That way at least you'll have a few million people less to worry about. They could always avoid responsibility by claiming lack of resources to properly monitor space or something, earning themselves more money, and thus, more power.
So what I am really saying here is, be kind to flower girls, you never know if one of them could end up saving the world. =P
author=Feldschlacht IV
Listening to people who have never been to the Middle East make sweeping generalizations about the Middle East is always something I enjoy!
Right, like meeting the millions of Christians in Yemen that their Muslim neighbors not only aren't slaughtering, but cheerfully mingling with.
SnowOwl
5188
author=Solitayre
How many Islamic nations have you been to, SnowOwl? How many people of Islamic faith do you know, personally? How many interactions with them have you had, that you are you basing these sweeping generalizations off of?
author=AlichainsI might make generalisations, but I base them on actual experience. You two make assumptions taken completely out of the air, since you know almost nothing about me. There's no need to get defensive just because I don't hold the same opinion as you do. I haven't been mocking people, and neither should you.author=SolitayreI'm pretty sure Snow Owl's entire experience with Islam comes entirely from New Atheist sites.
How many Islamic nations have you been to, SnowOwl? How many people of Islamic faith do you know, personally? How many interactions with them have you had, that you are you basing these sweeping generalizations off of?
I have lived for a year in Turkey, I have also been to Albania, Indonesia and Tunisia for some time. I live in a neighbourhood where a large part of the inhabitants are muslim, I can't tell you a specific number but it's above 50%.
I have had friends in the past that were muslim, I don't anymore though.
The problem with a country killer size is where it hits, and if it airbursts or impacts. Get enough particulate matter into the atmosphere and we're headed for a impact winter and loss of viable crops and livestock, famine and war and other riders of the apocalypse.
I'll be nice to the flower girls.
edit: Red, I've got a spare room, you can haul your arse to Oz.
double edit: Yes Sated I know, that's why I said joking aside. :)
I'll be nice to the flower girls.
edit: Red, I've got a spare room, you can haul your arse to Oz.
double edit: Yes Sated I know, that's why I said joking aside. :)
author=SnowOwl
I might make generalisations, but I base them on actual experience. You two make assumptions taken completely out of the air, since you know almost nothing about me. There's no need to get defensive just because I don't hold the same opinion as you do. I haven't been mocking people, and neither should you.
I have lived for a year in Turkey, I have also been to Albania, Indonesia and Tunisia for some time. I live in a neighbourhood where a large part of the inhabitants are muslim, I can't tell you a specific number but it's above 50%.
I have had friends in the past that were muslim, I don't anymore though.
Okay, so with what I would consider quite a bit of experience with people of Islamic faith, you're really comfortable with the statement 'Most Islamic men would beat their wives if they could get away with it?"
SnowOwl
5188
author=SolitayreI'm not sure who you're quoting, but it's not me. Either way, not all Islamic men beat their wives. It's not like Muslims are born wife beaters, either. The problem, as I have said, is the religion. It teaches them to treat their wives, and other women too, in a certain way. It doesn't necessarily equate beating them, but they sure as hell aren't treated like equals. There's also the fact that in a lot of places a man owns their woman, and so can do whatever the fuck they want to her.
Okay, so with what I would consider quite a bit of experience with people of Islamic faith, you're really comfortable with the statement 'Most Islamic men would beat their wives if they could get away with it?"
Having that kind of power over another person can turn even the best of people into shit, and it's all thanks to wonderful Islam.
author=SnowOwl
I'm not sure who you're quoting, but it's not me.
SnowOwl
Muslims treat people of other religions and their women somewhat better in western countries, but make no mistake, that is ONLY because they can't get away with it because they are not in the majority, and because there are laws which prevent them from kicking the shit out of their woman for not following their orders.
I just want us to be clear about what you actually mean. There are well-documented human rights abuses in a lot of countries, many religiously motivated, but your original statement seemed to imply that, in general, Muslims would always become violent against women and non-believers given half the chance. I don't believe that's true at all.
Hold the presses; I think there's some validity in what SnowOwl is saying, or at least what I think he means, especially as it seems as though he does have experience in Muslim communities, which I apologize for presuming otherwise.
I think it is wrong to say 'Islamic people always do this' or 'Islamic people always want to do that', however, contrary to what some people might tell you, culture is not above reproach or unassailable, and it's subject to rightful criticism as much as anything else.
In this case, religion is a huge part of culture, and while the grand majority of Islamic people are peaceful and just want to live their lives, there is still a sizable amount (mostly concentrated in the Middle East itself) that use Islam as fuel for violence, and there are many, many more worldwide who are peaceful, but they hold views and values that don't fly with Western sensibilities, like the subjugation of women and the refusal to integrate into 'modern' society.
All of everything I mentioned above comes from Islam's effect on the culture. So while it's wrong to say 'This is Islam's fault!!!' I do think that a serious discussion and examination on the effect of Islam on the cultures who follow needs to continue happening worldwide. The Quran isn't exactly filled with hugs and kisses on every page, and there are enough people who believe in the worst parts of it to the letter that the above conversation needs to keep happening.
Culture is not above reproach.
I think it is wrong to say 'Islamic people always do this' or 'Islamic people always want to do that', however, contrary to what some people might tell you, culture is not above reproach or unassailable, and it's subject to rightful criticism as much as anything else.
In this case, religion is a huge part of culture, and while the grand majority of Islamic people are peaceful and just want to live their lives, there is still a sizable amount (mostly concentrated in the Middle East itself) that use Islam as fuel for violence, and there are many, many more worldwide who are peaceful, but they hold views and values that don't fly with Western sensibilities, like the subjugation of women and the refusal to integrate into 'modern' society.
All of everything I mentioned above comes from Islam's effect on the culture. So while it's wrong to say 'This is Islam's fault!!!' I do think that a serious discussion and examination on the effect of Islam on the cultures who follow needs to continue happening worldwide. The Quran isn't exactly filled with hugs and kisses on every page, and there are enough people who believe in the worst parts of it to the letter that the above conversation needs to keep happening.
Culture is not above reproach.
SnowOwl
5188
I drew you a quick diagram, where one axis is the percentage of muslims that beat their wives, call this axis "b%". The other axis is how closely they follow the teachings of Islam, you could also call it their strength of faith or something, call this axis "F". There's no numbers here, because it would be impossible to get any certain statistics, but basically the stronger the muslims faith, the more likely it is that he will beat the shit out of his wife for something.
Obviously it won't ever reach 100% because some people will resist brainwashing, or just have very obedient wives, or just never get the chance/get mad enough, or heck maybe he's just that rare nice guy. It would also take a tremendous idiot to believe everything in the Quran 100%, which I don't think ever happens to a person that would live long enough to get a wife.
Obviously it won't ever reach 100% because some people will resist brainwashing, or just have very obedient wives, or just never get the chance/get mad enough, or heck maybe he's just that rare nice guy. It would also take a tremendous idiot to believe everything in the Quran 100%, which I don't think ever happens to a person that would live long enough to get a wife.
Nobody said culture is unassailable, the problems with those countries have been well-documented and I don't think anyone is trying to say it's all sunshine and rainbows over there. But propagating the notion that your Islamic neighbors secretly want to kill you is just toxic, inflammatory prejudice.
author=Solitayre
Nobody said culture is unassailable, the problems with those countries have been well-documented and I don't think anyone is trying to say it's all sunshine and rainbows over there. But propagating the notion that your Islamic neighbors secretly want to kill you is just toxic, inflammatory prejudice.
I agree (I definitely agree), but if the original argument is 'how does religion influence behavior', or 'how closely can you actually follow your religion while not doing X bad thing', then the conversation is actually going to be something different.
