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WHAT ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW?
Posts
TheNecromancer
3160
TheNecromancer
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ClosePeople only bitch about games inspired by games they don't like. They have no problem with games inspired by good games they do like. All this coming from a guy who is making a 2k3 RTP epic about dragons. Yeah.
Regardless of how we might feel about a game, it's just straight up douchebag behavior to go on a crusade to shit on a game because you don't like it or it's inspiration. Like we fucking owe you anything and need to be making games you like. Get a fucking grip.
Regardless of how we might feel about a game, it's just straight up douchebag behavior to go on a crusade to shit on a game because you don't like it or it's inspiration. Like we fucking owe you anything and need to be making games you like. Get a fucking grip.
Regardless of how we might feel about a game, it's just straight up douchebag behavior to go on a crusade to shit on a game because you don't like it or it's inspiration. Like we fucking owe you anything and need to be making games you like. Get a fucking grip.
This is the exact same response I got when I gave a bad review of Forever's End ages ago. God forbid two people don't like the god forsaken game.
"Going on a crusade" =/= One guy leaving like two crappy comments.
Listen to yourself. Some people don't like the bloody game, who gives a fuck.
@Max We all have different opinions - allowing someone to have an opinion without throwing in your own thought wouldn't necessarily be ethically lax. In my mind at least. Sometimes people just aren't ready to hear what you think! In real life, I am definitely in the minority in the way I think so it's nice having my thoughts being kind of prevalent on RMN.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=Link_2112
All this coming from a guy who is making a 2k3 RTP epic about dragons. Yeah.
About a dragon. And even then, it's more focused on the villain and diversity, but thanks for the shout-out.
author=slashphoenix
And Corf mocking a game for being about saving the world is... like... some level of meta-blindness that I can't comprehend.
The difference is that my games don't revolve around the childish notion of "saving the world"/"being a hero" and the personal, unfulfilled, Mary Sue power-fantasy that comes with it.
Mr_SuNa
50
I was wondering if anybody would like to be a scout in Settlement: Zombie Apocalypse.
We recently had our scout drop out due to technical difficulties so we have the spot open.
The game is a mix of conversation like mafia and story like Gourd's Quest. It's lots of fun! I promise!
We recently had our scout drop out due to technical difficulties so we have the spot open.
The game is a mix of conversation like mafia and story like Gourd's Quest. It's lots of fun! I promise!
Having and expressing opinions and tastes is a good thing. So is tact.
Criticizing a game on RMN can be done on the respective game page. That's one of their purposes. Dragging such things into a "What are you thinking about" thread is simply unnecessary. And aggressively provoking others over it should be a no-go no matter what. Just calm down a bit and be glad you are all allowed to be different.
Edit: And I got ninja'ed. Whatever. Read the above post, people.
Criticizing a game on RMN can be done on the respective game page. That's one of their purposes. Dragging such things into a "What are you thinking about" thread is simply unnecessary. And aggressively provoking others over it should be a no-go no matter what. Just calm down a bit and be glad you are all allowed to be different.
Edit: And I got ninja'ed. Whatever. Read the above post, people.
author=Max McGee
And, in the end, I absolutely want to minimize the time spent arguing on the internet. But in spite of that I can't bring myself to just continuously smile and nod in the face of positions and attitudes I find pretty abhorrent: doing so feels ethically lax.
"It's about ethics in rmn posts."
Also, Geez! You almost sound like a SJW yourself, just change "abhorrent" for "problematic" up there. Haha! ...All joking aside. I understand where you are coming from, but I don't feel nearly as 'strongly' about it as you do. Most of the "positions and attitudes" that you refer to can be easily brushed off as: "Shit people say". Sometimes people make poor choices of words that they would be happy to correct, or they simply don't care about it and just want to vent a little. Other times they assume everyone will automatically understand the nuance in the points they're trying to make. And yet other times they're just being facetious or are flat out trolling. I'd be more concerned if those "positions and attitudes" came up in the midst of a more 'serious' discussion and not here in Welp.
SnowOwl
5188
I am thinking about how annoying it is to get this SJW thing crammed down the throat by angry people, demanding everyone see them every time I go to any site with discussion about anything. We get it people, you are special snowflakes but you're really not helping your case (whatever that even is, I can't really tell) by constantly steering any conversation you join into that territory. Whoops, did I steer the conversation that way now?
I started out neutral to "the cause" but I'm slowly getting more and more annoyed with internets people calling themselves SJWs or whatever they call themselves. It might be a very vocal minority but they're really ruining mine and probably alot of others peoples conversations by constantly dragging whatever inequality that remotely has something to do with the topic at hand.
Talking about game design? Cue SJW coming in and spamming about how game designers are mainly men and how this needs to change right now or else.
Save your warrior spirit for somewhere you are actually needed, okay?
I started out neutral to "the cause" but I'm slowly getting more and more annoyed with internets people calling themselves SJWs or whatever they call themselves. It might be a very vocal minority but they're really ruining mine and probably alot of others peoples conversations by constantly dragging whatever inequality that remotely has something to do with the topic at hand.
Talking about game design? Cue SJW coming in and spamming about how game designers are mainly men and how this needs to change right now or else.
Save your warrior spirit for somewhere you are actually needed, okay?
TheNecromancer
3160
Not sure what this post has to do with anything http://rpgmaker.net/games/4056/reviews/1731/?post=377341#post377341
I don't have a problem with not liking a game or genre. I hate a few myself. But I don't act like a dick to people who choose to make those games and the people that like them. Making some little dinky mockup that hardly proves any point. He put effort into shitting on what other people like. There's no need for that.
It's all a matter of perspective. You like to go after people who use rips. To that I would say "who gives a fuck". We all choose things to speak out on, and I choose 'being a dick on RMN'.
author=PizzaThere can be small crusades. It wasn't enough to for him to post it on the game page, he had to post here for 9 more people to see. In terms of expressing an opinion about a game on RMN I would call that a crusade.Regardless of how we might feel about a game, it's just straight up douchebag behavior to go on a crusade to shit on a game because you don't like it or it's inspiration. Like we fucking owe you anything and need to be making games you like. Get a fucking grip.This is the exact same response I got when I gave a bad review of Forever's End ages ago. God forbid two people don't like the god forsaken game.
"Going on a crusade" =/= One guy leaving like two crappy comments.
Listen to yourself. Some people don't like the bloody game, who gives a fuck.
I don't have a problem with not liking a game or genre. I hate a few myself. But I don't act like a dick to people who choose to make those games and the people that like them. Making some little dinky mockup that hardly proves any point. He put effort into shitting on what other people like. There's no need for that.
It's all a matter of perspective. You like to go after people who use rips. To that I would say "who gives a fuck". We all choose things to speak out on, and I choose 'being a dick on RMN'.
author=suzy_cheesedreams
I liked (what I played) of Yume Nikki, which I know is not what you're taking issue with but all the fangames made from that. One that I looked at seemed pretty lame (adding really obvious drug references like mushrooms and weed leaves *eye roll*). I liked the concept, tone and graphics of Yume Nikki a lot, but I would never want to make a game like that. Mostly because I know it would be really bad; throwing in x amount of "weird" stuff and endless wandering does not a good game make. I liked Yume Nikki because of the strange subtext that was ambiguous enough to be taken as general subconscious fears/thoughts (like the giant penis monster thing) although they could also be interpreted as being specific events relating to the protagonist. I thought it was cleverly done but I don't think I could emulate that. So I don't know really why there are so many fangames. I guess because they have a less restrictive logic because they're based in dreamworlds so basically "anything goes"?
What really pisses me off is insipid "cute" anime heroines in (mostly horror, but other genres too) games. Pigeon-toed, clueless, dazed looking girls dressed as children dressed up as women style characters. I just hate them. If you must have a female child protagonist in a horror game, why not a Ghibli style girl who is resourceful, mature and intelligent?
edit: granted, I'm being pretty judgemental seeing as I haven't really PLAYED any of these games. But if I see a cutesy "little scared girl" character in a horror, it's disconcerting and puts me off playing the game.
Yeah, that was my thought when I made the story of Thanoy and Wetss - Emi was never, ever going to be a scared little innocent child. Even though she's a little girl she's been dealing with the spirit world since she was born, so she's not scared easily and is the one in power (except in certain circumstances). Indeed, the most she is scared is in Wetss when her father has disappeared and that's because someone she's always depended on has just suddenly vanished, not because she can't take care of herself and needs to lean on him.
As per OneShot, you guys would be surprised as to the detail put into the graphics. I know it looks very simple but it's not (I had the opportunity recently to use them). There's a lot of interesting graphic use and more than just one or two tiles for things. For example, ground tiles weren't just one tile - it was about 12 tiles that would allow for more detailed looking floors. Same with walls, decorations and the like. I learned a lot from working with it, I'll say that now.
And that's just the graphics. I rather enjoyed the game itself. It has some issues - the inability to play it again and the lack of direction in some of the interactions that were required to continue. That said, it's a decent game. I definitely don't see it as a Yume Nikki clone.
January is too early to find hot cross buns in your local bakery and easter eggs in the market....and yet I just did.
Sheesh.
Sheesh.
suzy_cheesedreams
1480
@Liberty, is that the Map Madness games your talking about? I haven't played those yet. Emi sounds like a good antidote though to the "frightened, squealing girl in horror game" trope.
...Isn't berating a "Yume Nikki clone" a ridiculous thing to do on a site filled with Mario & Final Fantasy fangames? How is it any more illegitimate than those? Why attack a game for having supposedly lazy, derivative graphics when there are lots of games here using rips? Obviously I don't mean those games are bad by default or anything because of the rips/fangame aspect. It just seems unfair to criticise one game (on the gamepage) for something that many other games do.
...Isn't berating a "Yume Nikki clone" a ridiculous thing to do on a site filled with Mario & Final Fantasy fangames? How is it any more illegitimate than those? Why attack a game for having supposedly lazy, derivative graphics when there are lots of games here using rips? Obviously I don't mean those games are bad by default or anything because of the rips/fangame aspect. It just seems unfair to criticise one game (on the gamepage) for something that many other games do.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
Everyone and their grandma making clones of a game that had no inherent purpose but to be "weird" means a serious stagnation in the creative aspect of indie game design. See all the simplistic retro/notretro (retro wasn't that simple, ask TFT) games? It's like all you need is hit detection and you've got a masterpiece nowadays.
The world is one big pixel! Also, this is what The Used's "Lies for the Liars" album cover looked like before a hit of coke.
I made that "mockup" to show how goddamn easy it is to create something "weird" and "makes you think" or some shit. Here, take two seconds and come up with a single idea. Now take a few parts away from the storyline's execution so that it seems like your game is more fantastic than it really is. That's Yume Nikki. That's The Way. It's not amazing if all you did was say "do it yourself" with the storyline. Hero's Realm didn't have a storyline, but it understood what it was. It was that "no story needed" S/NES era gameplay-comes-first level of design and it worked for it. You can look back and think that maybe the grinding was a little tedious, but it wasn't trying to lie to you and make you think it's some sort of brilliant display on the very essence of existence or something. It wasn't trying to be some movie school undergrad's experimental film.
It's the same as a grey-scale movie of someone frying an egg and calling it "deep" just because it's grey. Maybe come back when you've actually got something to say?
No, here, let me pitch you an idea right off the top of my head, no stopping. From now on I'm not even going to correct any spelling or punctuation erros. Here we go.
enter. enter.
You're a boy trapped into a * inside a box and you don't know how you go thta*( there. You find a bug that tells you that your life is like it * it's own and you have to find your way out. The bug hag* has wings and you don't. How do you ge * escape the bos* box? Fuck. No seriously, fuck. You have to find a portal to another dimension and find soment* someone to share an intimate moment with t* to escape the box. Big reveal: the box is a stagnant life and the only freedom is trying something new. Now take two details aw* out of that and you've got a game.
Done.
Gimme $50 for that solid gold nugget.
To be honest, I'm all kinds of adrenaline jumpy and I tend to go back and fix things even when I try not to, so that last experiment was only about half right.
The world is one big pixel! Also, this is what The Used's "Lies for the Liars" album cover looked like before a hit of coke.
I made that "mockup" to show how goddamn easy it is to create something "weird" and "makes you think" or some shit. Here, take two seconds and come up with a single idea. Now take a few parts away from the storyline's execution so that it seems like your game is more fantastic than it really is. That's Yume Nikki. That's The Way. It's not amazing if all you did was say "do it yourself" with the storyline. Hero's Realm didn't have a storyline, but it understood what it was. It was that "no story needed" S/NES era gameplay-comes-first level of design and it worked for it. You can look back and think that maybe the grinding was a little tedious, but it wasn't trying to lie to you and make you think it's some sort of brilliant display on the very essence of existence or something. It wasn't trying to be some movie school undergrad's experimental film.
It's the same as a grey-scale movie of someone frying an egg and calling it "deep" just because it's grey. Maybe come back when you've actually got something to say?
No, here, let me pitch you an idea right off the top of my head, no stopping. From now on I'm not even going to correct any spelling or punctuation erros. Here we go.
enter. enter.
You're a boy trapped into a * inside a box and you don't know how you go thta*( there. You find a bug that tells you that your life is like it * it's own and you have to find your way out. The bug hag* has wings and you don't. How do you ge * escape the bos* box? Fuck. No seriously, fuck. You have to find a portal to another dimension and find soment* someone to share an intimate moment with t* to escape the box. Big reveal: the box is a stagnant life and the only freedom is trying something new. Now take two details aw* out of that and you've got a game.
Done.
Gimme $50 for that solid gold nugget.
To be honest, I'm all kinds of adrenaline jumpy and I tend to go back and fix things even when I try not to, so that last experiment was only about half right.
serious stagnation in the creative aspect of indie game design
So, have you been following the indie scene?
At all?
I made that "mockup" to show how goddamn easy it is to create something "weird" and "makes you think" or some shit.
It isn't easy to create something that makes people think. I have experience developing games like this, and I've only met with (imo) half-success in actually conveying the point to people. It isn't as simple as scribbling some graphics together and typing out cryptic dialogue.
You're a boy trapped into a * inside a box and you don't know how you go thta*( there. You find a bug that tells you that your life is like it * it's own and you have to find your way out. The bug hag* has wings and you don't. How do you ge * escape the bos* box? Fuck. No seriously, fuck. You have to find a portal to another dimension and find soment* someone to share an intimate moment with t* to escape the box. Big reveal: the box is a stagnant life and the only freedom is trying something new. Now take two details aw* out of that and you've got a game.
Done.
What is this even supposed to mean? That you're angry? I'm pretty certain the games you mentioned weren't created by writing run on sentences.
emmych
817
my ribs
if you had my ribs in this trying time you would also be thinking about your ribs
*doubles over in pain*
Costco, mon/ma ami(e). They sell Christmas stuff starting in August.
Holiday marketing is ridonk and i don't pretend to understand it. *hollers about holiday capitalism*
if you had my ribs in this trying time you would also be thinking about your ribs
*doubles over in pain*
author=nhubi
January is too early to find hot cross buns in your local bakery and easter eggs in the market....and yet I just did.
Sheesh.
Costco, mon/ma ami(e). They sell Christmas stuff starting in August.
Holiday marketing is ridonk and i don't pretend to understand it. *hollers about holiday capitalism*
suzy_cheesedreams
1480
I totally understand disliking pretentious art games that are less meaningful or intelligent than they want the player to believe. Obviously making some gloomy chipsets and slapping a morose, wannabe existential story to the game does not automatically make it good.
I don't think Yume Nikki has broad appeal, so it's understandable that you might dislike it for lacking a story, or for being weird for the sake of weird (in your opinion), or whatever. I like its concept & design however and I'm not sure if there was a game like it before it was released, so I think it stands well as a decent "weird game".
But I understand/agree with your attitude somewhat (but not with how you've expressed it...); Yume Nikki laid out a formula that is easily imitable because you can cram whatever weird crap into the game you want and just say "it's a hellish dream world, so yeah". Some people might get lazy with this concept while others will think of ways to justify the weird content through character design and story. So... yeah. It's just the same as any other type of influential game. There'll be shitty games and there'll be cool games that etched out their own style and flavour while still being heavily inspired by something. That's the nature of creativity...
I don't think there are enough Yume Nikki imitators to warrant the idea that they're somehow related to causing the indie game design scene to stagnate... they're just a niche-within-a-niche group of people like the ones who make DQ/FF/Mother/Mario/SMT/whatever else games.
I don't think Yume Nikki has broad appeal, so it's understandable that you might dislike it for lacking a story, or for being weird for the sake of weird (in your opinion), or whatever. I like its concept & design however and I'm not sure if there was a game like it before it was released, so I think it stands well as a decent "weird game".
But I understand/agree with your attitude somewhat (but not with how you've expressed it...); Yume Nikki laid out a formula that is easily imitable because you can cram whatever weird crap into the game you want and just say "it's a hellish dream world, so yeah". Some people might get lazy with this concept while others will think of ways to justify the weird content through character design and story. So... yeah. It's just the same as any other type of influential game. There'll be shitty games and there'll be cool games that etched out their own style and flavour while still being heavily inspired by something. That's the nature of creativity...
I don't think there are enough Yume Nikki imitators to warrant the idea that they're somehow related to causing the indie game design scene to stagnate... they're just a niche-within-a-niche group of people like the ones who make DQ/FF/Mother/Mario/SMT/whatever else games.
author=emmych
Costco, mon/ma ami(e). They sell Christmas stuff starting in August.
Holiday marketing is ridonk and i don't pretend to understand it. *hollers about holiday capitalism*
Yet another reason to be glad I'm not a costco customer :)
Sorry about your ribs though, my dear.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=PizzaI made that "mockup" to show how goddamn easy it is to create something "weird" and "makes you think" or some shit.It isn't easy to create something that makes people think. I have experience developing games like this, and I've only met with (imo) half-success in actually conveying the point to people. It isn't as simple as scribbling some graphics together and typing out cryptic dialogue.
Of course there are going to be people that don't grasp what you're trying to tell them; that very rarely happens. I remember the interview with the guy that made Braid and how he was upset that, although he got amazing scores and positive reviews, no one ever seemed to really "get" his game.
Hell, the fact that Link_2112 summed up my game as "2k3 RTP epic about dragons" just goes to show that there's been some disconnect there as well (assuming he's actually taken the time to check out the demo).
What I mean are people that clearly have either no or a wafer-thin discernible purpose behind what they're doing. If your player goes into a game and leaves it thinking "what was the point of that?", your game either failed to tell its story in the most basest way or you just didn't have anything at all consistent in the experience to give any indication that you weren't just pulling shit out of your ass.
Your games (while short and simple) I felt told enough through it's design to give them a sense of "I know what the fuck I'm doing". Locations were actually there instead of floating landmasses for God only knows what reason, which seems to be par for the course for these "artsy" Yume Nikki spinoffs. Your themes of having to push oneself against the grindstone in order to make it in the world and facing the fear that you're literally nothing in a sea of "normality" really do hit home and give the viewer an insight into your own struggles and views on society. The quote "Will you cry, little spaceman?" hammers that home potently. I answered no to this and felt like I got the full brunt of what it means to be buried by the wave of progress.
