WHAT ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW?

I thought Auron was so cool when I was a kid... actually, I played it again recently, and while Tidus was annoying at times, I didn't mind him nearly as much. I definitely liked how both him and Yuna were dealing with issues they had with their parents, but they were totally different kinds of issues.

I really need to get FFX-2 sometime... I never got a chance to play it.

author=slash
I thought Auron was so cool when I was a kid... actually, I played it again recently, and while Tidus was annoying at times, I didn't mind him nearly as much. I definitely liked how both him and Yuna were dealing with issues they had with their parents, but they were totally different kinds of issues.

I really need to get FFX-2 sometime... I never got a chance to play it.

Just don't go into expecting another Final Fantasy game. It's... quite different in both setting and story. Battles are great.


For one, it's a lot peppier and laid-back. There's no end of the world to worry about. It's more about rebuilding and exploring the world, helping it get back onto it's feet and some personal quests thrown in than finding and defeating a big bad. It's what you'd expect if you kept playing after you saved the world, basically.

It gets a lot of hate from people because you only play females, said females are cool with their own bodies and wear cool clothes (part of the battle system is donning different outfits. Think FFV in that aspect), the story isn't about world saving (it was unexpected - most people wanted another save the world plot and didn't get it) and some of the canon stuff that happens 'in the future' some fans didn't like.

Honestly, it's a pity it received so much hate because it was a step in a different direction for Square and they could have done with a few more games like it instead of retreading the same stuff over and over again. It was progress from both a story-telling and equality pov, much earlier on than Lightning appearing on the scene.

It also gets a lot of hate because it abandoned the infinitely superior CTB system in favor of reverting back to ATB, the outfits are somehow despite all odds even more horrid than the original game's outfits, and Yuna's personality was completely replaced with what might as well be a totally different character who inhabits the same body. And also she uses pistols now. It also was very low budget - I'd estimate that more than 90% of the zones and enemies in the game are reused assets from FF10. And the music is ultra bad.

That's not to say it didn't also have really good points. The job system is great, it probably has the best ATB in the Final Fantasy series, and you don't have to listen to Tidus or Wakka.

Do you even know what the word Mary Sue means? Yuna was weak, naive, obedient to a fault, and extremely scared of change. She depended on the people around her for everything from fighting to telling her what to do, and even telling her what to believe. Even in battle she was a healer and a summoner, which made her completely designed around letting everyone else do all the work. A Mary Sue is a self-insert character with no weaknesses who solves all the problems - she was just about the farthest thing from that. Her entire character design was nothing but weaknesses.

Over the course of FF10 she overcame some of them. But then when she finally overcame her greatest weakness and chose her own beliefs, the result was that the person who led her through all those trials and whom she'd come to love turned to dust in her hands as a direct result. The idea that this would result in her becoming a pop music idol is beyond ludicrous, causing most people to realize pretty goddamn quickly that FF10-2's story was trash.

@LockeZ See, that's why I never thought she was a Mary Sue... I guess I habitually accepted that she was when some people told me that!

I, uh, see what you're saying about the pop music idol haha! I had kind of forgotten that part pretty much because I figured it wasn't too big of a stretch for her to seek a role in the public eye again. An idol is definitely pretty extreme though.

author=LockeZ
Do you even know what the word Mary Sue means? Yuna was weak, naive, obedient to a fault, and extremely scared of change. She depended on the people around her for everything from fighting to telling her what to do, and even telling her what to believe. Even in battle she was a healer and a summoner, which made her completely designed around letting everyone else do all the work. A Mary Sue is a self-insert character with no weaknesses who solves all the problems - she was just about the farthest thing from that. Her entire character design was nothing but weaknesses.

Over the course of FF10 she overcame some of them. But then when she finally overcame her greatest weakness and chose her own beliefs, the result was that the person who led her through all those trials and whom she'd come to love turned to dust in her hands as a direct result. The idea that this would result in her becoming a pop music idol is beyond ludicrous, causing most people to realize pretty goddamn quickly that FF10-2's story was trash.

Uh... you mustn've played any of the game at all ever.

Yuna didn't become a pop idol or throw that concert.* Leblanc was posing as Yuna, using her name (and fame) to rake in some quick cash using a concert and to try to get the attention of Nooj (one of the other main characters of the game who heads a faction).

Later on in the game she does throw a concert to make money for the rebuilding effort, but she starts off as very reluctant to do so. Eventually she talks herself into it (the others help too) and finally throws a concert that is far more to her style (What Can I do For You? vs 1000 Words).

Honestly... >.<;

Oh, and characters grow. This game was set a few YEARS after the ending of the last. It's no surprise that she actually gained some confidence in herself and her abilities, especially since she's been kicking it with her super-awesome cousin and Paine - neither of whom lack in self-confidence and both of whom support her and consider her their leader. Growth. Do you even?

The more you know. :/


* So many people use that point to go 'ugh, square why you fuck up my ynah she not liek dat she preshus little girl who gotta be protepted'. Seriously, they don't even realise how creepy they sound when they say that, too - as though people never change after traumatic experiences like, oh, losing the love of your life in the place of your own life? (Well, and finding out he was dead all along and that your mentor was also dead all along and they were both shadows of the past).

Not to mention how wrong them using that 'fact' to point out the 'fact' that square 'fucked up' is. >.<;

author=Liberty
Oh, and characters grow. This game was set a few YEARS after the ending of the last. It's no surprise that she actually gained some confidence in herself and her abilities, especially since she's been kicking it with her super-awesome cousin and Paine - neither of whom lack in self-confidence and both of whom support her and consider her their leader. Growth. Do you even?

Not to mention those few years give a strong character plenty of time to move on. Then when we first start to see the sphere's of Vegnagun, Yuna starts to become super obsessed and unpredictable, which is what you would expect of somebody when old wounds are opened again.

Yuna has no control over what the Dress Sphere does. It's part of the power of the Sphere to have that persona in it. She didn't say 'oh, let me buy this dress sphere with an idol in it lol'. She found it and used it just like she found the weapons from the last game and used them... even the ridiculous ones. Seriously, you can't make an argument about that. It's exactly like FFV where you had to suffer through looking ridiculous in the Tamer outfit (sheep clothes? seriously?) in order to TAME ANIMALS!! She used the power of the bard (basically) but had to look like a pop star to do it. Not Yuna's choice.

Uh, no actually. People losing people can change drastically. When my aunt lost her husband of 10 years - and trust me they were deeply in love - she changed within six months. She became a pole dancer and she now is an instructor at a fitness gym... just three years later. Before that she was very meek, quiet and mild, never one to stray to far from her shell. We were a bit shocked by the transformation but she loves what she does and she's happy. I'm sure she's also sad about the loss of her husband and cries often, but she knew that life is more than dwelling on past loves.

Yuna is a person who changed. You cannot say 'oh but she's so shy and quiet and she would never-'
Shut up. She did. It's canon and it's good character building. She learned to remember fondly the people she lost - you see in in the first game where she talked about her father and her 'uncles'. She wasn't emo, mopey or upset. She was brave. She faced the knowledge of her own death with courage and I very much doubt she would then crumble due to the death of either. She may have been depressed for a while - we do not see that. The game jumps forward two years. She learned to live and love life and give her all.

You can't say she wouldn't because she did. That is a thing she did do and it's brilliant because THAT IS YUNA. Yuna is the person who gives herself to others. She is the person who sees others' hurts and tries to heal them. She gets over her own pain and carries on and maybe she cries at night where others can't see, but during the day she smiles and laughs and is there for people. She moved onward and upward and if all you think people do is crumple and die when a loved one dies then you only know of one kind of person.

Real talk - I have an emotional issue where I don't cry over loved ones' deaths. Not in front of others. Oh, I'll cry over fictional characters, but I retreat in the face of real life emotion because I do not want the world to see me crying and I just withdraw instead. I go numb. When my father died, I went numb. I didn't cry at his funeral. And I got up and went on with my life, laughing and having fun. Sure, I still cry when I'm alone sometimes but I didn't just crumple into a ball. Neither did my mother.

People move or they die. Fact. Plain and simple. You don't have to love again, but if you stop then you will just fade away and die.

And Yuna moved on. She moved on and lived and that is why I love her character in X-2 - because she loved and lost and kept moving forward with a smile and love in her every step. That is what her whole character arc is about; a woman who learned to love, who lost that love and who grew into someone who became more than she was before because of that love. Tidus's death was necessary for her character arc to continue forward and enable her to build into a well-rounded character. She used the memories of him and his support - as evidenced by her inner monologues to him during the game - to continue to grow and move forward in her life.

Liberty, I never said it was impossible she could change. No one would ever say that, that's stupid. I don't know who you're arguing with.

I said it was unbelievably bad writing to have it happen off camera between games. I also said that it's bad writing to have the main character change in a way that affects the entire tone of the game when you're making a sequel to a popular story. The reason people buy a sequel to something is because they liked the first one and they want more of that. If you change stuff, it had better be the stuff people complained about, not the stuff they enjoyed. That's basic. If you are going to do something like that, you need to spend a large amount of effort to justify it to the audience, because they are going to be resistant.

Also yes you are correct that FF is full of dumb ridiculous things. I didn't forget about fighting with stuffed animals and beach balls. Yuna and Auron were the serious characters in the first game though, so removing them both (and having no villain or conflict for most of the game) caused a HUGE tone shift. I wonder if they thought Paine could make up for it?

@pianotm: There's nothing wrong with what you're saying, I guess depression is mostly just the most simple and obvious outcome you'd want to use in a sequel that takes place several years later, as it would justify her not doing anything or growing during that time. Any more complex reaction would need to be much more well-explained. Nothing about her character "growth" was well-explained in any way. I put growth in quotes because I maintain that she was simply replaced by the marketing team with a different character whose archetype scored better with their demographics, and then given the same name, graphics and voice actor as a character in the first game so as to try to tie the story together.

Half-thinking I should poke my team-mates in regards to Myriad Cypher. I dunno. I'm just amazed how how quick Born Under the Rain was updated, and I could almost swear there was another jam-game that got updated since the event's conclusion.