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NOMIC (MAIN GAME TOPIC, NEW RULESET FOR EASIER PLAY)
Posts
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
Jeroen_Sol
View playlists
CloseErm... you're right.
Everywhere where it says CyberDagger, make it Fugue, then. :)
Everywhere where it says CyberDagger, make it Fugue, then. :)
Well I think it's been long enough. ivoryjones voted yay, Shinan and Jeroen voted nay, everyone else appears to be dead. Proposal fails, ivory's turn!
To be honest I forgot you'd sent it. XD
"I propose that any odd number rules (except for the initial ones) must have a vote of all players regardless for or against it, and those that fail to vote shall be deducted with 5 points!"
"I propose that any odd number rules (except for the initial ones) must have a vote of all players regardless for or against it, and those that fail to vote shall be deducted with 5 points!"
Shinan
4314
I'm not entirely sure I understand the wording of this rule. As it is worded now I can't really support it.
Does an oddly numbered rule have to have all the players saying yay or nay or just all the players have to vote. Does it only pass if all players have voted or if all players have voted yay. If a rule gets all but one person voting for it (with a yay, say) but then the last person doesn't then that last person gets deducted 5 points and the rule doesn't pass?
I would reword it to something like.
"Rule #9 Odd-one out rule
Any new rules propositions with an odd number must be voted upon by all players. If any player fails to vote the rule is not passed and any player that didn't vote get deducted 5 points. If all players vote then the rule has to have 51% (or more) support from the voters for it to pass as usual."
EDIT: Maybe word it as "the support of more than half of the votes" I just realized that 51% or more means that if (by some strange rule-changes) we get voting proportions that are 50.1% vs 49.9% that would mean odd rules won't pass.
Does an oddly numbered rule have to have all the players saying yay or nay or just all the players have to vote. Does it only pass if all players have voted or if all players have voted yay. If a rule gets all but one person voting for it (with a yay, say) but then the last person doesn't then that last person gets deducted 5 points and the rule doesn't pass?
I would reword it to something like.
"Rule #9 Odd-one out rule
Any new rules propositions with an odd number must be voted upon by all players. If any player fails to vote the rule is not passed and any player that didn't vote get deducted 5 points. If all players vote then the rule has to have 51% (or more) support from the voters for it to pass as usual."
EDIT: Maybe word it as "the support of more than half of the votes" I just realized that 51% or more means that if (by some strange rule-changes) we get voting proportions that are 50.1% vs 49.9% that would mean odd rules won't pass.
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
Hmmm... Has Fugue been banned? If not, we have an even number of players, making this rule unfair if the proposal fails if not everyone has voted. (even if I'd benefit from it, seeing I'll have even numbers.) If he has been banned the rule is fairer, but might be very annoying. Then again, it'll help boost activity since everyone'll have to vote not to lose points...
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
How about just making it: 'If someone fails to vote on a proposal, that person loses 5 points.' It's more general and fair, and more harsh. >:)
I agree with last one, but it should be "loses 5 points only when time's out, not if proposal was hammered by yays or nays too fast".
ivoryjones
75
We don't know what rule the players might implement in the future. It might be a rule that switches order, skips order or pass order etc etc which would mean everyone will have a chance to make an odd number rule. The possibilities are endless. :)
Shinan-
The rule only states that if YOU fail to vote in the deadline and it's an odd number rule, then you will lose points. I don't know why or how people came up with "hammered". This isn't even mafia. = = This is fair because, 1)It forces players to be active. 2)Even I can be 'unexpectedly' busy you know.
Shinan-
The rule only states that if YOU fail to vote in the deadline and it's an odd number rule, then you will lose points. I don't know why or how people came up with "hammered". This isn't even mafia. = = This is fair because, 1)It forces players to be active. 2)Even I can be 'unexpectedly' busy you know.
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
I think we were thrown off by: any odd number rules (except for the initial ones) must have a vote of all players regardless for or against it.
We thought it meant for the law to pass everyone would've had to vote.
But if it only states you lose points I can't see a reason not to implement it, though I'd settle for the more harsh approach of making it count for every single rule.
We thought it meant for the law to pass everyone would've had to vote.
But if it only states you lose points I can't see a reason not to implement it, though I'd settle for the more harsh approach of making it count for every single rule.
ivoryjones
75
"Except initial ones" meant the rules before my rule. Thought I'd add it to make it clearer. Oh well.
I'm not even sure if the ones who aren't posting are participating in this game at all. And some who ARE participating might be busy and fail to send a proposal, so everyone gets a turn of it.
I'm not even sure if the ones who aren't posting are participating in this game at all. And some who ARE participating might be busy and fail to send a proposal, so everyone gets a turn of it.
Shinan
4314
How does even number of players make it unfair? All you need is one rule not to pass and voila the next player is forced with the same odd problem as the other one.
But as an aside this rule is meant to punish people who don't vote. Not stop a proposal from going through unless everyone votes? Then I suggest the following wording:
Rule #9 Odd One Out Rule (OOOR)
Any person who does not vote on an oddly* numbered rules proposal gets deducted 5 points.
*oddly meaning an integer that is not evenly divisible by two. Not odd as in slightly strange
But as an aside this rule is meant to punish people who don't vote. Not stop a proposal from going through unless everyone votes? Then I suggest the following wording:
Rule #9 Odd One Out Rule (OOOR)
Any person who does not vote on an oddly* numbered rules proposal gets deducted 5 points.
*oddly meaning an integer that is not evenly divisible by two. Not odd as in slightly strange
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
How about making it three points for every proposal instead?
ivoryjones
75
Er Shinan my wording is pretty clear. It is a rule meant to punish people who fail to vote (as you've said), it doesn't, in any case, STOP a proposal from going through. You just need to put up a vote. It doesn't matter if you yay or nay it.
Jeroen-
The reason I'm making it 5 is to make calculating points in the future easier. 5 usually for 'smaller' rewards/punishment, 10 for 'bigger' rewards. I don't know about everyone though.
Jeroen-
The reason I'm making it 5 is to make calculating points in the future easier. 5 usually for 'smaller' rewards/punishment, 10 for 'bigger' rewards. I don't know about everyone though.
Shinan
4314
As a rules lawyer who has spent way too much time reading RPG and Games Workshop rulebooks I want to say that your original wording is very, very unclear.
The ambiguous part is in the word "must". It implies that any oddly numbered rule "MUST have a vote of all players regardless for or against it." In fact it's not very ambiguous. It clearly states that all players MUST vote on a proposal. I guess the ambiguousness comes in when the question is what happens if this rule is not followed (i.e. not everyone votes). The result is that any person who did not vote gets deducted 5 points but the question of whether the rules proposal is valid or not is pretty much up in the air at this point.
In fact it might even be read as if everyone votes on the proposal it goes through REGARDLESS of votes for or against ("must have a vote of all players regardless for or against it") as long as all players vote.
So tell me in so many words how your proposal is not ambiguous? I'm just saying that if we use your original proposal I can't vote for it. While I think that my (second) version is fairly clear and is the same rule without... the... issues.
EDIT: I just read your post again and missed a bit. Because I'm apparently a bad rules lawyer.
"I propose that any odd number rules (except for the initial ones) must have a vote of all players regardless for or against it, and those that fail to vote shall be deducted with 5 points!"The opening is fairly clear. It states that this is about any odd numbered rule except initial ones. I removed the except initial ones in my version which does matter a little bit. It means that any modifications to an original rule that is oddly numbered is not affected by this rule. While in my version even the old (original) rules are affected.
The ambiguous part is in the word "must". It implies that any oddly numbered rule "MUST have a vote of all players regardless for or against it." In fact it's not very ambiguous. It clearly states that all players MUST vote on a proposal. I guess the ambiguousness comes in when the question is what happens if this rule is not followed (i.e. not everyone votes). The result is that any person who did not vote gets deducted 5 points but the question of whether the rules proposal is valid or not is pretty much up in the air at this point.
In fact it might even be read as if everyone votes on the proposal it goes through REGARDLESS of votes for or against ("must have a vote of all players regardless for or against it") as long as all players vote.
So tell me in so many words how your proposal is not ambiguous? I'm just saying that if we use your original proposal I can't vote for it. While I think that my (second) version is fairly clear and is the same rule without... the... issues.
EDIT: I just read your post again and missed a bit. Because I'm apparently a bad rules lawyer.
it doesn't, in any case, STOP a proposal from going through.does this mean that the vote is INTENDED to go through regardless of the votes as long as everyone votes?
ivoryjones
75
*facepalm*
Shinan stop donating to kickstarter. Like, now.
---
Ok. I will try to break it down bits by bits.
"Any. odd. number. rule. Fail to vote = -5 pts. WE DONT CARE IF YOU'RE FOR OR AGAINST THE PROPOSAL JUST PUT UP A GODDAMN VOTE IF U NO WANT -POINTS."
Better?
---
On a more serious note: Seriously, the rule is meant to punish people who fail to vote on odd number proposals. It affects YOUR points - I do not know why or how you can come up with the rule suddenly affecting the proposal of going through or not. The proposal being oked is entirely up to the players agreeing with it or not.
Shinan stop donating to kickstarter. Like, now.
---
Ok. I will try to break it down bits by bits.
"Any. odd. number. rule. Fail to vote = -5 pts. WE DONT CARE IF YOU'RE FOR OR AGAINST THE PROPOSAL JUST PUT UP A GODDAMN VOTE IF U NO WANT -POINTS."
Better?
---
On a more serious note: Seriously, the rule is meant to punish people who fail to vote on odd number proposals. It affects YOUR points - I do not know why or how you can come up with the rule suddenly affecting the proposal of going through or not. The proposal being oked is entirely up to the players agreeing with it or not.
