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NEW POLICIES FOR 2014: A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT
Posts
Feldschlacht IV
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Closeauthor=papasan96
I don't know where you got that idea. It's probably one of the strongest insults you can use in the UK. I mean, although "fuck" is pretty common in TV nowadays you almost never hear "cunt". So yeah, I agree that it's not a word that you can generally use as a bit of banter.
It must be a East End thing or something, I've witness rugby bros go "yeah he's a good cunt" and "Haha, good one ya cunt" thrown around like candy. Not to say that you wouldn't get in trouble for walking up to someone and calling them a cunt, but here in the US, even saying the word cunt will light up a room; in the UK it seemed that the word was thrown around pretty casually.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
I think it also depends on what kind of people you're around. I have known people who use the word "fuck" the way some people use hot sauce- liberally sprinkling it over everything. I also know people who would be scandalized to hear it. Until you are pretty sure what end of the spectrum you're dealing with, it's usually a good idea to hold off on saying your swears.
It should be noted that the intention of this policy is not to police people's language. The intention is to foster an inclusive, non-alienating environment where everyone feels welcome and people don't have to just 'deal' with casual harassment and misogyny as a matter of course for participating on this website.
Now, maybe some people think "Well, this place doesn't seem so bad, I don't see how anyone could feel offended on this website unless they're looking to be offended." But we do hear from people who are bothered by incidents of misogyny. And it often bothers them because they're forced to deal with it everywhere they go. At RMN, we want to at least make an effort for this to be one place where they don't have to deal with that.
Does that make sense?
Now, maybe some people think "Well, this place doesn't seem so bad, I don't see how anyone could feel offended on this website unless they're looking to be offended." But we do hear from people who are bothered by incidents of misogyny. And it often bothers them because they're forced to deal with it everywhere they go. At RMN, we want to at least make an effort for this to be one place where they don't have to deal with that.
Does that make sense?
author=Feldschlacht IV
That's not always true either. See; the UK. There, (and among British English speakers), even when it is an insult, its pretty much the most mild thing you can call someone.
(not being obtuse on purpose, being dead ass serious here)
I was born and grew up in the UK, if you used that word around anyone I knew you'd be shown the door; the outside of the door as it slammed behind you after you'd been booted out on your arse secure in the knowledge you would never be welcomed back.
I don't know what part of the UK you visited, but there are enclaves of coarse people the world over, to the majority it is not a mild insult, it's horrendous.
Even in Australia - a country full of swearing as playful banter - it's considered extremely uncouth to use that word, especially in a joking manner. Some do use it in their banter but they do it to outrage others deliberately. It's one of the few words that is basically Just Not Used - and we use bitch, arse and bastard on the radio.
author=Libertyauthor=Feldschlacht IVIt's not about frequency but use. It's always an insult. People call others dicks affectionately. Not so for cunt.author=LibertyIs it? When I was in Europe everyone threw that word around like confetti. They always gave us Americans flak for finding it so heavy.
well, cunt is always a very heavy insult.
In New Zealand people affectionally call each other cunt all the time, although it sounds more like a "kieeeent" than anything.
(my useless 2 cents)
author=nhubiauthor=Feldschlacht IVI was born and grew up in the UK, if you used that word around anyone I knew you'd be shown the door; the outside of the door as it slammed behind you after you'd been booted out on your arse secure in the knowledge you would never be welcomed back.
That's not always true either. See; the UK. There, (and among British English speakers), even when it is an insult, its pretty much the most mild thing you can call someone.
(not being obtuse on purpose, being dead ass serious here)
I don't know what part of the UK you visited, but there are enclaves of coarse people the world over, to the majority it is not a mild insult, it's horrendous.
Oh I'm sure.
I just remember getting into conversations specifically regarding that word and how its more loosely regarded in the UK than here. You even see it online; most of the people I know who use the word (regardless of their intent or intensity) are from the UK. In the US, its so bad you just don't even say it, regardless of how intense you feel.
Hell, you could even Google 'cunt difference between the US and UK' and see for yourself; it's not a polite word in the UK by any means (unless you spent most of your time in bars like I did), but it's far worse in the US, however bad it is in the UK.
Anyway, like I said, it's sort of a 'thing' that the word is regarded much worse in the US than UK. Seriously, Google it!
It's also pretty important to remember that how much you can swear around someone or what nicknames or insults you use is based around how comfortable and familiar you are with each other. If you're friends with someone, calling them an asshole might be lighthearted (or even a compliment?) but if it's the waiter at the restaurant it has a very different meaning. You might be close enough to your siblings or friends to call them certain things, but on a message board (especially with users who don't know you) you're gonna come off as a jackass. Plus, what people are comfortable with differs between private and public conversation.
Socializing is hard, eh? It's a game all on its own.
Socializing is hard, eh? It's a game all on its own.
author=Yellow Magic
Or how about: Horrible words are used by horrible people irrespective of country?
Now now, to assume that people who use horrible words are horrible people is pretty bullheaded. Someone's proclivity to use offensive words tends not to be indicative of their character.
Take it from me, I live in Seattle, hyperliberal enclave (yes, I am liberal minded myself, so that's not a snark) where people bend over backwards to be PC, yet half of those people are just assholes under a veneer to be politically correct as not to be socially ostracized, and other third are too wrapped up in minutiae PC to realize that the worth of a person is summed up more than potentially offensive words or phrases they may mindlessly use.
So I'm pretty familiar with how this goes.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=slash
It's also pretty important to remember that how much you can swear around someone or what nicknames or insults you use is based around how comfortable and familiar you are with each other.
This.
author=Yellow Magic
Or how about: Horrible words are used by horrible people irrespective of country?
"But my friends and I use those words, and we like each other, which means we CAN'T be horrible! Why can't you just stop being offended by things like we have?"
author=Sooz
"But my friends and I use those words, and we like each other, which means we CAN'T be horrible! Why can't you just stop being offended by things like we have?"
Like I said, automatically denigrating people who use offensive words into a little 'horrible box' is ignorant ivory tower perching at best and does nothing to actually contemplate the idea that 1. Human behavior and mindsets exists in a gray area 2. People are more than the sum of the words they use.
I mean come on. I'm in no way defending words that others may find hurtful, but this is a more complex idea than we're giving it credit for. We're all adults here.
Which is why the staff's policy is to use their judgement on what is inappropriate and what is not. it is not handled by robots filtering by language and auto-banning.
I'll agree on this point - demonizing anyone who comes off as immediately offensive is dangerous. Pretending they're totally unforgivable and incomprehensible is a great way to never bother trying to understand why people would say shitty things in the first place... I used to be pretty shitty myself, so if I think it's worth the time, I try to explain things rather than write someone off. Even if you don't want to bother, it's good to remember that somewhere along the way, that person was taught that those things were okay.
I think there's a middle ground - if someone says something rude to you, but you're still interested in maintaining a good relationship, you can explain to them why it was rude. If they insist on repeating it, dump 'em. That said, on the internet, there's no real incentive to preserve relationships with randos (and you can often tell if they're trying to offend you intentionally) and giving them the benefit of the doubt can be a lot of work, so dump 'em if you gotta. It sucks if that rudeness was truly accidental, but that's life.
For what it's worth, I've never seen someone get banned from here for saying just one super offensive thing - it's usually a series of repeated, consistent assholery.
I think there's a middle ground - if someone says something rude to you, but you're still interested in maintaining a good relationship, you can explain to them why it was rude. If they insist on repeating it, dump 'em. That said, on the internet, there's no real incentive to preserve relationships with randos (and you can often tell if they're trying to offend you intentionally) and giving them the benefit of the doubt can be a lot of work, so dump 'em if you gotta. It sucks if that rudeness was truly accidental, but that's life.
For what it's worth, I've never seen someone get banned from here for saying just one super offensive thing - it's usually a series of repeated, consistent assholery.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=Feldschlacht IV
Like I said, automatically denigrating people who use offensive words into a little 'horrible box' is ignorant ivory tower perching at best and does nothing to actually contemplate the idea that 1.
The post I was responding to was not automatically denigrating anyone, which is easy to tell from the phrasing.
Instead of reacting defensively and then making yourself feel better with, "Well anyone who objects is just a pointy-headed intellectual who doesn't understand Real Life like me and my buddies!" I suggest trying to understand why certain people might have a problem with certain words.
(And accepting that, in groups of "not entirely my buddies," it's probably better to keep language more neutral out of simple politeness because goddammit I just want to talk about gam mak and not have to wrangle with the reminders that a significant chunk of the opposite sex thinks I'm inherently, biologically terrible because the sperm that drilled its way into the egg that became me was an X rather than a Y.*)
*And the hormones delivered in utero developed me into a ladytype because in this discussion I feel like leaving that out would be kind of crap to people whose gender and sex don't match up right.
author=Sooz
The post I was responding to was not automatically denigrating anyone, which is easy to tell from the phrasing.
I never said it was.
author=Sooz
I suggest trying to understand why certain people might have a problem with certain words.
To assume that I don't understand why certain people might have a problem with certain words is pretty patronizing! I understand good and well all of that.
I'm simply addressing (halfway for the sake of devil's advocate and halfway because I really think its worth addressing) that it's pretty easy to devolve this mindset into 'horrible people who use horrible words/"enlightened people such as myself hmmph" that don't'.
Utilizing overall judgement of character, like Soli is saying, is best.
I don't want any sort of strict word-policing or anything like that. I'd just appreciate the common courtesy to be able to discuss game making without words like "cunt," "dyke," "faggot," (or anything that uses Gay as a negative) etc being thrown around. It's not that I'm too prudish to hear such language, it's that it really does feel like it's fostering an uncomfortable atmosphere for people who have been unironically called these things often, in a hateful manner, in real life.
If people could avoid words like that and not bring up painful memories for some of us, what's the downside? Are there topics on this site that need those words to function? Is it really asking too much?
If people could avoid words like that and not bring up painful memories for some of us, what's the downside? Are there topics on this site that need those words to function? Is it really asking too much?
I agree.
Let me be clear: I am not defending the usage of those words. I would rather them not be used as well. I'm just addressing the concerning potential black and white mindset that usually accompanies conversations like these.
Let me be clear: I am not defending the usage of those words. I would rather them not be used as well. I'm just addressing the concerning potential black and white mindset that usually accompanies conversations like these.
author=Feldschlacht IVI never said I wasn't a horrible person.
Like I said, automatically denigrating people who use offensive words into a little 'horrible box' is ignorant ivory tower perching at best and does nothing to actually contemplate the idea that 1. Human behavior and mindsets exists in a gray area 2. People are more than the sum of the words they use.
But for the record: We shouldn't be okay with gendered insults just because they're commonplace. Like, we're never gonna advance as a species if we just keep saying, "Well that's just how it is yo", or "it ain't black and white", etc. etc.
I'm all in favour of developing a thick skin, but if there's something that obviously shouldn't be the norm, there's no reason to sit back and accept it.
