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SUBMISSION RULES: UPDATE - ADDENDUM ADDED BECAUSE FFS PEOPLE!
Posts
amerk
2539
amerk
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Closeauthor=Liberty
And description/page layout (bright neon yellow text on white background is a no, just in case anyone was wondering).
TESTING, TESTING
Yeah, I probably would need sunblock and a pair of sunglasses just to look at that.
Guys, remember that rule about using images on game pages without credit?
It doesn't apply to screenshots within the game.
It is up to the person to properly credit in-game usage of art and the like = we can't mystically peer into a game and know whether or not their end credits or readme files actually contain those credits or not.
If you see a screenshot that uses art from a source THAT IS NOT A FELLOW INDIE CREATOR* then please don't report that to us. Leave a comment on that screenshot reminding them to include the source within the actual game credits/read me.
Thank you!
*If you notice art or resources that are from fellow indie game creators and you know that the original source doesn't allow others to use their graphics, then please do report that. While we allow rips from commercial, big company games, we don't allow them from fellow small-time creators.
It doesn't apply to screenshots within the game.
It is up to the person to properly credit in-game usage of art and the like = we can't mystically peer into a game and know whether or not their end credits or readme files actually contain those credits or not.
If you see a screenshot that uses art from a source THAT IS NOT A FELLOW INDIE CREATOR* then please don't report that to us. Leave a comment on that screenshot reminding them to include the source within the actual game credits/read me.
Thank you!
*If you notice art or resources that are from fellow indie game creators and you know that the original source doesn't allow others to use their graphics, then please do report that. While we allow rips from commercial, big company games, we don't allow them from fellow small-time creators.
You better be careful, the double standards are getting close to reaching critical mass.
I have a much simpler to understand rule: no stealing
I have a much simpler to understand rule: no stealing
It's the same standard we've always had on the site, and even Gaming World had the same standard - basically don't shit on the people you work with. Using rips from big name commercial games who get paid a fucking huge amount of money for the creation and production of said resources is not equatable to taking something that a no-name developer poured their heart and soul into creating for their tiny little project.
For one, we all know where the ripped content comes from - the big name companies like Square and Nintendo are well-known enough that just seeing a sprite that resembles Mario or Link will mean people instantly think of those games, but an originally crafted characterset made specifically for a small indie game could be mistaken as having been created for the game you first see it in. There's no instant recognition behind seeing it which is why it's incomparable.
Chrono Trigger rips are always easy to pick out. Custom chips stolen from someone else's RM game is not. That's why this rule exists - so that those who created those resources aren't shafted by anonymity.
For one, we all know where the ripped content comes from - the big name companies like Square and Nintendo are well-known enough that just seeing a sprite that resembles Mario or Link will mean people instantly think of those games, but an originally crafted characterset made specifically for a small indie game could be mistaken as having been created for the game you first see it in. There's no instant recognition behind seeing it which is why it's incomparable.
Chrono Trigger rips are always easy to pick out. Custom chips stolen from someone else's RM game is not. That's why this rule exists - so that those who created those resources aren't shafted by anonymity.
amerk
2539
Not only that, but big game companies still have the rights to C&D's, so it's not like a hobbyist developer would ignore them if they were asked to stop, even for non-profit projects. Also, there's the fact that many of the big game developers recognize people use their resources for fan-based projects, and in some cases even encourage it since it brings attention and advertisement to their own commercial endeavors.
Small indie developers don't often have the recognition behind their names, so when somebody rips from them without prior permission, it hurts them much more.
Small indie developers don't often have the recognition behind their names, so when somebody rips from them without prior permission, it hurts them much more.
My argument isn't based on who is more hurt by the stealing. It's based on the morals of the situation that nobody cares to fucking acknowledge. Case in point: the excuses that seem to pop up about how it's okay to steal from some people but not from others. I don't bring it up in hopes that I'll magically change the rules of the community, just that people might stop and consider their own actions as a developer.
Thankfully I can say that the RTP and other freeware resources are experiencing a growth spurt in usage. That's something.
I don't give a damn if the resources are more recognizable. The fuck is that supposed to mean? Plenty of indie games have very recognizable resources (Cave Story, La-Mulana, anything by cactus squid, Super Brothers Sword and Sworcery LP, Gunpoint, etc, etc.) That doesn't even have anything to do with the issue.
Like, idk, we're all developers. The only difference is wealth. They have more money, more people, but their still from the same breed of people. It's not fucking Robin Hood or some shit.
tl;dr I'd rather just hear these people admit that they're doing something wrong rather than hear excuses for why it's somehow okay
Thankfully I can say that the RTP and other freeware resources are experiencing a growth spurt in usage. That's something.
I don't give a damn if the resources are more recognizable. The fuck is that supposed to mean? Plenty of indie games have very recognizable resources (Cave Story, La-Mulana, anything by cactus squid, Super Brothers Sword and Sworcery LP, Gunpoint, etc, etc.) That doesn't even have anything to do with the issue.
Like, idk, we're all developers. The only difference is wealth. They have more money, more people, but their still from the same breed of people. It's not fucking Robin Hood or some shit.
tl;dr I'd rather just hear these people admit that they're doing something wrong rather than hear excuses for why it's somehow okay
Dude, everyone knows it's not okay (I mean, hence why no-one is selling games with graphics from, say, Mario or Zelda or CT in them), but we're not going to persecute people who choose to use them, unlike if they use graphics from fellow indie devs. It's not about right or wrong, it's about saying 'this is the line WE draw in the sand when it comes to this issue'.
We allow the use of commercial rips. We don't allow the use of indie content that isn't shared. That's where RMN stands. If you've a problem with it, then don't use rips - that's 100% your choice. If Joe Schmoe wants to use FF5 rips for his Chrono Trigger fangame that's up to him. As long as he isn't planning to sell that shit or claim the graphics as 100% his own (we had a case of this recently and stepped on it right away) then by site rules that is a-okay. We all know where those graphics came from.
If Jack Blue decides to take the musical score that was espressly made for another RM project without permission, then that's against site rules. That's it. That's all there is to it. Seriously, I don't get what the issue is here. That's the rule - just like 300 word reviews and proper spelling/grammar in articles and not calling everyone and their mother fuckwits are rules.
To some they don't make sense, but they still have to abide.
Gotta love how a post-script gets more talk than the actual issue discussed though.
We allow the use of commercial rips. We don't allow the use of indie content that isn't shared. That's where RMN stands. If you've a problem with it, then don't use rips - that's 100% your choice. If Joe Schmoe wants to use FF5 rips for his Chrono Trigger fangame that's up to him. As long as he isn't planning to sell that shit or claim the graphics as 100% his own (we had a case of this recently and stepped on it right away) then by site rules that is a-okay. We all know where those graphics came from.
If Jack Blue decides to take the musical score that was espressly made for another RM project without permission, then that's against site rules. That's it. That's all there is to it. Seriously, I don't get what the issue is here. That's the rule - just like 300 word reviews and proper spelling/grammar in articles and not calling everyone and their mother fuckwits are rules.
To some they don't make sense, but they still have to abide.
Gotta love how a post-script gets more talk than the actual issue discussed though.
You know what my fucking issue is. Don't play that game.
I'm just gonna retreat to my creative corner topic. This stay on RMN is fucking temportary if antthing FUCK
WHAT A SHITTY FUCKING COMMUNITY SHIT
I'm just gonna retreat to my creative corner topic. This stay on RMN is fucking temportary if antthing FUCK
WHAT A SHITTY FUCKING COMMUNITY SHIT
Dude, chill. I honestly don't know why you're getting so worked up about this.
It really doesn't change anything that wasn't always there - it's not a new rule - and it's not affecting you if you choose not to play those games. That's 100% your choice.
I think you might be going a little overboard with anger over a rule that doesn't affect you at all. >.<;
It really doesn't change anything that wasn't always there - it's not a new rule - and it's not affecting you if you choose not to play those games. That's 100% your choice.
I think you might be going a little overboard with anger over a rule that doesn't affect you at all. >.<;
Discussing how the community has accepted certain levels of copyright infringement / double standards / honor among thieves is fine. Shit / Drunk / Angry / Garbage posts about it are not, this goes for everybody. Posting Protip: Replying to shit with your own shit is still shit.
I agree that we should enforce no rips from an ethical and moral standpoint. However, it's hard work for the volunteers here in RMN AND that would mean we would have to start removing every.single.game that uses them right now in RMN. That is like 95% of the games here, including some classics we have (e.g. Sunset Over Imdahl uses Chrono Trigger Rips, Alter AILA Genesis using tons of ripped tiles, etc.). That would also mean we will have to remove every RM game since they used pirated programs and thus, have no rights to the RTP. I prefer to keep them and serve as an inspiration and learning material than have them disappear completely.
The RM community isn't ready for that yet. We need more materials and diversity to create games. We don't have enough artists and even open source materials from other indies are severely lacking. Although there has been a large decrease of people using rips (and most use Audio rips more) so we're definitely getting there. I'm not sure why you're so mad.
The RM community isn't ready for that yet. We need more materials and diversity to create games. We don't have enough artists and even open source materials from other indies are severely lacking. Although there has been a large decrease of people using rips (and most use Audio rips more) so we're definitely getting there. I'm not sure why you're so mad.
Personally I am glad to see the community culture shift away from the horrible rip mishmash of yesteryear. In a not-really sense it's like actors who can't get into their role: Now you see Surlent and that npc girl from the second town to the tune of the unreleased boss battle theme from Chrono Trigger while fighting evil paladins from Breath of Fire 2 while playing a game of guess the source with the tileset. Of course there's the problem with everybody using the RTP and edits to make it fit that make a lot of games have a very similar visual feel. Hopefully the MOG events help out with getting people to expand their horizons on this front.
RPGs are* pretty asset heavy games too. Look at the current market and how some of the big professional devs like SE are feeling the strain too of making all of the AAA assets. Their old methodology of throwing people at a problem isn't working, see their last gen works and releases (and what they dropped entirely) as evidence.
e: Well, can be. Lots of us awful vaporware devs have the pie in the sky dreams of their favorite SNES RPG instead of any sort of manageable game that doesn't have the same asset demands.
e2: But if I ever made a FF fangame I would totally steal the FF14 OSTs because it is chock full of good stuff
RPGs are* pretty asset heavy games too. Look at the current market and how some of the big professional devs like SE are feeling the strain too of making all of the AAA assets. Their old methodology of throwing people at a problem isn't working, see their last gen works and releases (and what they dropped entirely) as evidence.
e: Well, can be. Lots of us awful vaporware devs have the pie in the sky dreams of their favorite SNES RPG instead of any sort of manageable game that doesn't have the same asset demands.
e2: But if I ever made a FF fangame I would totally steal the FF14 OSTs because it is chock full of good stuff
I never really minded rips. Sure you can make a moral and ethnical point against them, but on a straight up, raw, 'am I having fun' aspect, I adore them being around, honestly.
Games like Exit Fate, Alter AILA Genesis, Blackmoon, Hero's Realm, and a few others that were made from rips were a really great time and a lot of fun to play. Breaking apart rips, recoloring them, and 'remaking' maps from assets from old ass games are fun too. I think there's a 'breathing new life' aspect here too, I (and countless others if they will admit it or not) would have literally never heard of a lot of older SNES games if it wasn't for people reaching back in time and ripping the graphics from them, whether they used them in RPG Maker or not. Treasure of the Rudwhat?
I'm not saying game developers should be thanking us or whatever, but honestly I think that by and large nobody, or rather, nobody in terms of a large statistical pool of players, really cares. Most of us do this shit for free and in our spare time of spare time, and the time spent drawing up graphics (or paying someone else to do it) I'd rather do on hobbies I'm actually more invested in.
And also, the idea that games with rips are inherently inferior in terms of a boolean 'less fun' aspect, I don't think that's true either. Outside of the sphere of RPG Maker, tons of acclaimed fan games are already around with assets from other games. Valve games do this shit on the regular. The Nameless Mod, a free to play fan game based off Deus Ex resources, is probably several orders of magnitude bigger, more complex, and maybe even fun than the original game (and Deus Ex is that shit, yo). If you want an in community example, Exit Fate once again is pretty well known and lots of people dig Hero's Realm. I can pull up numerous examples inside and outside the RM community that something that's well enough made with rips can still be pretty well received.
If you want to make a moral argument against it, be my guest, sure. But in terms of straight up 'fun for free', I mean, whatever, people seem to be digging it. Of course, games with totally original assets would be the best case scenario, but hold on, let me quit my job and dump my girlfriend real quick.
EDIT: Not to say that people with the goal to get more original content out there is in vain. I totally get that! You are artists and your main goal that you would like to see is the proliferation of more art, namely original art from modern creators. I'm just saying that there's not enough people in a statistically impactful way out there that see skillfully used rips/edits (and yes that is a thing) as a serious detriment to a fun game, especially for something that's free and mostly made for fun.
Games like Exit Fate, Alter AILA Genesis, Blackmoon, Hero's Realm, and a few others that were made from rips were a really great time and a lot of fun to play. Breaking apart rips, recoloring them, and 'remaking' maps from assets from old ass games are fun too. I think there's a 'breathing new life' aspect here too, I (and countless others if they will admit it or not) would have literally never heard of a lot of older SNES games if it wasn't for people reaching back in time and ripping the graphics from them, whether they used them in RPG Maker or not. Treasure of the Rudwhat?
I'm not saying game developers should be thanking us or whatever, but honestly I think that by and large nobody, or rather, nobody in terms of a large statistical pool of players, really cares. Most of us do this shit for free and in our spare time of spare time, and the time spent drawing up graphics (or paying someone else to do it) I'd rather do on hobbies I'm actually more invested in.
And also, the idea that games with rips are inherently inferior in terms of a boolean 'less fun' aspect, I don't think that's true either. Outside of the sphere of RPG Maker, tons of acclaimed fan games are already around with assets from other games. Valve games do this shit on the regular. The Nameless Mod, a free to play fan game based off Deus Ex resources, is probably several orders of magnitude bigger, more complex, and maybe even fun than the original game (and Deus Ex is that shit, yo). If you want an in community example, Exit Fate once again is pretty well known and lots of people dig Hero's Realm. I can pull up numerous examples inside and outside the RM community that something that's well enough made with rips can still be pretty well received.
If you want to make a moral argument against it, be my guest, sure. But in terms of straight up 'fun for free', I mean, whatever, people seem to be digging it. Of course, games with totally original assets would be the best case scenario, but hold on, let me quit my job and dump my girlfriend real quick.
EDIT: Not to say that people with the goal to get more original content out there is in vain. I totally get that! You are artists and your main goal that you would like to see is the proliferation of more art, namely original art from modern creators. I'm just saying that there's not enough people in a statistically impactful way out there that see skillfully used rips/edits (and yes that is a thing) as a serious detriment to a fun game, especially for something that's free and mostly made for fun.
I've never once had a moral conundrum about the use of rips in my free illegal version 2k3 game that only a handful of people have seen and played.
Also, I've played more games on here that use rips than games with original graphics. Because what is a good, long RPG game that sports all original graphics and content on here that isn't about a little girl in a trippy world?
Also, I've played more games on here that use rips than games with original graphics. Because what is a good, long RPG game that sports all original graphics and content on here that isn't about a little girl in a trippy world?
speaking of Hero's Realm, when I was picking out resources for it, the question was solely "will this work in my game?"
but really, this is a place for hobbyist game devs to have fun making games and showing them off. if making custom resources is fun to you then more power to you! if not we don't really care. Have fun making games and let others have fun making theirs.
but really, this is a place for hobbyist game devs to have fun making games and showing them off. if making custom resources is fun to you then more power to you! if not we don't really care. Have fun making games and let others have fun making theirs.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=LibertyThe title screen is... totally in the game though? And so is the game over screen. They are menus. How can you say menus are okay and then say title screens aren't? The title screen is the first menu the player sees when they start the game.
Because they don't show part of the game itself. You can make a black title screen with white text, otherwise. It shows sweet fuck all about what the game entails or what to expect of it. At least if you're showing a menu, it's something you'll see and use in-game.
I mean, I could also make a solid black map with white borders around the edges of the path, or a parallax map consisting entirely of a screenshot of Guilty Gear. That's the type of content you want to deny title screens for being... but you already have rules allowing you to deny that type of content regardless of whether or not it's a title screen.
I also agree with Pizza re: theft. There's no difference between indie creators and major studio developers. Claiming that there is is doing a huge disservice to indie creators. Our art is exactly as important as Square Enix's. I would rather see all of it made okay to steal than none of it, though.
