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TRUTH OR HAPPINESS?
Posts
Tau
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CloseTruth or Happiness, which do you value more? and why?
Me?To be honest.. I don't really know. Happiness is always a good thing but depending on the situation it can also hurt you. Being truthful about everything also has many downfalls to it and can really change a mans perspective on life. Seeing everything for what it is is not only depressing but free in a way. Being overly optimistic is also something hard to do in the world we live in.
I don't really have a clear answer for this but a great question nonetheless. I would love to think I'm happy kinda person but in all honesty I cant really see it. I haven't had the best or hell even normal upbringing to grasp true happiness so I guess.. Truth.
Me?To be honest.. I don't really know. Happiness is always a good thing but depending on the situation it can also hurt you. Being truthful about everything also has many downfalls to it and can really change a mans perspective on life. Seeing everything for what it is is not only depressing but free in a way. Being overly optimistic is also something hard to do in the world we live in.
I don't really have a clear answer for this but a great question nonetheless. I would love to think I'm happy kinda person but in all honesty I cant really see it. I haven't had the best or hell even normal upbringing to grasp true happiness so I guess.. Truth.
Sion
37
Oh god, definitely happiness.
That's all we want in life anyways right?
You can tell me the truth when I'm too
happy to care.
~Sion
That's all we want in life anyways right?
You can tell me the truth when I'm too
happy to care.
~Sion
If we can't live in a world that has both, that really sucks.
I think I value both really highly, this is such a tough question thats really getting me thinking, it really depends on the situation. If I was in a serious relationship in which my girlfriend/ wife has been cheating on me I would want the truth rather than live a total lie, even if I was happy.
I guess in that sense it's truth.
I think I value both really highly, this is such a tough question thats really getting me thinking, it really depends on the situation. If I was in a serious relationship in which my girlfriend/ wife has been cheating on me I would want the truth rather than live a total lie, even if I was happy.
I guess in that sense it's truth.
Truth by a huge margin. False happiness is just that, false. For me, truth is somewhat of a prerequisite to happiness. In the end, we'll be judged by our virtues.
The philosophy on life I admire most evolves from Eudaimonia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaimonia Happiness through excellence and fulfilling of potential. I guess that sort of applies to this.
The philosophy on life I admire most evolves from Eudaimonia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eudaimonia Happiness through excellence and fulfilling of potential. I guess that sort of applies to this.
Shadowtext
120
Truth doesn't exist. Well maybe it does, but it's unknowable to the human mind probably. Reality is always viewed through the filter of consciousness, and subject to one's own subjective....dealies.
So yeah, happiness. Anyone who thinks they've found truth has just bought in to a more convincing illusion.
So yeah, happiness. Anyone who thinks they've found truth has just bought in to a more convincing illusion.
Blitzen
3253
Finding truth and understanding it are two different things. The capital T "Truth" cannot be proven or known, but it can be understood by people who choose to seek it. This is why things make sense, because there is an ontological Truth about everything, that we can't know for sure (because of the flaws of human perception) but that we can begin to understand (thanks to human reason) if we decide to trust in its presence. Of course, an absence of any ontological truth, truth outside the existence of the perciever, means that to the perciever, they are the only legitimate agent in the universe, and then things like morality, empathy, and science pretty much lose thier base and go out the window.
That having been said, the search for Truth is an ongoing, asymptotic affair, where in you always approach it but never reach it. I think someone once said, "Those who seek the truth are intellectuals, and those who claim to have found it are fanatics."
If searching for the truth is something that makes a person happy, I don't see why they can't have it both ways.
That having been said, the search for Truth is an ongoing, asymptotic affair, where in you always approach it but never reach it. I think someone once said, "Those who seek the truth are intellectuals, and those who claim to have found it are fanatics."
If searching for the truth is something that makes a person happy, I don't see why they can't have it both ways.
Natook
1000
I won't go philosophical with this one like Blitz and ST, but I definitely prefer truth. More than likely I will somehow come across it anyways, whether or not it's from someone else. So then I end up frustrated because I learned that someone lied to me. My feeling don't need to be saved. It spares me of my feelings getting hurt anyways if people are up front with it right away so that it doesn't have time to grow into something more hurtful. Some say ignorance is bliss, which I guess is true for some people, but I'm more of a harsh reality type of guy.
I remember touching on this subject in a philosophy class I took a few years back. It's basically the "red pill / blue pill" question from the Matrix. Do you want to live your life in an ignorant happiness, or seek the truth for yourself?
We were given a question to discuss as a class. Suppose there is a machine, and this machine, when you are hooked up to it, will suspend you in a state of infinite bliss. You never feel unhappy. You never feel without pleasure. You never feel bored. You never feel sad, lonely, angry, or afraid. You are always happy and content when in this machine.
If you were told you could enter this machine, but never come back out, would you do it?
The general consensus was "I would, if I wasn't made aware of exactly what it did."
It seems awareness really is the key. You can be blissfully ignorant your entire life, until you're made aware of how ignorant you are. You dig?
We were given a question to discuss as a class. Suppose there is a machine, and this machine, when you are hooked up to it, will suspend you in a state of infinite bliss. You never feel unhappy. You never feel without pleasure. You never feel bored. You never feel sad, lonely, angry, or afraid. You are always happy and content when in this machine.
If you were told you could enter this machine, but never come back out, would you do it?
The general consensus was "I would, if I wasn't made aware of exactly what it did."
It seems awareness really is the key. You can be blissfully ignorant your entire life, until you're made aware of how ignorant you are. You dig?
Blitzen
3253
author=narcodis link=topic=1618.msg25635#msg25635 date=1217310350
We were given a question to discuss as a class. Suppose there is a machine, and this machine, when you are hooked up to it, will suspend you in a state of infinite bliss. You never feel unhappy. You never feel without pleasure. You never feel bored. You never feel sad, lonely, angry, or afraid. You are always happy and content when in this machine.
Sounds boring. I'd switch classes.
Shadowtext
120
author=narcodis link=topic=1618.msg25635#msg25635 date=1217310350Would this be a Lotus Eater Machine by any chance?
I remember touching on this subject in a philosophy class I took a few years back. It's basically the "red pill / blue pill" question from the Matrix. Do you want to live your life in an ignorant happiness, or seek the truth for yourself?
We were given a question to discuss as a class. Suppose there is a machine, and this machine, when you are hooked up to it, will suspend you in a state of infinite bliss. You never feel unhappy. You never feel without pleasure. You never feel bored. You never feel sad, lonely, angry, or afraid. You are always happy and content when in this machine.
If you were told you could enter this machine, but never come back out, would you do it?
The general consensus was "I would, if I wasn't made aware of exactly what it did."
It seems awareness really is the key. You can be blissfully ignorant your entire life, until you're made aware of how ignorant you are. You dig?
But yeah, pleasure without pain just doesn't work. The only way you can define that as not being boring is to assume the suspension of consciousness and individuality. Essentially, it would mean death, in the sense that the person you used to be no longer exists.
And at that, I don't think that knowing something is an illusion makes you unable to enjoy it. Humans have a very powerful ability to suspend their disbelief; it's a required component of any form of fiction. If we can appreciate movies, books, video games, what have you, we should be able to appreciate a more permenant illusion.
I think this whole discussion can more simply be boiled down to this question:
"In Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, was Marshe the hero, or the villain?"
We were given a question to discuss as a class. Suppose there is a machine, and this machine, when you are hooked up to it, will suspend you in a state of infinite bliss. You never feel unhappy. You never feel without pleasure. You never feel bored. You never feel sad, lonely, angry, or afraid. You are always happy and content when in this machine.
If you were told you could enter this machine, but never come back out, would you do it?
True happiness probably isn't even imaginable to the human mind.
author=Shadowtext link=topic=1618.msg25638#msg25638 date=1217311638
I think this whole discussion can more simply be boiled down to this question:
"In Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, was Marshe the hero, or the villain?"
this discussion suddenly just got way too deep.
Canuck
0
Unless talking about a biological sensation of pleasure, as opposed to a metaphysical definition of happiness, one is needed for the other to occur.
I think someone already said this, so hey you, I agree with you. You're alright.
I think someone already said this, so hey you, I agree with you. You're alright.
Darken
3952
author=Shadowtext link=topic=1618.msg25638#msg25638 date=1217311638
"In Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, was Marshe the hero, or the villain?"
Darken's post is the most relevant thing in this topic.
Anyway, I'll saaaaaaaay...happiness. Truth is overrated. Or something.
Anyway, I'll saaaaaaaay...happiness. Truth is overrated. Or something.
Blind
2262
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=1618.msg25640#msg25640 date=1217311899This. So, I think the question answers itself, maybe? :X
True happiness probably isn't even imaginable to the human mind.
A good example of this question is the Bucket List with Morgan Freeman, in one part he explains out of a survey that more people would not want to know the date of their death.
Would you like to know the date of your death?
Would you like to know the date of your death?
Blitzen
3253
author=BlindSight link=topic=1618.msg26330#msg26330 date=1217874168author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=1618.msg25640#msg25640 date=1217311899This. So, I think the question answers itself, maybe? :X
True happiness probably isn't even imaginable to the human mind.
No. There's more to it. I typed a big long thing trying to explain it but I just got really tired so this is going to have to do, I'm going to go lie down now.
Ryethe
0
author=Shadowtext link=topic=1618.msg25584#msg25584 date=1217257020
Truth doesn't exist. Well maybe it does, but it's unknowable to the human mind probably. Reality is always viewed through the filter of consciousness, and subject to one's own subjective....dealies.
So yeah, happiness. Anyone who thinks they've found truth has just bought in to a more convincing illusion.
Good point. There is the whole concept of perception vs. reality thing to consider. I largely agree with Decartes on that matter in that I can only know what I perceive for myself. Outside of that there is nothing that I can accept as true. So what I accept as truth is what I perceive or understand.
But, given the choice to witness something that would change my life for the worse or not witness it but have it still occur, I would still choose to be aware of it. My awareness of it will allow me to stengthen myself for future encounters and thus have greater happiness in the future, rather than have the potential for it to affect me later. If I could be assure that occurance would never get back to me, then obviously I take the ignorance (and thus happiness). However, due to the complex way in which our world works, I don't think this sort of assurance would ever be realistic.
In my mind the ideas are very much linked and thus you can never chose one or the other without consequences.
Reives
1087
If the ignorance that is bliss has no risk of breaking at some point in the future, I'd take it hands down.
