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Craze
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Closecorf appreciate some feedback on your 2k3 game instead of posting pictures of the hindenburg in retaliation pls. your post smacks of sadness
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=Darken
it's not the airship that's the problem but the way the shot and the idea behind it are composed. just looks like a bad parody.
How do you understand the idea behind it? Even Liberty, the one person on my side of the fence, insists that it's an invasion which is far from the truth. The problem is that you have zero context to this shot and yet, nope, totes rippin' first 5 seconds of FF4. If anything, it's a rip-off of the first military march of Legacies of Dondoran.
After having posted that screenshot, I moved a few ships around, added in another to bring the total up to 5 and the scene is going to be on screen for all of 17 seconds in which time the entirety of all airships will go from off-screen north to off-screen south; nothing about this one thing is going to change.
I've got pages upon pages of things to do to get this game out the door, including more scenes with airships in it going kamikaze and the sort (but that's a spoiler).
author=Craze
corf appreciate some feedback on your 2k3 game instead of posting pictures of the hindenburg in retaliation pls. your post smacks of sadness
Thank you, sir, can I have another?
Now if only I got more than one comment per two games that I made. :\
I'm already moving on to the hopeless ground conflict. South to ally camp.
EDIT: I just wanted to say that I love and respect you guys and that these past couple of posts were in no way meant as a strike against anyone here. This was just one of those things that I had a solid feeling about and felt that there was no other realistic way to set it up, you know? But I'm totally down with future critique.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
To be fair I was actually hoping it was an FF4 remake, that wasn't a complaint or anything. I was the first one who pointed it out, and one of my flagship games is an FF remake, and I've tried to make at least three others. So don't feel like that was some sort of accusation.
This forest scene of a ninja sneaking up on a group of beastmen in the rain is based on Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, right? I mean that was a really iconic scene
This forest scene of a ninja sneaking up on a group of beastmen in the rain is based on Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, right? I mean that was a really iconic scene
author=CashmereCatI can personally confirm that this can be super cool.
Although, now that I think of it, having some little ships like dots in the sky could be a really cool image of LOTS of ships in the distance.
A fucking massive armada blanketing the screen can really show how high them stakes are.
That's a wallpaper I made since I couldn't find any good space armada wallpapers, so I just did the practical thing and made my own.
author=CorfaisusI think this is the funniest thing I've read all week.
You can't be serious. Can't have airships now, Final Fantasy did it first. Nope nope nope.
The Hindenburg blew up because the pilot knew that later there would come a JRPG that would have airships and he couldn't bear the thought of having more than one in the annals of history. There can be only one!
Housekeeping
3571
@Corf: The airship deal isn't a matter of authorial intent; it's just the effect that's going to be conveyed. FF4 was the first Final Fantasy on snes; it was a major part of many jrpg fanatics' childhoods, so most people will see that picture and think FF4. That doesn't mean that you can't use that intertextuality to your advantage, but that's just how it is.
It does look sweet, though.
It does look sweet, though.
author=Versalialiberty
I mean, I'm not gonna deny that that scene wasn't the first that jumped into my head when I saw it, but honestly, there's not a lot of ways to frame an invasion from the sky while giving an idea as to there being more ships and allowing for cutscenes.
you guys don't limit yourselves creatively, this is patently false REACH FOR THE STARS
Oh I'm sorry, let me extrapolate on that since I didn't make myself clear (tbf, it was about 5am when I posted) - there are not a lot of ways to enable a close-up scene from a view where you can see all the character details and interactions that do not require you to remake the whole tileset. I mean, sure, you could make it diagonal, but you are going to have to customise every tile on the damn ship and it's a lot of work for one scene.
I mean, okay, there are people out there who would definitely do that and major kudos to them, but seriously? So what if you do invoke the image and feel of any game in a scene. It's a quick burst of nostalgia for those who have played the other game before, which isn't a bad thing.
So, really, what's the damage? A scene looks a little like another? Who cares?
(Also, I am now totes gonna do a fair with a bell and a blonde girl that you run into in a game just for the funsies.)
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Have the blonde girl be an amnesiac magitek knight who has been sent by her king on a mission to deliver a bomb ring to a village of summoners, and while in the process of planting the bomb you suddenly have a migraine and start hearing voices telling you "Watch out! This isn't just a reactor!"
I won't even lie, I'd play it.
Anyway if you're making an entire game and a brief moment of one of your several hundred scenes looks like the first scene of FF4, it is irrelevant. If you are posting a total of three or four screenshots that are meant to sell people on your game and convey what it is about, and one of your very small number of screenshots looks like the first scene of FF4, you are obviously going to get a much bigger reaction. That is how human brains work. I recommend simply not posting that screenshot on your game page; problem solved.
I won't even lie, I'd play it.
Anyway if you're making an entire game and a brief moment of one of your several hundred scenes looks like the first scene of FF4, it is irrelevant. If you are posting a total of three or four screenshots that are meant to sell people on your game and convey what it is about, and one of your very small number of screenshots looks like the first scene of FF4, you are obviously going to get a much bigger reaction. That is how human brains work. I recommend simply not posting that screenshot on your game page; problem solved.
Hell, that sounds great. I was gonna flip the gender, actually - make the main character girl who is extremely talkative run into a mute blonde boy (and yeah, I was gonna add more shout-out but I really like yours so yoink! Heh heh heh. But after Valentine's game.)
Zephyr
1241
I'm sure you can make a comprehensive story by mashing together all the Final Fantasys into one game somehow. Although it might get a little cluttered.
Nothing better than an amnesiac Ex-Dark Knight in a mercenary activist group attacking a mining city reactor by airships and kidnapping a princess while a huge monster attacks Corneria during a Blitzball game.
Or maybe not...
Nothing better than an amnesiac Ex-Dark Knight in a mercenary activist group attacking a mining city reactor by airships and kidnapping a princess while a huge monster attacks Corneria during a Blitzball game.
Or maybe not...
author=LockeZRUH ROH! LockeZ started talking about FF7 we are SUPER-FUCKED.
you suddenly have a migraine and start hearing voices telling you "Watch out! This isn't just a reactor!"
Aheh, anyway, on this whole debate that has started being a thing, I say fuck people and do what you want, just make sure to do it well.
I mean, the game I'm making currently is pretty obviously inspired by oddworld, and one or two of Menagerie's cutscenes are blatantly similar to scenes from Invader ZIM, but because in their final rendition the music is different and it all looks different, there's not a huge amount of people that notice.
See "The Nightmare Begins" and "Vision" for the most blatant example.
Oh, I'm working on Stage2 currently, it's becoming really complicated due to the amount of weird puzzle shit, but here's a screenshot of recent stuff.
Gonna modify sped's position and probably get rid of the yellow help sign in the future, since the player would already know how to do that.
Liberty
Oh I'm sorry, let me extrapolate on that since I didn't make myself clear (tbf, it was about 5am when I posted) - there are not a lot of ways to enable a close-up scene from a view where you can see all the character details and interactions that do not require you to remake the whole tileset. I mean, sure, you could make it diagonal, but you are going to have to customise every tile on the damn ship and it's a lot of work for one scene.
I mean, okay, there are people out there who would definitely do that and major kudos to them, but seriously? So what if you do invoke the image and feel of any game in a scene. It's a quick burst of nostalgia for those who have played the other game before, which isn't a bad thing.
So, really, what's the damage? A scene looks a little like another? Who cares?
plagarism is cool. at least change a few words/tiles around like a high school sophomore (and maybe make an airship map that looks far more interesting than they boring sheet of wood. notice how the snes game from 24 years ago has details? loleffort, at least he can use move picture command). like versalia said the knight and most of the soldiers are in the EXACT SAME SPACES, like c'mon
it also doesn't look like an airship at all, just a flying water ship, which isn't the end of the world but still lulzy if you see an armada of billowing sails magically drifting towards you
don't defend plagarism or mediocrity, it makes you look mediocre. a person puts up something in the critique thread and then gets defended over how it's okay to plagarize/look lame? k
Corfaisus
EDIT: I just wanted to say that I love and respect you guys and that these past couple of posts were in no way meant as a strike against anyone here. This was just one of those things that I had a solid feeling about and felt that there was no other realistic way to set it up, you know? But I'm totally down with future critique.
"i like this screenshot so i'm gonna put it up for critique, attack those who validly critcize it, and then tell people to stahp it pls but continue criticizing me in the future" how about no
author=CrazeThat isn't plagiarism, doofus.
plagarism is cool. at least change a few words/tiles around like a high school sophomore
don't defend plagarism or mediocrity, it makes you look mediocre. a person puts up something in the critique thread and then gets defended over how it's okay to plagarize/look lame? k
I agree with some things you've said, but saying plagiarism 16 times in a post when plagiarism isn't even what's happening here does vanish a little of your credibility, just so you know.
I'd tell you to be more careful with swinging that word around since it's a bannable offense on most forums, but this is RMN, the one RPGmaker forum I know of where the staff aren't pants-on-head retarded.
(meaning they'll look into it rather than blindly banning people because an accusation was made.)
author=CrazeLibertyplagarism is cool. at least change a few words/tiles around like a high school sophomore (and maybe make an airship map that looks far more interesting than they boring sheet of wood. notice how the snes game from 24 years ago has details? loleffort, at least he can use move picture command). like versalia said the knight and most of the soldiers are in the EXACT SAME SPACES, like c'mon
Oh I'm sorry, let me extrapolate on that since I didn't make myself clear (tbf, it was about 5am when I posted) - there are not a lot of ways to enable a close-up scene from a view where you can see all the character details and interactions that do not require you to remake the whole tileset. I mean, sure, you could make it diagonal, but you are going to have to customise every tile on the damn ship and it's a lot of work for one scene.
I mean, okay, there are people out there who would definitely do that and major kudos to them, but seriously? So what if you do invoke the image and feel of any game in a scene. It's a quick burst of nostalgia for those who have played the other game before, which isn't a bad thing.
So, really, what's the damage? A scene looks a little like another? Who cares?
it also doesn't look like an airship at all, just a flying water ship, which isn't the end of the world but still lulzy if you see an armada of billowing sails magically drifting towards you
don't defend plagarism or mediocrity, it makes you look mediocre. a person puts up something in the critique thread and then gets defended over how it's okay to plagarize/look lame? kCorfaisus
EDIT: I just wanted to say that I love and respect you guys and that these past couple of posts were in no way meant as a strike against anyone here. This was just one of those things that I had a solid feeling about and felt that there was no other realistic way to set it up, you know? But I'm totally down with future critique.
"i like this screenshot so i'm gonna put it up for critique, attack those who validly critcize it, and then tell people to stahp it pls but continue criticizing me in the future" how about no
I don't think coincidentally looking vaguely similar to the opening scene of FF4 is plagiarism. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe most people accidentally plagiarize stuff, and again, having an airship in the same position from the same point of view with some dudes on it seems like an extreme case to sound the plagiarism alarm, especially since he's said that in context, none of the rest of the details line up with the FF4 opening at all anyways.
What I do agree with you about is that Corfaisus does indeed seem to have a very poor reaction to criticism here. It's fine not to not agree with the criticism you get, but to act the way he did seemed overly silly and the whole point of posting stuff here is indeed to get feedback. Even though I don't agree with the "FF4 plagiarism" claims, I at least would be grateful that it was pointed out, rather than going overboard about it.
And the point about details is a valid one, too. While I don't find the similarity of the screenshots to FF4 compelling, what I do find compelling is how rich and detailed the FF4 screenshot is, which makes the emptiness and blandness of the RTP airship stand out. Corfaisus, you're usually really good about bringing out the best of the RTP, so I was honestly a little surprised on how empty the ships looked.
author=unityI actually just a made a post about this size explaining all of what you have just now, but then decided to just replace it with the bit of banter I did because I'm sure craze is smart enough to know the difference and is just being a poo-pants for some reason.
I don't think coincidentally looking vaguely similar to the opening scene of FF4 is plagiarism. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe most people accidentally plagiarize stuff, and again, having an airship in the same position from the same point of view with some dudes on it seems like an extreme case to sound the plagiarism alarm, especially since he's said that in context, none of the rest of the details line up with the FF4 opening at all anyways.
Supervillains man I'm telling you.
@Corfaisus: Basically, I've never played FF4, and I could give less of a shit about how it's at all similar, the ship is... as Unity said, pretty bland though, and considering most of your screenshots which are usually sparkling with detail and life, I think it could be improved.
unityIn his defense, fifty comments about how it looks like X isn't what I'd consider feedback, it's useless (and annoying) filler. I myself was surprised when this shit was going on for over a page, and most of the feedback is still "Wow, looks like FF4!"
What I do agree with you about is that Corfaisus does indeed seem to have a very poor reaction to criticism here.
"Wow! Looks like I actually don't have anything at all constructive to say so here's what everyone else has already said umpteen times already!"
Kudos to those who did give actual feedback, rather than revealing the painfully acknowledged realization-- of which anyone who's played that game could invent on their own in less time that it takes a dog to crap.
Here guys just in the spirit of this whole stupid thing:
This isn't plagiarism, it only would be if I had plans to sell it. All fan games would be plagiarist contraband by Craze's interesting definition.
Luckily for ALL of us, It's just a thing I work on for fun sometimes, I've no plans to give it out... though I have gotten requests, which I didn't expect.
Were i still working on it, I'd have updated the god-awful border on that windowskin, propobaly to a pale (80% white) orange-yellow.
Who would even want to play a neopets fanagame when Neopets itself is free, far better, in tune with its universe (by virtue of being it's benefactor) and browser-based?
The premise of making this was just me being a fan of neopets for a long-assed time, I never plan to make something of it. If I did I'd just make a new game with my universe. I already have Byteopia for heaven's sake so the slate is already there.
author=BizarreMonkeyunityIn his defense, fifty comments about how it looks like X isn't what I'd consider feedback, it's filler.
What I do agree with you about is that Corfaisus does indeed seem to have a very poor reaction to criticism here.
I don't really understand why apparently all but 3 or 4 people on this site think that warning somebody about their game looking almost tile for tile like a very iconic scene from one of the most famous JRPGs ever made is a bad thing that you shouldn't do. Please. It isn't fucking "filler". It's a really good thing to consider.
The issue here isn't one of story behind the shot, or intent to plagiarize, it's an issue of almost everybody who sees the scene saying "Wow this is like FF4". That's not a good thing, it distracts from the game because unless your project is supposed to bring back memories of a certain game, you want to avoid people thinking about other more famous games when they're trying to play yours.
And fair enough, there's a fine line when you intend to bring back feelings of classic RPGs. Corfaisus has clarified that this isn't an opening scene and the ships move and stuff, but again, the issue is that the screenshot he posted is tile for tile almost the exact same thing. That's why changing it a bit would be a good idea. If he can ride the line of making people think "ha ha, this is like FF4, cool" without having them think "This is the EXACT same scene" then his game will be better for it in the end.
I was going to just leave the debate alone after Corf said he wouldn't change anything, but please, don't just dismiss everyone's absolutely legitimate criticisms as "filler" because they're not all sunshine and butterflies. Please.
@BizarreMonkey i'm genuinely impressed by that pair of screenshots. Whoa, looks pretty damn good. =0 It looks much cleaner than what you normally do. I can sense a pretty strong sense of progression through your periodic screenies, that's good!
Now, 'tis what I've been working on. Like nurvuss said 2 pages ago but I didn't reply 'cause i'm lazy, it's totally inspired by Final Fantasy Legend! As well as FFMQ and other SNES rpgs.
totally original scene.
https://40.media.tumblr.com/790301cb39d4f61e57917aaaf6777be3/tumblr_nkn2nhtgPq1sb27vqo3_1280.png
Background from Final Fantasy Mystic Quest, but temporary.
Now, 'tis what I've been working on. Like nurvuss said 2 pages ago but I didn't reply 'cause i'm lazy, it's totally inspired by Final Fantasy Legend! As well as FFMQ and other SNES rpgs.
totally original scene.
https://40.media.tumblr.com/790301cb39d4f61e57917aaaf6777be3/tumblr_nkn2nhtgPq1sb27vqo3_1280.png
Background from Final Fantasy Mystic Quest, but temporary.
@JosephSeraph: Pretty much everything looks great, but that world map tile set is way too busy. I'm not sure I can put my finger on exactly why... Too much highlight, or too much shadow, combined with all the tiling? Whatever the case it's definitely playing with my eyes.
I love all of those, JS! The faces on the last picture are nice, too! I have to agree with Pizza about the overworld one, though. I'm not sure about what it is, but something about that overworld pic hurts my eyes! I'm at a loss for why, though :/
Thanks guys! It was directly inspired from the overworlds in the first 3 SaGa Games.
I did take a few minor liberties, though, with the tiling. As you can see in my version the mountains and the trees overlap, they don't in the original.
Though I think it's more about the palette I chose? Too vivid colors, maybe. I was kind of afraid to make another washed out and completely dead tileset so I cranked up the saturation hahaha x'D
I'll look onto that. Also, those facesets are free for use, there's about 8 of them with 12 ~ 50 expressions each and I released them for the MOG Graphics! ;w;
I did take a few minor liberties, though, with the tiling. As you can see in my version the mountains and the trees overlap, they don't in the original.
Though I think it's more about the palette I chose? Too vivid colors, maybe. I was kind of afraid to make another washed out and completely dead tileset so I cranked up the saturation hahaha x'D
I'll look onto that. Also, those facesets are free for use, there's about 8 of them with 12 ~ 50 expressions each and I released them for the MOG Graphics! ;w;
author=PizzaWould be if not for the reality that in most cases, the people giving out the shots are at the very least partially aware of its inspiration, the last thing you want to hear is strain-repetitive confirmation. I agree that it is a good thing to consider, and I myself have considered it in the past when making things, that said-- it's pointless to hear it over and over again. I gave my reasons for why, and if you are finding yourself flummoxed by the fact that you seem to be nearly alone in this opinion, then it's probably because it's not a very popular one.
I don't really understand why apparently all but 3 or 4 people on this site think that warning somebody about their game looking almost tile for tile like a very iconic scene from one of the most famous JRPGs ever made is a bad thing that you shouldn't do. Please. It isn't fucking "filler". It's a really good thing to consider.
It's not like I'm asking critique to be sunshine and rainbows, hell, I love the critique here because it is honest and has helped me see things that I didn't even consider before, such as graphic consistency, you guys inspired me to do that, so don't act like I'm here for gumdrops and ice cream, I just don't want to fill myself up on the same gumdrops and ice-cream.
So with that terrible analogy out of the way, let me clarify that I wasn't saying no one should ever do it, but it was over a fucking page of doing it, so what I'm saying is, I can understand why Corf might have been a bit defensive.
And like it or not, telling someone their this is like someone else's this is almost always filler, it's useless information in most scenarios, because it's usually inspired, on purpose or at least known about in some form already. In the rare exception that isn't the case, you've just made them disappointed that they weren't the first person to think of doing it.
PizzaThat is feedback.
@JosephSeraph: Pretty much everything looks great, but that world map tile set is way too busy. I'm not sure I can put my finger on exactly why... Too much highlight, or too much shadow, combined with all the tiling? Whatever the case it's definitely playing with my eyes.
SomeguyIforgetwhoCongrats, what a hero you are. (Person does not exist, I just made a line up to show the fullest extent of how this isn't feedback and it's often rather insulting as well.)
Lol, it looks like Final fantasy 4 on a low detail and animation budget.
author=JosephSeraphI can safely say that you guys here are partially responsible for this new direction, but I also wanted to do it myself, Dookie is right, I do need to add more detals, but right now i have a time limit for it so I'm having to spare it on that a little.
@BizarreMonkey i'm genuinely impressed by that pair of screenshots. Whoa, looks pretty damn good. =0 It looks much cleaner than what you normally do. I can sense a pretty strong sense of progression through your periodic screenies, that's good!
Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee definitely inspired the layouts and some of the mechanics. (Such as the Splode Machines and trapdoors)
Those shadows took a while to get right. Due to layer stuff I had to compose shadows on different layers for diffirent things but without crossover.
author=JosephSeraphI think the problem isn't in the world maps saturation but by the abundance of stray colors, like why do the trees have bright blue in them?
Now, 'tis what I've been working on. Like nurvuss said 2 pages ago but I didn't reply 'cause i'm lazy, it's totally inspired by Final Fantasy Legend! As well as FFMQ and other SNES rpgs.
The last screenshot is more perplexing though, why such high detail faces amongst well... that
The bars, in their gradient nature, also look too smooth, and therefore really out of place.
Outside of that, it's looking cool so far.
