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[RMVX ACE] NEED HELP MAKING A FOREST MAP
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Frogge
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CloseHello everyone.I have been trying to make a forest for an upcoming game.I have made the entrance to the forest,and I'm quite pleased with it.
Here's my forest:
The problem is,it's too small.I did not want to delete it so I just decided to make it a little entrance to a forest.
I want to make a VERY BIG(like 200x200)forest map with many secret areas and hidden treasures.
Things you should know before replying
In the game you can jump,so it is possible to climb something like this:
There should be no monsters because the main character doesn't even have a sword yet.
I wanted to make it like a mixture of faron woods from skyward sword and thwomp mountain from Mario and Luigi partners in time.
Finally,the map should have 3 exits.One leading to the waterfall,one leading to the forest temple and one leading back to Knidon(MC's village in the game).
Are there any tutorials that contain my standarts?Or maybe a map somewhere I can take inspiration from?
Here's my forest:
The problem is,it's too small.I did not want to delete it so I just decided to make it a little entrance to a forest.
I want to make a VERY BIG(like 200x200)forest map with many secret areas and hidden treasures.
Things you should know before replying
In the game you can jump,so it is possible to climb something like this:
There should be no monsters because the main character doesn't even have a sword yet.
I wanted to make it like a mixture of faron woods from skyward sword and thwomp mountain from Mario and Luigi partners in time.
Finally,the map should have 3 exits.One leading to the waterfall,one leading to the forest temple and one leading back to Knidon(MC's village in the game).
Are there any tutorials that contain my standarts?Or maybe a map somewhere I can take inspiration from?
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Good Lord, RMN's hide tags are terrible. I know it's not your fault. Get rid of the hide tags in your post though. They get buggy when combined with lists (or quotes, or code tags, or basically anything except plain text and images).
Your first map isn't bad at all. I think the style you're going for works fine, and two or three maps that size would make a nice large dungeon. You've done about all you can do for this style of forest using the built-in graphics. If this is actually your first game then you're doing a great job so far.
I don't think you'd want to make it much bigger than it already is without adding more variety to it, though. Right now it's just a plain boring forest. No one is going to enjoy searching it because there's nothing to search except a completely ordinary, 100% natural outdoor area. If there's nothing happening there then the player shouldn't be spending time there. Send the player to a place with meaningful events that are happening for a story-related reason, and those events will naturally make your forest more interesting.
Some examples from my own games:
- A forest that used to be inhabited by demon summoners until they were killed by the demons that they summoned. There are various caves with stone altars and magical fortifications, and some tents where the cultists were camped out until they were killed.
- A ruined temple within a forest. The temple is crumbling, with some hallways blocked and some walls knocked down. The player must go in and out of the temple, and wind through the forest to reach different parts of the temple.
- An enemy war camp set up in a forest. The army has set up barricades, tents, and siege weaponry which the player needs to navigate through.
Other people might have different advice but that's mine. Make it something interesting. Create an area that the player will want to know more about. Build the setting for an event that the player will want to see unfold. Your area should tell a story, even if you remove the dialogue.
Also, that HUD is hideous.
Your first map isn't bad at all. I think the style you're going for works fine, and two or three maps that size would make a nice large dungeon. You've done about all you can do for this style of forest using the built-in graphics. If this is actually your first game then you're doing a great job so far.
I don't think you'd want to make it much bigger than it already is without adding more variety to it, though. Right now it's just a plain boring forest. No one is going to enjoy searching it because there's nothing to search except a completely ordinary, 100% natural outdoor area. If there's nothing happening there then the player shouldn't be spending time there. Send the player to a place with meaningful events that are happening for a story-related reason, and those events will naturally make your forest more interesting.
Some examples from my own games:
- A forest that used to be inhabited by demon summoners until they were killed by the demons that they summoned. There are various caves with stone altars and magical fortifications, and some tents where the cultists were camped out until they were killed.
- A ruined temple within a forest. The temple is crumbling, with some hallways blocked and some walls knocked down. The player must go in and out of the temple, and wind through the forest to reach different parts of the temple.
- An enemy war camp set up in a forest. The army has set up barricades, tents, and siege weaponry which the player needs to navigate through.
Other people might have different advice but that's mine. Make it something interesting. Create an area that the player will want to know more about. Build the setting for an event that the player will want to see unfold. Your area should tell a story, even if you remove the dialogue.
Also, that HUD is hideous.
author=LockeZ
Good Lord, RMN's hide tags are terrible. I know it's not your fault. Get rid of the hide tags in your post though. They get buggy when combined with lists (or quotes, or code tags, or basically anything except plain text and images).
Better now?
author=LockeZ
Your first map isn't bad at all. I think the style you're going for works fine, and two or three maps that size would make a nice large dungeon. You've done about all you can do for this style of forest using the built-in graphics. If this is actually your first game then you're doing a great job so far.
Yeah I liked it too,but I want to make kind of a bigger map like in legend of zelda.Oh,and I should also mention the map takes very heavy inspiration from Faron Woods in skyward sword.It's not my fist game,but will possibly be the best.
author=LockeZ
I don't think you'd want to make it much bigger than it already is without adding more variety to it, though. Right now it's just a plain boring forest. No one is going to enjoy searching it because there's nothing to search except a completely ordinary, 100% natural outdoor area. If there's nothing happening there then the player shouldn't be spending time there. Send the player to a place with meaningful events that are happening for a story-related reason, and those events will naturally make your forest more interesting.
Yeah I do want to make it story oriented too,but I still want it to be a large map and make the player actually enjoy wandering around.Also,the main reason I want to have a big map is to make secret areas.
author=LockeZ
Some examples from my own games:
- A forest that used to be inhabited by demon summoners until they were killed by the demons that they summoned. There are various caves with stone altars and magical fortifications, and some tents where the cultists were camped out until they were killed.
- A ruined temple within a forest. The temple is crumbling, with some hallways blocked and some walls knocked down. The player must go in and out of the temple, and wind through the forest to reach different parts of the temple.
- An enemy war camp set up in a forest. The army has set up barricades, tents, and siege weaponry which the player needs to navigate through.
Mine is probably the second one.Maybe I should tell you my plans about the forest:
The waterfall is actually a portal to another dimension.Your friend gets dragged in the dimension but it's dangerous to go alone(get it?)so you need to go to the forest temple to get a sword.The forest temple will be mostly based on the puzzles,but maybe I may put some hazards around(like spikes,random trap generator will definetly help me out lol).When you get the sword,you will be taken to the other dimension which is a dangerous version of the forest you came from(I should also mention that in MC's dimension there are no monsters).
author=LockeZ
Other people might have different advice but that's mine. Make it something interesting. Create an area that the player will want to know more about. Build the setting for an event that the player will want to see unfold. Your area should tell a story, even if you remove the dialogue.
author=LockeZ
Also, that HUD is hideous.
In a good way or a bad way?
You don't need yer map any big to have it filled with secret areas. There has to be a trick to get them, not just a vastness excluding them from main area. With points of interest, you can inspire yourself with The Elder Scrolls game fer example. There is always an fortress, a farm or a dungeon, if you walk long enuf.
Personally, I wouldn't make map any bigger. I would make more of them instead. Classic style you can know from Bioware games. There are ruins within one, next looks plain and hides a secret cave and so on.
Personally, I wouldn't make map any bigger. I would make more of them instead. Classic style you can know from Bioware games. There are ruins within one, next looks plain and hides a secret cave and so on.
200x200 is just far, far too large. The biggest I'd go for is 60x60, but no more. Rather add more areas of interest like LockeZ mentioned if you're going for a larger, epic scale feel. Players do not like trudging through monotonous natural areas, especially if random encounters are involved ( worse if there is a battle every 5 steps >< ). Oh, and hidden areas behind waterfalls are always a win-win situation if they contain nice treasure/loot. =)
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
It's not really that large if it's the entire dungeon. 60x60 would only be big enough to get in three to five battles.
author=Luchino
200x200 is just far, far too large. The biggest I'd go for is 60x60, but no more. Rather add more areas of interest like LockeZ mentioned if you're going for a larger, epic scale feel. Players do not like trudging through monotonous natural areas, especially if random encounters are involved ( worse if there is a battle every 5 steps >< ). Oh, and hidden areas behind waterfalls are always a win-win situation if they contain nice treasure/loot. =)
No,there is no battling.Yet.There are monsters in the game but it's an action battle system.No turn based combat.And no,no secret areas behind the treasure.The waterfall is a portal to another dimension.You don't find it yourself,the cutscene does for you.
I just wrote this for feedback on another forum but it might give you a few good ideas.
====================================================================
Don't be afraid to actually have a path. If people travel through there a lot then there would be a more prominent path. If not, then it would be only in the places that people walk. Whatever the case, it would not be spread around like babby's first painting. The idea of paths are to lead a player's eye to the next logical area. It's not meant to confuse the player.
Also, a good idea is to use trees to give your paths shape. Create little side-paths but have the main one easy to see since trees are in the way of the wrong path. Lead your player with your map and the white space. At the moment it's just a bunch of trees spread all out but it's better to frame the paths. Maybe have some 'road' to lead the right way, but give the option to explore to the player.
A few examples:
A thicker, well-travelled forest path. It's a bit broken up, but it shows decent traffic. Most paths through forests to the next town would look like this. The idea is to force your players to have to go off the path. Indeed, good dungeon design allows for the player to use this thicker pathing as a short cut when they have to trek back through the forest. It's good for the main trail through a forest, though.
Sparse pathing through a forest. You can see how the path is guided slightly by the actual dirt tiles, but also see how the trees frame the way and create a blockade to areas that the player doesn't need to go, while still allowing for exploration.
============================================================================
More tips though. Consider the kind of forest you want. Do you want a forest with twists and turns, that is like a maze? Or something that's a little more straight-forward with only a few side-paths? Design around that idea. It helps a lot to have a minimap mocked up beforehand, so that you know where the main path is, especially in the case of the twisted forest.
This map is part of a straight-forward forest. You can see the path forward and move on it. There's areas off to the side but the paths themselves don't deviate from the straight road set ahead of you.
This map has the promise of possibly being able to go into other areas. I tend to block off paths to the side where you can't go, so if you touch the edge of the screen in my games, it means there's something beyond that point - you'll be teleported to another map. What does this mean? I've set a precedent early on in the game to show the player that this is the case, so when they hit that small part in the bottom left, where no trees block the way, they can expect to be taken to another area, off the main path. This gives them the option to explore.
Of course, in this game I have set up the idea that you won't be taken too far off track - that it's a small detour instead of a large, crazy one.
Now, this map looks like I'm promising the player that they'll be able to go to the bottom area of the screen, but the discerning player will know by this point that the black trees are inpassable, so that area is just decoration. It gives the illusion that the forest is more twisted and maze-like without annoying the player with too many twists and turns - it's still a maze-forest, but by adding those little areas I don't have to annoy the player with an overlong maze so that they get the point. They see that, they know there's paths, it adds to the layer of the forest and while they know they can't reach that path (or, if they did, that it'd be a dead end) they see that the forest is a maze without having to experience an hour's worth of game to prove it.
Of course, if I wanted to, I could add a treasure chest in that area and suddenly the meaning of the place changes completely - the player will now know that they will reach that place eventually, in order to get that chest, and will keep an active eye out for a path that might lead that way. I have ensured that some players (those who hunt for treasure high and low) will spend more time in the forest looking for that treasure and path. Now I no longer have to make a stupid-long forest because it is the player that has trapped themselves in the dungeon, looking for that chest. They're willingly making their way through, battling monsters, all for the sake of phat loot.
Of course, if you only give them a potion for their efforts, you will discourage them from doing so in the future - show them the prize, but make the prize worth looking for. Basic dungeon/treasure design.
Asa for forests themselves, while they are hectic and crazy when it comes to details, that doesn't mean that you should make the path hard to find. If it becomes a chore to find their way through players will give up or end up hating the game. Give them a clear path but give them the option and a reason to explore.
Block areas with trees, use undergrowth, break up lines as much as possible, consider areas that the player can't access and always watch your pathing.
====================================================================
Don't be afraid to actually have a path. If people travel through there a lot then there would be a more prominent path. If not, then it would be only in the places that people walk. Whatever the case, it would not be spread around like babby's first painting. The idea of paths are to lead a player's eye to the next logical area. It's not meant to confuse the player.
Also, a good idea is to use trees to give your paths shape. Create little side-paths but have the main one easy to see since trees are in the way of the wrong path. Lead your player with your map and the white space. At the moment it's just a bunch of trees spread all out but it's better to frame the paths. Maybe have some 'road' to lead the right way, but give the option to explore to the player.
A few examples:
A thicker, well-travelled forest path. It's a bit broken up, but it shows decent traffic. Most paths through forests to the next town would look like this. The idea is to force your players to have to go off the path. Indeed, good dungeon design allows for the player to use this thicker pathing as a short cut when they have to trek back through the forest. It's good for the main trail through a forest, though.
Sparse pathing through a forest. You can see how the path is guided slightly by the actual dirt tiles, but also see how the trees frame the way and create a blockade to areas that the player doesn't need to go, while still allowing for exploration.
============================================================================
More tips though. Consider the kind of forest you want. Do you want a forest with twists and turns, that is like a maze? Or something that's a little more straight-forward with only a few side-paths? Design around that idea. It helps a lot to have a minimap mocked up beforehand, so that you know where the main path is, especially in the case of the twisted forest.
This map is part of a straight-forward forest. You can see the path forward and move on it. There's areas off to the side but the paths themselves don't deviate from the straight road set ahead of you.
This map has the promise of possibly being able to go into other areas. I tend to block off paths to the side where you can't go, so if you touch the edge of the screen in my games, it means there's something beyond that point - you'll be teleported to another map. What does this mean? I've set a precedent early on in the game to show the player that this is the case, so when they hit that small part in the bottom left, where no trees block the way, they can expect to be taken to another area, off the main path. This gives them the option to explore.
Of course, in this game I have set up the idea that you won't be taken too far off track - that it's a small detour instead of a large, crazy one.
Now, this map looks like I'm promising the player that they'll be able to go to the bottom area of the screen, but the discerning player will know by this point that the black trees are inpassable, so that area is just decoration. It gives the illusion that the forest is more twisted and maze-like without annoying the player with too many twists and turns - it's still a maze-forest, but by adding those little areas I don't have to annoy the player with an overlong maze so that they get the point. They see that, they know there's paths, it adds to the layer of the forest and while they know they can't reach that path (or, if they did, that it'd be a dead end) they see that the forest is a maze without having to experience an hour's worth of game to prove it.
Of course, if I wanted to, I could add a treasure chest in that area and suddenly the meaning of the place changes completely - the player will now know that they will reach that place eventually, in order to get that chest, and will keep an active eye out for a path that might lead that way. I have ensured that some players (those who hunt for treasure high and low) will spend more time in the forest looking for that treasure and path. Now I no longer have to make a stupid-long forest because it is the player that has trapped themselves in the dungeon, looking for that chest. They're willingly making their way through, battling monsters, all for the sake of phat loot.
Of course, if you only give them a potion for their efforts, you will discourage them from doing so in the future - show them the prize, but make the prize worth looking for. Basic dungeon/treasure design.
Asa for forests themselves, while they are hectic and crazy when it comes to details, that doesn't mean that you should make the path hard to find. If it becomes a chore to find their way through players will give up or end up hating the game. Give them a clear path but give them the option and a reason to explore.
Block areas with trees, use undergrowth, break up lines as much as possible, consider areas that the player can't access and always watch your pathing.
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