SUPREME COURT STRIKES DOWN BANS ON GAY MARRIAGE IN US

author=JosephSeraph
I could argue that it does have the potential to mess up the minds of their children yes, as much as being a straight parent has the potential to mess up the minds of children as well...


Actually much less, because queer parents often won't be as demanding regarding sexual, professional or whatever choices, and it is true that queer people in general are a little more understanding and mature when it comes to sexuality because we've had to go through that tough questioning & understanding phase. So well, there's a risk of messing up your children's minds as long as you're human (because people do shit), but having queer parents is potentially somewhat safer due to many reasons.

To be honest JS, my parents were male and female and they sure did a horrible job of raising me so you may be right :)

bahleted

author=LockeZ
@emmych: I'm using your words to make a point you disagree with because you're being a hypocrite. You think the one situation doesn't apply to the other, but you're wrong. They're analogous.

For the record, I didn't find that quote by looking through your post history for quotes I could use against you or anything like that; I actually remembered it from when you said it. Even though you were talking about video game characters at the time, it was something that stuck with me with respect to real life as well. People aren't defined by a single trait, and it's perfectly possible to identify with someone, like them, or even love them despite hating one of the things they do. It's not fair to dismiss their value because of one little thing. Being gay is such a little thing. It doesn't really matter. Just like race and sex don't matter. They're not an identity, and suggesting that they are is exactly the source of racism and sexism and homophobia. You're a strong feminist so you can understand this: the idea that being a woman matters a lot and controls you and affects other aspects of your life besides your physical body is the source of sexism. Sexuality is the same way.

It is easy for you to say those don't matter if you aren't directly affected by those things, the truth however is that they do. The majority of the people who judge someone based on those will rarely ever stop and try to take any other part of your identity into consideration, to them, your skin colour/sexuality/etc are all you are and they often will not budge over it, sometimes the only thing you can do is tell them to "fuck off" and they might not even leave you alone after you do. There's just no talking politely to everyone, racism, homophobia, transphobia and such are so ingrained in society you simply can't.

author=LockeZ
In the meat-banning analogy, I can't say I would be happy, but if the rest of society decided that eating meat was wrong, I would just deal with it. Without getting into specifics, I don't really have to imagine what it would be like if something I liked were banned by law and and also the subject of much public hatred. That's my reality, and I get by just fine by just not doing that thing.

You wouldn't try to do anything about it? Anything at all? You'd just go along with it because society deemed it awful?
You do realize the reason the US has finally given the right to LGBT to marry is in good part due to activism, right? Just accepting things as they are won't change a thing and in some cases will make them worse.
The reason people aren't buying into the meat eater analogy might be because, and this is where it falls apart, eating meat is a choice you make, your skin colour, homosexuality, etc, those are not choices, those are things you can't change, you can't go and tell people to just not do it, you're denying them the right to express a part of who they are, which can lead to many complications, mostly mental, as they can be led to believe something is terribly wrong with them.

@slash, I did not mean to imply gay parents CAN NOT do a good job.

The story I read mentioned an 18yr old girl/woman but never mentioned her dating habits nor how the two gay parents might have interacted with her boyfriend or girlfriend.

Again, I'm very happy for the two women. I'm just a tiny bit concerned about the daughters.
There are several "straight" parents who do terrible jobs at raising kids.

Again, just a thought......

author=EdgeOfChaos
Do you believe homosexuality is a choice, Linkis?

Not sure. It MIGHT BE for some but then that would be called bi-sexual.
Also, and this is why I am a BIT thoughtful about gay adoption, a child MIGHT be swayed in that direction and that would be wrong.

On the whole, NO, sexuality is a part of the individual when in the womb.

HA, thought ya was gonna bait me into admiting I'm a gay hater did ya?? :)

author=EdgeOfChaos
Do you believe homosexuality is a choice, Linkis? You seem to be saying that gay parents will make their kids gay (or maybe I'm not understanding)

author=slash

author=LockeZ
It's funny because I'm not arguing against the supreme court ruling. The only thing I've argued for in this entire topic is that people should chill the fuck out and treat each-other with more respect instead of throwing out accusations and trying to ban each-other from the site. Apparently that idea is controversial enough to create five pages of debate, not about whether the ruling is correct, but just about whether it's okay to be civil to people who are against it.

Right, but think about it - why would you be civil to someone who wants to hurt you? People have limits to their open-mindedness. You don't try and make peace with someone who's mugging you. What CashmereCat said isn't as violent as actually mugging someone, but if someone random on the internet started insulting you for no legitimate reason, you would have no reason to try and see their side of it.

@Linkis: I have no doubt that gay parents are as capable of raising children as straight ones.

What cashmere posted was not a personal attack. It was a belief you find offensive. There's a big difference.

I completely agree. Cashmere wrote were his beliefs because he was raised a certain way. Just wanted to air his views and hoped no one hated him for it. You never know about people, he might even change his mind one day :)

author=nhubi
Linkis, I'll give you another story to give you a more balanced perspective, my neighbours are two gay women who have been in a committed relationship for over a decade, they have a 7 year old boy whose father is a gay male friend of theirs who happily donated his sperm. So the boy has two gay biological parents and an additional gay adopted parent and he's one of the most well adjusted and polite 7 years old I've ever met. So no gay males don not only adopt or surrogate males and females likewise, and they don't change their orientation. I mean until very recently the only people who could have kids were straight (and bi) people, and they raised LGBT kids, didn't they? Basic sexual orientation is hard-wired, 'nudging' won't change that, even if it happened.

BUT, now that you mention that story. And because that terrible person tried to lure me into an unjust admission.... :)
If your feelings a gay at birth and take time to grow into mature feelings for another of the same sex...what happens when a GAY man and Gay woman have a child?
What might THAT produce?? And no, I don't mean a monster :)
Could that produce a gay child???
The 7yr old you spoke about could be an angle but what his sexuality??

I'm not trying to start a fight or a deep discussion, just like I said before......WHAT IF???

Homosexuality is not genetic (though there are some studies that point to epigenetic tags via nongenetic changes in DNA packaging, but that would require a different conversation). It would be an evolutionary dead end if it was since up until the advent of modern surrogacy and IVF the ability for homosexual people to produce a child was severely curtailed. By that I mean people who were hid who they were to blend into the societies in which they lived and married and had children because that was what was expected of them, but most marriages didn't succeed since one of the partners was living a lie, so most didn't reproduce successfully. Straight people on the other hand breed like rabbits, so their particular genetic trait would become dominant and the homosexual one would die out if it was down to genetics. It's not. A straight couple can and do produce LGBT children and have been doing it since time immemorial, LGBT parents produce straight children and have been doing so since the technology became available for them to do so.

Oh and that 7 year old already likes girls. He's even brought one home on a playdate, but who care if he turns out to be gay in the end as long as he's happy and well adjusted.

@nhubi, you make a very good point. Straight people do breed like rabbits, so much so that we need all the counterbalance we can get.