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MCBACON JAM (2?) POST MORTEM
Posts
SunflowerGames
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Closeauthor=Luchino
I think I just work better alone. I won't be doing any more Jams in the future.
I think this was my sentiment before even the first one of these things came out.
Though I'm not against people designing levels or extra content for the games I make.
(I have even made changes to my games based on content provided by other users.)
captainregal
1356
I loved McBacon Jam as soon as I saw it. I would help future ones in anyway I could. This event was a huge success to me. I don't know many people on RMN that well despite being around for a along time. I love collaborating with people, nothing is more educational or motivating. I got to work on Vx Ace for the first time, test out new game mechanics, and meet real people who now know who I am!
So I would 1000% participate in McBacon Jam 3-100. More structure never hurt anyone though. My team struggled to get started once the theme was announced, perhaps something to help the teams get off the ground running would be helpful in the future.
PS: I'm always down for some sweet collaboration.
So I would 1000% participate in McBacon Jam 3-100. More structure never hurt anyone though. My team struggled to get started once the theme was announced, perhaps something to help the teams get off the ground running would be helpful in the future.
PS: I'm always down for some sweet collaboration.
I have yet to make a game at all or be in any events myself but reading though this thread I came up with a suggestion that might help. After teams are decided and settled give them all time to discuss and plan things out before start time.
Maybe a good two weeks or even a month if need be just to sort out ideas and plan out things like when to have certain parts done etc.
With the time before the event starts it could also make easier on everyone to set aside time to work on the game and be more planned out.
Another idea is maybe ask each group during the time to plan before start what their ideal amount of time would be and take that into account when setting a deadline.
Maybe my ideas will help you or inspire a better idea than mine from someone else. :)
Maybe a good two weeks or even a month if need be just to sort out ideas and plan out things like when to have certain parts done etc.
With the time before the event starts it could also make easier on everyone to set aside time to work on the game and be more planned out.
Another idea is maybe ask each group during the time to plan before start what their ideal amount of time would be and take that into account when setting a deadline.
Maybe my ideas will help you or inspire a better idea than mine from someone else. :)
NTC3
5625
All these posts asking for more structure are really tempting me into a releasing a 6-10 bullet point list of things to do and not to do, as informed by my reviewing experience. In that way, it can be incorporated into the next Jam: either officially, or just as a guide to those who struggle (which certainly seems to be a lot more frequent than last time around.)
author=NTC3
All these posts asking for more structure are really tempting me into a releasing a 6-10 bullet point list of things to do and not to do, as informed by my reviewing experience. In that way, it can be incorporated into the next Jam: either officially, or just as a guide to those who struggle (which certainly seems to be a lot more frequent than last time around.)
The whole point of this thread is to get an idea of what went right and what went wrong with both mcbacon jams, so don't be shy about speaking up.
author=NTC3
All these posts asking for more structure are really tempting me into a releasing a 6-10 bullet point list of things to do and not to do, as informed by my reviewing experience. In that way, it can be incorporated into the next Jam: either officially, or just as a guide to those who struggle (which certainly seems to be a lot more frequent than last time around.)
I've been thinking about doing this in the future, as well. A lot of it hinges on communication and making sure everyone's on the same page, which can be really hard to do with a team effort.
author=CashmereCatauthor=unityI don't know why that is, because both times I've joined the McBacon Jam my team has been successful in submitting on time. I think one needs to be careful about who they team with, but even still, I think it's important for each team member to enter with the thought process going into it that, "I'm going to give my all into this, even if I end up finishing it all by myself and I'll credit it to the team anyway". It's a statement of humility that you'll be willing to work hard on it even if no-one else does. I was just blessed to have a team that worked just as hard as I did, and I'm glad of the result.
You're probably right. I probably just need time to recover. And I did learn a lot even though no games came of it. I could be taking this harder than I should; I was possibly the most enthusiastic about teaming up with people, and it blew up in my face, twice, and that hurt. So, for the time being, I'm wary of getting hurt again, but maybe someday in the future, I'll be ready to try again.
That said, I am sad that you mightn't be so glad on joining McBacon #3, if only for the selfish idea that I want to team with you (WHO DOESN'T), or maybe it's my personal want to somehow prove to you that team games aren't so bad (even though I think you already know that, having finished the beautiful Remnants with people you love.
In short, dramas happen, not everyone is created equal, and I think we need to just soldier on no matter what.
Very true. I'm certainly not against joining a team on principle. It's just, we tend to avoid things that cause us pain. And sometimes soldiering on is harder when things haven't worked out more than once. Hopefully, though, time will make everything better.
As for Remnants, that was a case of everyone involved having the same attitude towards getting things done, working together, compromising, and generally communicating.
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
What if the max team size was reduced to three for future jams?
Coordinating a game with a three person team is already pretty demanding. Perhaps four people is simply too much to handle? Depending on how vocal each member is, the entire team runs a pretty high chance of collapsing under its own weight. The smaller the team, the less likely a person has to drop out due to RL circumstances or otherwise.
Most importantly, with a smaller team, each one's voice gets much louder, and more in depth conversations, planning, etc. can occur. It's a MUCH, MUCH smaller chance of anyone feeling left out.
In fact, that's probably what I'm going to do from now on in any group event. Even if the team size doesn't drop officially, I don't think I want to be a part of a four person group anymore. It's just too much to keep up with.
Coordinating a game with a three person team is already pretty demanding. Perhaps four people is simply too much to handle? Depending on how vocal each member is, the entire team runs a pretty high chance of collapsing under its own weight. The smaller the team, the less likely a person has to drop out due to RL circumstances or otherwise.
Most importantly, with a smaller team, each one's voice gets much louder, and more in depth conversations, planning, etc. can occur. It's a MUCH, MUCH smaller chance of anyone feeling left out.
In fact, that's probably what I'm going to do from now on in any group event. Even if the team size doesn't drop officially, I don't think I want to be a part of a four person group anymore. It's just too much to keep up with.
author=Red_Nova
What if the max team size was reduced to three for future jams?
Coordinating a game with a three person team is already pretty demanding. Perhaps four people is simply too much to handle? Depending on how vocal each member is, the entire team runs a pretty high chance of collapsing under its own weight. The smaller the team, the less likely a person has to drop out due to RL circumstances or otherwise.
Most importantly, with a smaller team, each one's voice gets much louder, and more in depth conversations, planning, etc. can occur. It's a MUCH, MUCH smaller chance of anyone feeling left out.
In fact, that's probably what I'm going to do from now on in any group event. Even if the team size doesn't drop officially, I don't think I want to be a part of a four person group anymore. It's just too much to keep up with.
I dont like enforcing hard limits too much; I'd rather let teams decide on their own whats best and how to figure out the team dynamic. HOWEVER, I can say I can relate to this, and will likely do something similar personally unless someone on damn terms with me gives me a damn good reason to do otherwise.
For the sake of comparison, I did some digging in regards to the number of posts made before the theme was revealed. I'm figuring that there were 83 posts for Myriad Cypher. Whereas, with Champs of the Bocca, there were 43 posts.
I think part of it was the longer time - mind you I'm outside looking in on this one.
But yeah, the fact that there was more time meant that people thought 'we'll add a bit more' instead of trimming down the fat (so to speak). Last time, while the deadline was extended, the chunk and plans for the games had already been decided and work had started. We had a fair amount of it done because we considered the time and went for something small instead of something a bit bigger. Two weeks is a good limit, then an additional few days on the end for polish and checks, but having longer than that lets people think 'oh, we've time' instead of feeling the crunch.
But yeah, the fact that there was more time meant that people thought 'we'll add a bit more' instead of trimming down the fat (so to speak). Last time, while the deadline was extended, the chunk and plans for the games had already been decided and work had started. We had a fair amount of it done because we considered the time and went for something small instead of something a bit bigger. Two weeks is a good limit, then an additional few days on the end for polish and checks, but having longer than that lets people think 'oh, we've time' instead of feeling the crunch.
MakioKuta
6556
author=Liberty
I think part of it was the longer time - mind you I'm outside looking in on this one.
But yeah, the fact that there was more time meant that people thought 'we'll add a bit more' instead of trimming down the fat (so to speak). Last time, while the deadline was extended, the chunk and plans for the games had already been decided and work had started. We had a fair amount of it done because we considered the time and went for something small instead of something a bit bigger. Two weeks is a good limit, then an additional few days on the end for polish and checks, but having longer than that lets people think 'oh, we've time' instead of feeling the crunch.
I know that wasn't an issue in our team; but we probably had too lofty of goals from the beginning all things considered. (typical)
That's what I mean. If you'd had a shorter time period known from the offset would you have slimmed down the ideas and goals to fit a smaller game? Very probably.
I think the McBacon Jam #2 was a success like the first. Team jams are unpredictable, you never know how many completed games you're gonna actually have. It depends on how well teams work together. I am not a huge fan of the deadline extensions, just because it makes me feel under obligation for a longer time and a month is such a long time to have the stress of a deadline on your back. The intensity with which I developed did not wane because the deadline extended - if anything it increased, but it was just because it didn't end when I planned it to, and I didn't want to let the team down so I kept going.
I think with team games you should keep the deadline static, just so people don't have to go for longer than they planned to. 1 month's a long time.
I think with team games you should keep the deadline static, just so people don't have to go for longer than they planned to. 1 month's a long time.
First Jam turned out well, was working with everyone that had the same basic vision. Turned out with Ruin Frontier, a game I'm happy to have made.
Second Jam, I guess everyone was too indecisive and didn't really have much communication going on, which I assume was due to being busy as I understand and was as well. I wasn't going to try and make everything myself, so I devoted my time to a more important cause. Eating fooooooood!
A mockup is about how far we got. Ideas were thrown around a bit but never really got around to doing stuff.
Personal recommendation, I'd say a short time frame so you know you only have a certain amount of time and not like a month. At least you can make something short and not have to worry about making some grand thing. Extensions... I'm not a big fan of them personally but sometimes they could be good. Perhaps that could be based on a majority of teams wanting one, but otherwise no extensions. And limiting it.
I do support team of 3, with being able to get some occasional outside hired help.
Might do another jam in the future, maybe.
Second Jam, I guess everyone was too indecisive and didn't really have much communication going on, which I assume was due to being busy as I understand and was as well. I wasn't going to try and make everything myself, so I devoted my time to a more important cause. Eating fooooooood!
A mockup is about how far we got. Ideas were thrown around a bit but never really got around to doing stuff.
Personal recommendation, I'd say a short time frame so you know you only have a certain amount of time and not like a month. At least you can make something short and not have to worry about making some grand thing. Extensions... I'm not a big fan of them personally but sometimes they could be good. Perhaps that could be based on a majority of teams wanting one, but otherwise no extensions. And limiting it.
I do support team of 3, with being able to get some occasional outside hired help.
Might do another jam in the future, maybe.
author=LockeZ
What was different in the first jam?
Dumb luck. It's not like there were a lot of entrants in either, so even if nothing changes it's natural that the events will have wildly different outcomes. A third MBJ would probably also be different from either the previous ones. And I don't think either of them was a failure. Both were valuable learning.
I'm probably freezing my own personal projects for a while and focus on getting commission work done. The instant gratification from being paid may get me pumped again, hopefully. I do look forward a next McBacon Jam, though I'll be a lot firmer then. I find being firm might be good as if whomever I work with rejects my firmness, at least nobody wasted their time. And if they embrace my firmness I can hold myself responsible for whatever happens and ensure it goes right until the end. I just need to avoid getting hit by the shitwreck of bad things that have been hitting me recently.
Also that does look amazing Ocean. You know I have a spot for your things.
author=Ocean
Personal recommendation, I'd say a short time frame so you know you only have a certain amount of time and not like a month.
Well, it was short until Zeig extended it by a week, so technically everyone should have planned to have finished their games a week early.
author=Ocean
Also that does look amazing Ocean. You know I have a spot for your things.
I agree - the mockup looks beautiful.
To be honest, I don't think any of us made any alterations to our plans. He had planned to have a demo done by the 9th, then RL happened and we were happy with the extension to the 16th. I had finished writing the story by the 6th, and I made no changes to it, so for us, the deadlines had no effect except to give us breathing room.
