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DRAGONSLAYING 101
Posts
Blitzen
3253
Blitzen
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CloseDragonslaying is important. It is not only important because it enhances your prestige as a hero but also because it rescues princesses, repatriates lost artifacts, and scores some wicked cool loot. I am thinking of a game that focusses primarily on the character of the dragonslayer. You slay dragons, basically. They breed like roaches and have been kidnapping princesses and eating the local sheep for far too long and someone has to put a stop to it.
So dragonslaying/bossbattling will be the bulk of the game. I want these boss battles to have the same, giant, epic, "there is no way I am conquering a thing this big this is so cool" feeling that was inspired by Shadow of the Colossus (which in my mind has definitive dragonslaying elements) or the Katina level of Starfox 64 (aka Independence Day level).How would you recommend I do this with sprites though? 3D certainly does have a way of giving a more visceral sense of scale and action when it comes to things like this.
Also, what are your personal thoughts on the role of the dragonslayer? What kind of character do you imagine him/her as? What are the motivations of the dragonslayer (aside from those previously mentioned). What kind of gameplay mechanics do you associate with dragonslaying?
What are your thoughts on the subject of sticking it to those toothy bastards?
So dragonslaying/bossbattling will be the bulk of the game. I want these boss battles to have the same, giant, epic, "there is no way I am conquering a thing this big this is so cool" feeling that was inspired by Shadow of the Colossus (which in my mind has definitive dragonslaying elements) or the Katina level of Starfox 64 (aka Independence Day level).How would you recommend I do this with sprites though? 3D certainly does have a way of giving a more visceral sense of scale and action when it comes to things like this.
Also, what are your personal thoughts on the role of the dragonslayer? What kind of character do you imagine him/her as? What are the motivations of the dragonslayer (aside from those previously mentioned). What kind of gameplay mechanics do you associate with dragonslaying?
What are your thoughts on the subject of sticking it to those toothy bastards?
If I would make a dragonslayer character, I would make him/her downright, greedy, perverted or "lonely" etc. that actually are the goals in the game playability-wise, too. I dunno, I think the character would be cool if he would be immoral instead of moral, for a change, and only consider his personal gain. Maybe he's got some sort of vendetta for the dragonkin, but instead of justifying it with something the player can sympathize with, you should do it upside down, and make the character appeal slowly throughout the game for the player.
That's what I'd like at least.
And when it comes to 2d sprites, and making the battles epic with them, I've personally considered adding phases to the battles which happen outside the actual, uh "battle window" in my own game.
Let's say you battle OMFGEPICDRAGON1, the battle starts and you beat it to some certain amount of HP, then it transists out of the battle and you need to do some, let's say ABS stuff. Kind of mix of DBS and ABS. Simply put: battles with multiple phases, varying of DBS and ABS.
That's what I'd like at least.
And when it comes to 2d sprites, and making the battles epic with them, I've personally considered adding phases to the battles which happen outside the actual, uh "battle window" in my own game.
Let's say you battle OMFGEPICDRAGON1, the battle starts and you beat it to some certain amount of HP, then it transists out of the battle and you need to do some, let's say ABS stuff. Kind of mix of DBS and ABS. Simply put: battles with multiple phases, varying of DBS and ABS.
author=YummyDrumsticks link=topic=2071.msg34322#msg34322 date=1222469654
Uh, what?
Use your imagination, YDS.
Shadowtext
120
I imagine a dragonslayer as being terribly unlucky and obsessed with barrels, and entirely redeeming any flaws that might exist in his game, even if they didn't make him the star like they should have, the bastards.
Shinan
4314
In 2d the simplest way to make dragons impressive is probably to change the scale a bit. Zoom out from the player character and suddenly make him a little dot when you see the huge dragon of doom. Alternatively using high-resolution can also make things seem more massive since you can get down to more detail.
I guess there are some other ways too. Making only part of the dragon visible. Making it so that you have to "kill" the dragon in multiple places. Also having fun gameplay puzzle-like mechanics in how you kill the dragon. Create traps, use different items/bait/whatever.
There's lots of dragon-killing fiction and some of them have clever ways of disposing of them that isn't completely dependent on brute force. (Make sure to have one riddle-dragon)
But yeah, in 3d it's generally easier to get the zoom-woosh effect. But it can be done in 2d as well, even though it'd probably take a lot more work. It all depends on what scale you want to start in. To get the best effect perhaps the general game should be pretty close up and then the boss battles zoomed out. But to make it easier on the spriting side you could also always have it zoomed out.
Using cut-scene illustrations or animation could also be a good way to show-off epicness. (or lack thereof... the picture I'm getting in my head is a slayer carrying a bag of gold running happily out of a dragon cave from where there's a speech bubble that says something like "you bastard!")
As for the character of the dragonslayer I sort of see him as a very-much-professional. Going into a village asking questions defining the dragon ("ah, so it's a blue dragon. Approximate age? 500 years? ooh this is a old one. Does he have a lot of treasure? Hmm, might be a tough one."), then getting the supplies, some helping hands and all the other stuff needed to get rid of a pest.
Then, depending on his professional opinion, he will dispose of the dragon in a manner that seems suitable.
For the dragons themselves I think it's important to remember that dragons are (usually) intelligent creatures. In most old tales they can talk and usually have pretty awesome magics (going from mind control to shape-shifting). They are usually also very vain, hoarding treasure and liking the challenge that slayers pose. Often tending to play with an inexperienced meal rather than kill it outright. It's difficult to outsmart a dragon but it's not impossible.
Dragons also tend to be naturally dishonorable, rarely keeping their words.
But of course there are as many dragons as there are tales of them but this is the kind of dragon I most prefer.
I guess there are some other ways too. Making only part of the dragon visible. Making it so that you have to "kill" the dragon in multiple places. Also having fun gameplay puzzle-like mechanics in how you kill the dragon. Create traps, use different items/bait/whatever.
There's lots of dragon-killing fiction and some of them have clever ways of disposing of them that isn't completely dependent on brute force. (Make sure to have one riddle-dragon)
But yeah, in 3d it's generally easier to get the zoom-woosh effect. But it can be done in 2d as well, even though it'd probably take a lot more work. It all depends on what scale you want to start in. To get the best effect perhaps the general game should be pretty close up and then the boss battles zoomed out. But to make it easier on the spriting side you could also always have it zoomed out.
Using cut-scene illustrations or animation could also be a good way to show-off epicness. (or lack thereof... the picture I'm getting in my head is a slayer carrying a bag of gold running happily out of a dragon cave from where there's a speech bubble that says something like "you bastard!")
As for the character of the dragonslayer I sort of see him as a very-much-professional. Going into a village asking questions defining the dragon ("ah, so it's a blue dragon. Approximate age? 500 years? ooh this is a old one. Does he have a lot of treasure? Hmm, might be a tough one."), then getting the supplies, some helping hands and all the other stuff needed to get rid of a pest.
Then, depending on his professional opinion, he will dispose of the dragon in a manner that seems suitable.
For the dragons themselves I think it's important to remember that dragons are (usually) intelligent creatures. In most old tales they can talk and usually have pretty awesome magics (going from mind control to shape-shifting). They are usually also very vain, hoarding treasure and liking the challenge that slayers pose. Often tending to play with an inexperienced meal rather than kill it outright. It's difficult to outsmart a dragon but it's not impossible.
Dragons also tend to be naturally dishonorable, rarely keeping their words.
But of course there are as many dragons as there are tales of them but this is the kind of dragon I most prefer.
I really like Shinan's post (professional info-gathering hero that hires mercs and gets the right equipment, then slays "dragons" who might be shape-shifted into sorcerors or rocs or WHATEVER).
Killing different parts of the dragon is good, too.
Maybe the hero has the ability to polymorph things can turn GIANT DRAGONZ into other, smaller creatures? Maybe he can enter the minds of dragons and fix their inner workings to make them nicer? I dunno, I'm trying to think of ways to fix your graphic problems.
Killing different parts of the dragon is good, too.
Maybe the hero has the ability to polymorph things can turn GIANT DRAGONZ into other, smaller creatures? Maybe he can enter the minds of dragons and fix their inner workings to make them nicer? I dunno, I'm trying to think of ways to fix your graphic problems.
Blitzen
3253
Those are some good ideas, Shinan.
I never thought of the idea of the dragonslayer as businessman though. I would have thought of him/her as more of a gunslinger, going about his way in wanderlust or something and taking down dragons that cross his/her path.
What I think would be really cool is if there is one really big dragon that SWALLOWS the hero. So then he is walking around inside the dragon and he makes his way to the dragon's heart and cuts it open and gets the ruby inside. The dragon collapses and sort of crashes into the ground and as his head hits the dirt the mouth flops oopen and out rolls the hero.
I never thought of the idea of the dragonslayer as businessman though. I would have thought of him/her as more of a gunslinger, going about his way in wanderlust or something and taking down dragons that cross his/her path.
What I think would be really cool is if there is one really big dragon that SWALLOWS the hero. So then he is walking around inside the dragon and he makes his way to the dragon's heart and cuts it open and gets the ruby inside. The dragon collapses and sort of crashes into the ground and as his head hits the dirt the mouth flops oopen and out rolls the hero.
Discoveria
150
Dragons in Chinese mythology are much different from Western dragons, e.g. they are symbols of good luck (I believe). That could add an interesting twist to the game.
Go all Dragonheart with a Dragon that the player tries to kill, and that tries to kill the player, but end in a stalemate (and possibly join the party).
Here is how I would (do) handle dragons:
Okay, so I think the key here is to make the dragons fucking scary. Incredibly scary. I think even the youngest and stupidest and sickliest and weakest dragon needs to be much smarter, craftier, more charismatic, and more clever and better at scheming than the shrewdest human rogue, needs to wield more arcane knowledge and power than the oldest and most brilliant human wizard, and of course, in terms of RAW KILLING POWER, needs to be able to easily take apart an army by itself.
I think you need to make the dragon(s) the rockstar, the fonz, the sephiroth. Make the dragon cooler than the slayer. What I'm saying is to draw out the david versus goliath nature of the fight as much as possible. DO everything possible with cutscenes, dialogue, atmosphere, dungeon building to leave every single hint that the player CANNOT POSSIBLY WIN and should TURN BACK NOW. Like, make it so that the player is ACTUALLY AFRAID OF THE DRAGON, BECAUSE DRAGON'S ARE SCARY, THE ULTIMATE MONSTER. When (if) the player manages to slay the dragon, it should feel like the greatest accomplishment of his/her life.
Make the dragon a character, not just a monster. Make the dragon noble, likeable, smart, scary, totally awesome.
I think a cool mechanic would be to have the player moving through the dragon's cave, and the dragon breathing fire at him as an obstacle in the dungeon long before the player reaches the dragon, a la the dungeon levels in the original Super Mario Brothers only much deadlier.
Oh and I think giving the dragon the ability to take a totally normal human form and talk to the player, while retaining all of the dragon's strength and power, is like a must. Especially if the player just meets a humanoid in the dungeon, and they have a weird/unnerving conversation, and then all of a sudden the NPC is like..."Oh, DIDN'T YOU GUESS? I'M THE DRAGON." and a huge epic boss fight suddenly begins OUT OF NOWHERE.
Okay, so I think the key here is to make the dragons fucking scary. Incredibly scary. I think even the youngest and stupidest and sickliest and weakest dragon needs to be much smarter, craftier, more charismatic, and more clever and better at scheming than the shrewdest human rogue, needs to wield more arcane knowledge and power than the oldest and most brilliant human wizard, and of course, in terms of RAW KILLING POWER, needs to be able to easily take apart an army by itself.
I think you need to make the dragon(s) the rockstar, the fonz, the sephiroth. Make the dragon cooler than the slayer. What I'm saying is to draw out the david versus goliath nature of the fight as much as possible. DO everything possible with cutscenes, dialogue, atmosphere, dungeon building to leave every single hint that the player CANNOT POSSIBLY WIN and should TURN BACK NOW. Like, make it so that the player is ACTUALLY AFRAID OF THE DRAGON, BECAUSE DRAGON'S ARE SCARY, THE ULTIMATE MONSTER. When (if) the player manages to slay the dragon, it should feel like the greatest accomplishment of his/her life.
Make the dragon a character, not just a monster. Make the dragon noble, likeable, smart, scary, totally awesome.
I think a cool mechanic would be to have the player moving through the dragon's cave, and the dragon breathing fire at him as an obstacle in the dungeon long before the player reaches the dragon, a la the dungeon levels in the original Super Mario Brothers only much deadlier.
Oh and I think giving the dragon the ability to take a totally normal human form and talk to the player, while retaining all of the dragon's strength and power, is like a must. Especially if the player just meets a humanoid in the dungeon, and they have a weird/unnerving conversation, and then all of a sudden the NPC is like..."Oh, DIDN'T YOU GUESS? I'M THE DRAGON." and a huge epic boss fight suddenly begins OUT OF NOWHERE.
lichlord
13
Or you could look at the creature that is the dragon in terms of as I like to call myself a Dracologist...Dragons have the natural ability called "the Aura of fear" which in the most literal sense makes you shit your pants!
The players character could possibly become frozen on random turns,out of pure fright.
And a story issue--dragons are required to eat precious metals and ores such as diamonds, coal, rubies and emeralds to be able to breath fire, and some powerful dragon have a single large downfall, they have a fragile heart, although it is in several cases surrounded by a so-said precious metal or ore.
And one more little tidbit of intelligence, drakelings or baby dragons, always have a mother near.
Excluding the Marine Iris dragon, whom believes their children must be strong enough to survive from the start of its life.
Oh sorry one more things, Dragons are magical creatures, and thus can mate with any other creature (OMG! DRAGOBEAR!?!!) and can also speak every language it hears, although most choose to speak telepathically. Thats if they have the incentive to talk in the stead of feasting instantaneously.
The players character could possibly become frozen on random turns,out of pure fright.
And a story issue--dragons are required to eat precious metals and ores such as diamonds, coal, rubies and emeralds to be able to breath fire, and some powerful dragon have a single large downfall, they have a fragile heart, although it is in several cases surrounded by a so-said precious metal or ore.
And one more little tidbit of intelligence, drakelings or baby dragons, always have a mother near.
Excluding the Marine Iris dragon, whom believes their children must be strong enough to survive from the start of its life.
Oh sorry one more things, Dragons are magical creatures, and thus can mate with any other creature (OMG! DRAGOBEAR!?!!) and can also speak every language it hears, although most choose to speak telepathically. Thats if they have the incentive to talk in the stead of feasting instantaneously.
I like Max McGee's view on this directing-wise. Sounds like very enjoyably way directed game of the dragon theme to me.
suzuricho
283
author=Shadowtext link=topic=2071.msg34325#msg34325 date=1222470546
I imagine a dragonslayer as being terribly unlucky and obsessed with barrels, and entirely redeeming any flaws that might exist in his game, even if they didn't make him the star like they should have, the bastards.
I want a game where he's the star!!
