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WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THE FAN GAMES HERE AFTER WHAT HAPPENED TO THE METROID 2 PROJECT
Posts
GreatRedSpirit
View playlists
Closeauthor=SgtMettool
Bumping because Nintendo has apparently just DMCA'd 500+ fangames all at once.
http://fireside.gamejolt.com/post/dmca-notices-for-fangames-bzc9h583
So it seems Nintendo's going after fangames en masse. This is getting pretty intense.
I like how they couldn't even bother to add line breaks between each of the 500 games in teh DMCA notice. It's just an endless wall of URL links.
I hope they don't come here and kick over every SMBX game
e: quote for newpage
From another thread on the Nintendo takedowns:
author=fIt sounds like what drew Nintendo's ire was monetizing the plagiarism of their content through ad revenue. This is pretty consistent with their behavior on Youtube with regards to their IP.
Looking into the issue, it seems that developers on Game Jolt get 30% of the ad revenue generated from any of their projects. Details of this program are laid out here, but it basically boils down to the fact that developers are making money from their use of Nintendo’s IP.
author=GreatRedSpiritCool! Mario vs the Moon Base made the list!author=SgtMettoolI like how they couldn't even bother to add line breaks between each of the 500 games in teh DMCA notice. It's just an endless wall of URL links.
Bumping because Nintendo has apparently just DMCA'd 500+ fangames all at once.
http://fireside.gamejolt.com/post/dmca-notices-for-fangames-bzc9h583
So it seems Nintendo's going after fangames en masse. This is getting pretty intense.
I hope they don't come here and kick over every SMBX game
e: quote for newpage
http://gamejolt.com/games/mario-vs-the-moon-base/9945
EDIT:
Nintendo hasn't emailed me to my knowledge... *goes and checks*
EDIT:
nope! we are too small potatoes
author=Sailerius
From another thread on the Nintendo takedowns:author=f
Looking into the issue, it seems that developers on Game Jolt get 30% of the ad revenue generated from any of their projects. Details of this program are laid out here, but it basically boils down to the fact that developers are making money from their use of Nintendo’s IP.
It sounds like what drew Nintendo's ire was monetizing the plagiarism of their content through ad revenue. This is pretty consistent with their behavior on Youtube with regards to their IP.
Ahh, I was wondering what brought on Nintendo's wrath on Game Jolt. Thanks for sharing this.
BadLuck
2270
I have to wonder what AM2R expected. Why not just make a game that's similar to Metroid with your own story/setting/vision and then just sell it?
It seems inexplicably ridiculous to me to just ride on another company's IP when you can make the -exact- same game on your own with different music and a different main character.
Frankly, even though AM2R is fantastic, they got what they deserved. Just call it "Space Bounty Hunter" and change the main character graphics and music and not only can you distribute the game freely, you can sell it.
It seems inexplicably ridiculous to me to just ride on another company's IP when you can make the -exact- same game on your own with different music and a different main character.
Frankly, even though AM2R is fantastic, they got what they deserved. Just call it "Space Bounty Hunter" and change the main character graphics and music and not only can you distribute the game freely, you can sell it.
I completely agree with people saying they should have just made their own IP. That's what bothers me about Mother 4 as well. It's almost a unique game. They should have just made a super Mother inspired game instead.
Nintendo waited until they were done at least and for people to have it. They HAD to end it, especially since I heard profit was being made. But people still have it and it's super easy to download still from what I hear.
Nintendo waited until they were done at least and for people to have it. They HAD to end it, especially since I heard profit was being made. But people still have it and it's super easy to download still from what I hear.
BadLuck
2270
Yeah, but I do understand the whole passion project thing. And a non-Metroid AM2R probably wouldn't have garnered as much attention. And I also understand fan projects here on RMN because making your own graphics isn't realistic for most people, so rips or default stuff is your only real option.
But AM2R... it was built from the ground up. Can you really not be passionate about a game if you're not copying some of the maps from Metroid 2? Maybe you can't. I don't know. I briefly tried a Secret of Mana remake in RPG Maker, so I get the appeal. AM2R just seems like such a wasted opportunity though.
But AM2R... it was built from the ground up. Can you really not be passionate about a game if you're not copying some of the maps from Metroid 2? Maybe you can't. I don't know. I briefly tried a Secret of Mana remake in RPG Maker, so I get the appeal. AM2R just seems like such a wasted opportunity though.
author=zDS
I completely agree with people saying they should have just made their own IP. That's what bothers me about Mother 4 as well. It's almost a unique game. They should have just made a super Mother inspired game instead.
Mother 4 is going to cause even more of a ruckus when it's done. That game has been in development for 9+ years. People are pleading that they change the name and rework it into an original IP in light of recent events, but it doesn't seem like they're going to listen.
Housekeeping
3571
It's a lot easier to get a spotlight on your game if you're building off existing properties. The paradox of a lot of these fan games is if they didn't brand themselves after Mother, Pokemon, Metroid, etc., then they wouldn't have gotten nearly the same amount of exposure in the first place.
The travesty of the FF Mystic Quest rpg maker remake is a good example of this. Anyone in the rpg maker community recognized it as a half-assed knockoff, but it got more exposure than any game on this site (save for maybe Pom). While people are always hungry for new games, there's so much garbage on the market that it's a lot easier to flock to brands that they trust. So, I understand why the Metroid 2 project wasn't called Spacegirl Saves the Brainbug; no one would have cared about it, and it probably wouldn't have gotten made in the first place. They could rebrand and change the assets now, but it feels pretty dishonest to someone who's trying to build something new from the ground up.
I mean, if I were them and I'd put that much work into the project, I would do that, but I just want to preemptively feel bitter about it.
The travesty of the FF Mystic Quest rpg maker remake is a good example of this. Anyone in the rpg maker community recognized it as a half-assed knockoff, but it got more exposure than any game on this site (save for maybe Pom). While people are always hungry for new games, there's so much garbage on the market that it's a lot easier to flock to brands that they trust. So, I understand why the Metroid 2 project wasn't called Spacegirl Saves the Brainbug; no one would have cared about it, and it probably wouldn't have gotten made in the first place. They could rebrand and change the assets now, but it feels pretty dishonest to someone who's trying to build something new from the ground up.
I mean, if I were them and I'd put that much work into the project, I would do that, but I just want to preemptively feel bitter about it.
Kaliesto
583
author=GreatRedSpiritauthor=SgtMettoolI like how they couldn't even bother to add line breaks between each of the 500 games in teh DMCA notice. It's just an endless wall of URL links.
Bumping because Nintendo has apparently just DMCA'd 500+ fangames all at once.
http://fireside.gamejolt.com/post/dmca-notices-for-fangames-bzc9h583
So it seems Nintendo's going after fangames en masse. This is getting pretty intense.
I hope they don't come here and kick over every SMBX game
e: quote for newpage
I hate to say it, but eventually will be next on their list.
TheNecromancer
3160
I played the Metroid game in question and didn't really care for it. I found it very twitchy to control. Looks amazing though.
Toaster_Team
966
It's a lot easier to get a spotlight on your game if you're building off existing properties. The paradox of a lot of these fan games is if they didn't brand themselves after Mother, Pokemon, Metroid, etc., then they wouldn't have gotten nearly the same amount of exposure in the first place.
The travesty of the FF Mystic Quest rpg maker remake is a good example of this. Anyone in the rpg maker community recognized it as a half-assed knockoff, but it got more exposure than any game on this site (save for maybe Pom). While people are always hungry for new games, there's so much garbage on the market that it's a lot easier to flock to brands that they trust. So, I understand why the Metroid 2 project wasn't called Spacegirl Saves the Brainbug; no one would have cared about it, and it probably wouldn't have gotten made in the first place. They could rebrand and change the assets now, but it feels pretty dishonest to someone who's trying to build something new from the ground up.
I really like this interpretation, I find it very lucid.
I would nuance it somewhat by saying that fangames are not always created because they want to ride on the coattails of famous games. Some people really like those types of universes so much they want to create something that's part of it. They do get the benefit of the "fame" of the original but it's not the main motivation behind the actual creation.
The other issue is that famous games became famous for a reason; they excelled in some way which allowed them to stand out from their competitors. This isn't some random event that happened just because. They had exceptional level design, writing or gameplay for example. The problem with wanting to tackle fangames of those masterpieces is that you indirectly have to meet the same level of quality. This is where everything comes crumbling because very few people have the resources or the skills to make fangames which even come close to the originals.
They ultimately get compared and strongly criticized for being mediocre since they're compared to things which are legendary.
It's not always the case of course (the game seems to meet the Metroid standards I understand) but it's sometimes the case.
The other issue I see is that there's such a thing as a creative identity. The reason I always watch films from a certain directors or read books from a certain writer is because they have their own, personal unique touch. It's a representation of what they are as person and as they're unique people, it's almost impossible to reproduce their artistic take on things.
Ultimately, I can't help but feel that fangames are in a way a shortcoming in their lack of originality. Everyone can create their own personal universe. The guy who made this game could have gone the extra mile and individualize the actual game with his own personal touch, his own unique protagonist and so on. It requires effort and trial and error but it's definitely possible.
In the case of AM2R I'd say that it's outright superior to anything Metroid-related that Nintendo has put out in the past decade:) and it's far better than any other offerings of Metroid2 specifically.
I don't fully agree that fan games can be better by being original. While that seems true on the surface the entire Easy Indie scene shows us that many people just don't have the creative capacity to go "I liked Princess Maker but let's change some fundamentals and make Long Live the Queen instead". Many people also don't have the planning and charisma skills to lead a project that requires working with musicians, artists, and other asset-makers because they can't do it themselves. They lack the skill to avoid the absolutely countless art and music thieves that would ruin their reputation as a dev forever. Making all high-quality custom assets from scratch is a gigantic drain on a person and for 99.9% of the population, it's just completely unreasonable.
Then there's the design of the game itself to consider. Would AM2R have been so awesome if the dev didn't work inside the Metroid 2 framework? Possibly not. He was already brutally pressed for resources as was. If 100% of them needed to be redesigned completely from scratch then he would've had to abandon the project. It's a lot easier to get help when your project is something that's loved by all.
I have a friend who's an ace programmer. He's really, really good at what he does and holds a very high-end job because of it. But there's no way he could ever lead a team of people and any time he's bounced a creative idea off me it's been pretty terrible.
The way I see it, fan projects fall into three categories.
1) Clones. These are the Rosenkreuzstilettes, the Freedom Planets, etc. They're mechanically either the exact same game or just slightly different. Many of them are simply graphics hacks. For example, when I found that all of Saa Ushida's graphics were editable right in the game folder I was quick to turn reskin everything into Nanoha-related stuff. People generally don't make a bad game here because the game is the same. The worst that can come of it is that their reskin is buggy or ugly.
2) Remakes. AM2R falls into here. It's basically the same thing with a new (very pretty) coat of paint and some modern conveniences added. Another example is the Guardic Legend remake. This requires talent for updating all assets as well as design skill for any modernizations that need to be made and if they fail to make the fans smile it's usually due to it lacking in those areas.
3) Reimaginings. Here you get a broad range from your Touhouvanias (hell, 99% of the Touhou fan games) to Axiom Verge, etc. All the themes are present but the core game is noticably different, usually as a result of marrying two different games (Like Castlevania, Contra, Metroid, etc) or by changing the genre entirely (like Tsukihime the visual novel to Melty Blood the fighting game). The toughest of the bunch to make, and I'd argue that in some cases this is even tougher than making a completely new game. Being faithful to the sources while still branching out is difficult.
Once my current project and it's sequel are done I'd like to make a fan game for a certain thing (and I know it won't get C&D Hammered) so it's interesting to me to see all these different opinions on the validity of fan games.
I don't fully agree that fan games can be better by being original. While that seems true on the surface the entire Easy Indie scene shows us that many people just don't have the creative capacity to go "I liked Princess Maker but let's change some fundamentals and make Long Live the Queen instead". Many people also don't have the planning and charisma skills to lead a project that requires working with musicians, artists, and other asset-makers because they can't do it themselves. They lack the skill to avoid the absolutely countless art and music thieves that would ruin their reputation as a dev forever. Making all high-quality custom assets from scratch is a gigantic drain on a person and for 99.9% of the population, it's just completely unreasonable.
Then there's the design of the game itself to consider. Would AM2R have been so awesome if the dev didn't work inside the Metroid 2 framework? Possibly not. He was already brutally pressed for resources as was. If 100% of them needed to be redesigned completely from scratch then he would've had to abandon the project. It's a lot easier to get help when your project is something that's loved by all.
I have a friend who's an ace programmer. He's really, really good at what he does and holds a very high-end job because of it. But there's no way he could ever lead a team of people and any time he's bounced a creative idea off me it's been pretty terrible.
The way I see it, fan projects fall into three categories.
1) Clones. These are the Rosenkreuzstilettes, the Freedom Planets, etc. They're mechanically either the exact same game or just slightly different. Many of them are simply graphics hacks. For example, when I found that all of Saa Ushida's graphics were editable right in the game folder I was quick to turn reskin everything into Nanoha-related stuff. People generally don't make a bad game here because the game is the same. The worst that can come of it is that their reskin is buggy or ugly.
2) Remakes. AM2R falls into here. It's basically the same thing with a new (very pretty) coat of paint and some modern conveniences added. Another example is the Guardic Legend remake. This requires talent for updating all assets as well as design skill for any modernizations that need to be made and if they fail to make the fans smile it's usually due to it lacking in those areas.
3) Reimaginings. Here you get a broad range from your Touhouvanias (hell, 99% of the Touhou fan games) to Axiom Verge, etc. All the themes are present but the core game is noticably different, usually as a result of marrying two different games (Like Castlevania, Contra, Metroid, etc) or by changing the genre entirely (like Tsukihime the visual novel to Melty Blood the fighting game). The toughest of the bunch to make, and I'd argue that in some cases this is even tougher than making a completely new game. Being faithful to the sources while still branching out is difficult.
Once my current project and it's sequel are done I'd like to make a fan game for a certain thing (and I know it won't get C&D Hammered) so it's interesting to me to see all these different opinions on the validity of fan games.
Housekeeping
3571
author=Toaster_Team
I really like this interpretation, I find it very lucid.
I would nuance it somewhat by saying that fangames are not always created because they want to ride on the coattails of famous games. Some people really like those types of universes so much they want to create something that's part of it. They do get the benefit of the "fame" of the original but it's not the main motivation behind the actual creation.
Oh, yeah, definitely; I'd say the vast majority of fan games come from a place of love for the original. I meant to suggest that the spotlight is just an inevitable outcome rather than the motivation to make a fan game. People want to experience something like the original so badly that a fan game has to be pretty damn terrible to not find an audience. And, yeah, a lot of those devs are setting their audiences up for disappointment since recreating that original is really tough.
author=WolfCoder
I want to play Spacegirl Saves the Brainbug
I hereby relinquish all rights to that title. Go nuts, world.
