[MAFIA] THE RESISTANCE: AVALON MAFIA - GAME ON

author=PlatinumAshes

author=Cap_H
23
Hm, I think that the way PA talks about nk is wifom. It's misleading.

What does wifom mean? And why am I misleading?

Wine in front of your eyes. You can't know why and if they chose to hunt Ozzy and making assumptions like this might be taken as creating a narrative, which is a wolfy agenda.
Rereading the post, It looks more innocent, but I indeed got that meaning the first time that you have an extra information and that it is a possible misleading move.

author=cap
I think Muffle's annoyed wall is problematic. I think she might be faking the dramatic tone.

Bold of you to assume my frustration for being called out for sleeping is fake and dramatic. You can literally ask anyone here I am an emotional player, any frustration or emotion I put into my posts are definitely not fake. For example, this comment frustrates me. I woke up missing 4 pages and two people saying I'm scummy because I'm quiet when I was asleep. So yes I was annoyed. Whether this comment itself sounds bad or not I couldn't care less.

author=lockez
Yellow Magic: Asking people to avoid "excessive metagaming" and trying to make them ashamed of it bothers the hell out of me. Comparing how someone acts to how they "should" act is a huge part of of the game! Asking people to deliberately not use information they have, and to try to make less-informed decisions, seems like a blatant scum tactic to me.

Yeah kind of, I didn't want to say anything because I understand the whole disliking meta game and he kind of was a bit aggressive about it when I did it which kind of put me in "crap im sorry" mode but this was something I thought of. I should have said something but my submissive apologetic personality held me back but now considering someone has already said it I feel more comfortabe expanding, now I wouldn't have thought anything of him mentioning he disliked metagaming and to please not do it if his wording wasn't as aggressive, that's the main thing that has struck me odd in this game about YM and why I have a bad feeling about him. I'm going to put my entire opinion on YM here and why I have a bad feeling about them.

First of all, YM hasn't posted much. YM has made it clear that is because of work and being busy which is totally fine, however as a rule I am always cautious of players that don't talk much. Their posts are short, very short, which again isn't the biggest problem except to me it seems like YM doesn't want to participate or say much as to avoid saying something suspicious, which is truly in the end a great scum play (annoying but clever).

Another thing is the only things YM has talked about in his posts is his dislike for meta gaming and pushing it on people not to despite that being a part of the game, also he was very quick to lynch me in the beginning. Now I understand his reasoning for lynching for the fact I expressed an idea of not lynching D1 and I have no need to explain my reasoning again (I'm also glad we didn't No lynch, despite there being a fail my worry of 2 townies dying by D2 has been dismissed due to likely lancelot hit). I expected some people to suspect me when I mentioned that but I thought mentioning a safe plan idea that has worked in the past would be a better idea than staying quiet considering I didn't have much else to say D1.

Now my problem isn't his idea for lynching me but some of his posts ring really aggressive.

author=LockeZ
]Muffle being non-confrontational just sounds like Muffle to me, lol.

I have no idea what she normally sounds like and quite frankly I don't care (see my earliest post on meta)

Here he wouldn't even consider to listen about LockeZ saying "Muffle isn't acting weird" because it was meta. I understand he had already formed his own opinion but it feels... scummy? to me.

YM has been on me since D1 which I get. He pushed me to be less hesitant which caused me to give a list of opinions (which apparently Gourd called mimicking sigh, one reason I didn't wanna say much) that ended up being helpful, however looking back at YM's post not once do I see YM giving any opinions on anyone else except his excessive want to lynch me.

Now maybe YM is just really, really busy but I find it odd he pushed me to make a list and form my own opinions when he hasn't said really anything about anyone else about me, now he has backed off a bit now due to me not waiting on the IF train (I don't know what this means considering I was asleep and whether its believable or not, after IF's replies I deemed him as town but didn't have a chance to say anything) and making my own list which I suppose his goal was to get me to but I'm lacking to understand why he pushed me so hard yet hasn't given the same kind of information that could be helpful to town, and to me it seems like he's trying not to say much to avoid sounding scummy in any way.

My problem isn't him trying to lynch me it's the way he went about it and his lack of trying to help town despite pushing me to help town and calling me scummy and suspicious when I was hesitant to do so.

Also wanna apologize for any messy posts. I thought I was doing good and making points and giving good information orz so I don't really understand how I'm messy besides the fumbling of me trying to be too helpful. If anyone could point this out so I may better understand and be more helpful if I am making messy points than I'd appreciate that, somehow I feel me trying to be helpful isn't helpful. Also I just woke up, literally just woke up, so if anything doesn't make sense sorry.

Now because I believed IF I'm looking back at his three gut scum feelings, psy, piano and demon to see if I can think of anything, perhaps he was getting somewhere. I've had a weird feeling from demon since D1, piano is a strong townlead still but I have made it clear I'll never be too cautious of him and psy has been a neutral lead leaning towards town on D2.

Also I just wanna mention that this has been bothering me since D1 end.

author=cap
Sorry, IF, you were doing fine, but now you're outed.

This line seems really really scummy to me however this could be Cap's aggressive play, besides that the only thing scummy I can see from is his excessive want to lynch PA since day 1, I'm just gonna say right now btw looking back at PA's post I'm reading him as town. He made a weird prank at the beginning but otherwise I see nothing strange from him and the fact people keep holding that against him considering he mentioned he was gonna be merlin before the game then did a claim that was obviously fake... is it because of the roles that everyone's on edge? Generally role claims on D1 especially such a claim is obviously a joke, so I don't quite understand why D2 is still suspecting him of such a small thing.

D1 IF and PA were neutral leaning towards scum, by the end of D1 before I could even reply I figured IF was town and today I think PA is leaning towards town, am I missing anything else against PA except the prank thing? If anything it seems a bit opportunistic, and I know it's already been mentioned but Cap was extremely opportunistic in the beginning with this, just because of his aggressive play I'm not going to bypass this.

I don't have much else to say on anyone else right now and my brain is crapped after this long post, I hope it makes sense.

Oh otherwise; the things in my list that have changed from D2

Scumreads: YM
Townreads: Piano, LockeZ, Ozzy (believing his claim for now), Ky - That's a big least of town reads and if you want my opinion on who would be most likely scum out of those I hate to say it but my eyes kind of on piano, however I have no proof besides a slight backbone on the "if there is a scum in this group", IF's reads and my own caution.
Neutral Town Lean: Odd, PA & psy has joined the list here.
Neutral Town Scum Lean: Cap has joined the list here as well as Gourd, I can't shake a feeling off Gourd.

Just a note: The only people who have mentioned I mimicked opinions were Gourd and Cap if I'm reading back right, everyone else said my list was helpful. I already mentioned I was hesitant to share any list due to my opinions being pretty much already said and straight up gut feelings. I'm gonna be a honest I was a bit frustrated when Gourd completely said I mimicked opinions after saying what I felt was already said and that seems to be the main thing Gourd has against me besides my weird messy post today, hence my "someone frustrated the fuck out of me" post, I've learned to not post when I'm too emotional from frustration. My frustration comes from I had already said my thoughts have been said and yet they focus on the scummiest part of me being I apparently mimicked people lol. It's hard to have completely different opinions and different things to say on D1 so mentioning this as scummy was a bit weird considering no one really had any reads on D1 and I wasn't the only one agreeing to things.

Gourd in my opinion seems distant with his posts and like he doesn't want to say much but that's not much to go on I guess, and that feeling could be wrong. It just feels like him and YM don't want to partake much as if they're being super careful, generally small posts and not many. At least Gourd has put in his entire word on the entire town though.

AGHHHHHHH that's it if you have any questions tell me T.T My brain is sore.

Anyway, just to get it out there. My gut-feeling says muffle's kay. I can't support a lynch. I understand LockeZ or other still going for their logical impression, but I would like them to consider the other side. I adore and admire their campaigning and bravery in going with their reading, and I feel I should do more of that too, just yknow, with my own tools. (also, I have been thinking about it more calmy throughout the day, breaks are good. So it's a long-term feel more than a jumpy one this time, I believe. yer free to prove me wrong though)
Nothing's certain, sure, but my gut-feeling's better than over-analzying I think. It's kind of what made me look too deeply into slip-ups for IF and slip-ups he had, as it turned out. I would like to avoid repeating that mistake - especially when we have other leads to go by. It was a slip-up that put muffle into spot-light, and a spotlight's fine and good since we got a really big follow-up, but it is likely a genuine slip-up. It was careless for town (certain things need to be kept to yourself to ensure safety), but not directly scummy. Thinking about it, scum, except Oberon, would not need to drop such hints here, they have scum chat for that, last I heard. That leaves the possibility of Oberon, ofc, but I am not feeling that. And if muffle was Oberon, she'd be lower on our priority list, even if she remained suspicious to some (no nk before the others are gone and no knowledge to jump onto misguided lynch-trains, though reading enables those too).

I would like to point out that piano's stance has been very helpful, but he's become increasingly quiet - could be work, sure, or sth else, and they have been more observant. They did jump on IF but that was due to a questionable play and quickly rallied troops. Also, whereas psy has become more active and involved and put forth things readily and quickly on D2, piano's been a lot quieter there. I hope he can come out and post some more.
It's the same kind of caution that gourdy has, and so he's contributing and giving different perspectives and that's good, but my bad feeling's not gone away, and it's never gotten into too much detail.

Odd's slowly coming back after being busy, so that's good.

I still can't say anything reliable about YM. I don't know how they are up-close, so that makes it harder for me to know whether that's something he does or not. Either way, I am looking forward to more postings. It'd be a bummer to have non-active peeps stick around, but I am hopeful since they chimed in earlier to do so.

I have my eyes on gourd for now, btw. Just feel wise, worst vibes I get for never wanting to commit despite being there? I find his posts the hardest to remember too. Tho he did vote for IF, and IF had good vibes from him, so that makes me wanna sleep over it.
I can't explain it well, but no harm in putting out there, actually. See you tomorrow!

She's right about piano growing more quiet D2, though that might just mean he's busy considering we all have different schedules. Just in case that's not something I'm ignoring though.

Also I don't know what you mean by appeal of emotions, and I think Ky is just going by gut feeling like I have for the most part.

Will be gone for a bit.

Also, oh, just as additional tidbit before I really go (this keeps pulling me in doesnt it), I wanted and want muffle to know it's cool to be an emotional reading peep (I am one too), and that it's ok to fuck up sometimes. I know she's really sweet and might worry about it for reals (I have going into this game, sooo.. I can imagine that being a possibility), and I know we have some really strong rational advocates playing. This may not be the best place for it, but it's something I like to convey beyond the game setup. That prolly contributed to your reading. Which is cool. But I hope that adds to why I wrote it the way I did. I do hope people consider it as a different set of reading. You can judge a dishes' restaurant-worthiness by its taste or look alone, but both can be valid reasons and criteria.

(it is true I didn't let IF come back after getting weird vibes and I do regret doing that, and I am curious to how I will feel about this all tomorrow)

Alright...so teams are set now. I was hoping we could hold off in case we decided to lynch one of the members later. I generally think it's a good idea to look at potential lynch targets first if were going to put suspicious people in a team, because I don't want to look at comments later on, decide to say lynch ym, but then not want to do that because shes already in a team. I didn't accept earlier yet for that reason, but what's done is done.

Psy: I'm feeling PA is more townie than scum. Assassin would definitely want to stay under the radar until later game, same with a mordred, so that the very least if he does turn out to be scum, he's probably not a power role. As for my opinion of you, I don't think you are scum unless there is no mordred. The way you came off to me is that you want to ignore all scum except for mordred, and that means leaving the assassin till late game when there are few targets for them to choose from. There probably is a mordred given how many of us think so, but I feel like we shouldn't completely ignore that possibility either. It's not a stretch to say that scum could actually want us to think that there is a mordred.

Muffle is an emotional player so looking at the defensive post alone, that looks like standard muffle to me. Instead, something else that muffle said bugs me a bit. Specifically, day 1 she had a neutral-slight scum read on IF, but later says she read him as town after his comments. The thing is, the comments she read him as town on are the same ones he was being all weird in and caused me to lynch him. I'm willing to vote muffle today for this reason.

I was also suspicious of gourd day 1 because of one of his comments, but I have no real evidence to go after him yet. Other than that one comment that bugged me hes seemed mostly fine.

I can't say much about YM or odd since they have been pretty quiet. YM is definitely lynchable to me just because I feel no substance from her posts, but since shes locked on a team now I'd rather wait for a different day phase.

Lockez: Probably town because of how helpful hes been.

Piano: Muffle did make a good point about piano. Piano has felt mostly town to me thus far, but if muffle flips town I'm willing to reevaluate that thought.

That covers most of my thoughts for right now.

author=Muffle
She's right about piano growing more quiet D2, though that might just mean he's busy considering we all have different schedules. Just in case that's not something I'm ignoring though.

Also I don't know what you mean by appeal of emotions, and I think Ky is just going by gut feeling like I have for the most part.

Will be gone for a bit.

I think cap means that your long, panicky-looking post in which you "coinicidentally" throwing shade at anyone who has said anything negative about you is, uh, emotional.

I don't even think it's inherently bad to be emotional, but it's pretty clear you're just lashing out at everyone who has suspected you while simultaneously saying I'm not really enaging which is a big ??? if I'm warranting this much of a reaction from you.

author=demon
Alright...so teams are set now. I was hoping we could hold off in case we decided to lynch one of the members later. I generally think it's a good idea to look at potential lynch targets first if were going to put suspicious people in a team, because I don't want to look at comments later on, decide to say lynch ym, but then not want to do that because shes already in a team. I didn't accept earlier yet for that reason, but what's done is done.

Got to into mission sending I didn't think of this. Oops.

@ky Any hesitance you feel on my part is likely that I don't have really strong scumreads other than muffle -that one has been steadily getting stronger, and YM for his absence!

Also, I don't know that "posts are forgettable" is much of a reason to put out there especially when you can go back and read them.