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halibabica
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CloseThis is tough for me to put into words.
I'm not saying women are frail/ignorant/innocent/whatever. I acknowledge the opposite gender's intellectual worth, and I would expect no less from a women than a man. I don't believe there's any inferiority or superiority in humans based solely on gender, or race, or religion, or anything.
When I say I have too much respect for women, I mean I respect them as people who are not objects for anyone to use. If two people are willing to use each other for pleasure and nothing more, then I have no problem with it. That's their decision to make.
I, personally, don't see the value in it (and this is surely my inexperience talking again). I can't bring myself to see someone else as anything less than a human being, and it's this awareness of their person that makes this such an awkward subject for me. How could you take someone at face value like that? They have lives outside of your present desires and the heat of the moment. They have personality, feelings, motives, and everything else that makes each person so unique from the rest. It's these notions that stop me from pursuing women for nothing more than getting laid. I can't consent myself to someone like that, and I don't think they should put themselves on that level, either (more pompousness...I can't think of a better way to put it).
I'm not trying to imply that sex is a bad thing. On the contrary, I'm sure it's quite enjoyable! But, as I've said before, there's so much going on with any one person that I don't see why they would ever want to hide it all away and essentially say "I'm nothing but a body, and I want to feel good."
I'm not saying women are frail/ignorant/innocent/whatever. I acknowledge the opposite gender's intellectual worth, and I would expect no less from a women than a man. I don't believe there's any inferiority or superiority in humans based solely on gender, or race, or religion, or anything.
When I say I have too much respect for women, I mean I respect them as people who are not objects for anyone to use. If two people are willing to use each other for pleasure and nothing more, then I have no problem with it. That's their decision to make.
I, personally, don't see the value in it (and this is surely my inexperience talking again). I can't bring myself to see someone else as anything less than a human being, and it's this awareness of their person that makes this such an awkward subject for me. How could you take someone at face value like that? They have lives outside of your present desires and the heat of the moment. They have personality, feelings, motives, and everything else that makes each person so unique from the rest. It's these notions that stop me from pursuing women for nothing more than getting laid. I can't consent myself to someone like that, and I don't think they should put themselves on that level, either (more pompousness...I can't think of a better way to put it).
I'm not trying to imply that sex is a bad thing. On the contrary, I'm sure it's quite enjoyable! But, as I've said before, there's so much going on with any one person that I don't see why they would ever want to hide it all away and essentially say "I'm nothing but a body, and I want to feel good."
Asalieri
200
author=halibabica link=topic=2473.msg45445#msg45445 date=1227052372
When I say I have too much respect for women, I mean I respect them as people who are not objects for anyone to use. If two people are willing to use each other for pleasure and nothing more, then I have no problem with it. That's their decision to make.
What you said here is now offensive to BOTH sexes. Apparently, if you're having sex, you're just using the other person now? Holy shit, man.
author=halibabica link=topic=2473.msg45445#msg45445 date=1227052372
I, personally, don't see the value in it (and this is surely my inexperience talking again). I can't bring myself to see someone else as anything less than a human being, and it's this awareness of their person that makes this such an awkward subject for me.
So if you approach someone because you like them and want to get to know them and maybe later down the road become romantically involved with them, you're now somehow
DEMEANING that person?
author=halibabica link=topic=2473.msg45445#msg45445 date=1227052372
How could you take someone at face value like that? They have lives outside of your present desires and the heat of the moment. They have personality, feelings, motives, and everything else that makes each person so unique from the rest.
Right, and they'll still have those things that make them unique regardless of whether you ask them out for a miserable cup of coffee or even just TALK to them!
You aren't dehumanizing someone by LIKING them, for crissakes!
I'm starting to think there's more to this than meets the eye. Sounds to me
like you overthink the courting process, and/or you're a tad insecure about how
to approach it, so you'd rather ignore it altogether.
author=halibabica link=topic=2473.msg45445#msg45445 date=1227052372
It's these notions that stop me from pursuing women for nothing more than getting laid. I can't consent myself to someone like that, and I don't think they should put themselves on that level, either (more pompousness...I can't think of a better way to put it).
Trust me, asking someone out or even admiring them from afar isn't going to lower them in anyway.
author=halibabica link=topic=2473.msg45445#msg45445 date=1227052372
I'm not trying to imply that sex is a bad thing. On the contrary, I'm sure it's quite enjoyable! But, as I've said before, there's so much going on with any one person that I don't see why they would ever want to hide it all away and essentially say "I'm nothing but a body, and I want to feel good."
They aren't. In fact, if they've made up their minds to give themselves to you, that is the biggest honor one can have, and as such you'd be rude to decline on grounds that it's somehow beneath you!
It's a lonely world without companionship of some sort. Why on earth would you strive to make it any lonelier for yourself?
Wow, took most of what I said out of context!
I'm not referring to people who are looking for serious relationships. I'm talking about people who go out and look for other people just for the sake of having sex. There's nothing wrong with people being interested in each other and forming a relationship! I just feel it should be grounded on more than physical attraction alone!
Not always! It depends on the situation.
That depends on your intentions. If you're after a girl because you think she's hot and want to bang her, then yes! If you're genuinely interested in them and want to get to know them better, then no!
Again, it all depends on context and intentions.
That would be in the interest of forming the kind of relationship I think would be worthwhile.
I was, again, referring to people who weren't looking for anything serious. If a girl fell so in love with me for who I am that they'd be willing to give themselves up to me, then I would be more inclined. But, I haven't met anyone like that, and I'll admit that I haven't been looking very hard, either. But, do you at least get where I'm coming from now? Do you get the distinction between people interested in each other and people only interested in having sex?
Oh, also...
I'm not referring to people who are looking for serious relationships. I'm talking about people who go out and look for other people just for the sake of having sex. There's nothing wrong with people being interested in each other and forming a relationship! I just feel it should be grounded on more than physical attraction alone!
author=Asalieri link=topic=2473.msg45450#msg45450 date=1227053196
What you said here is now offensive to BOTH sexes. Apparently, if you're having sex, you're just using the other person now? Holy shit, man.
Not always! It depends on the situation.
author=Asalieri link=topic=2473.msg45450#msg45450 date=1227053196
So if you approach someone because you like them and want to get to know them and maybe later down the road become romantically involved with them, you're now somehow DEMEANING that person?
That depends on your intentions. If you're after a girl because you think she's hot and want to bang her, then yes! If you're genuinely interested in them and want to get to know them better, then no!
author=Asalieri link=topic=2473.msg45450#msg45450 date=1227053196
Right, and they'll still have those things that make them unique regardless of whether you ask them out for a miserable cup of coffee or even just TALK to them!
You aren't dehumanizing someone by LIKING them, for crissakes!
Again, it all depends on context and intentions.
author=Asalieri link=topic=2473.msg45450#msg45450 date=1227053196
Trust me, asking someone out or even admiring them from afar isn't going to lower them in anyway.
That would be in the interest of forming the kind of relationship I think would be worthwhile.
author=Asalieri link=topic=2473.msg45450#msg45450 date=1227053196
They aren't. In fact, if they've made up their minds to give themselves to you, that is the biggest honor one can have, and as such you'd be rude to decline on grounds that it's somehow beneath you!
I was, again, referring to people who weren't looking for anything serious. If a girl fell so in love with me for who I am that they'd be willing to give themselves up to me, then I would be more inclined. But, I haven't met anyone like that, and I'll admit that I haven't been looking very hard, either. But, do you at least get where I'm coming from now? Do you get the distinction between people interested in each other and people only interested in having sex?
Oh, also...
author=Asalieri link=topic=2473.msg45450#msg45450 date=1227053196This may very well be the case.
I'm starting to think there's more to this than meets the eye. Sounds to me
like you overthink the courting process, and/or you're a tad insecure about how
to approach it, so you'd rather ignore it altogether.
Asalieri
200
See, I was never approaching it from the angle of "you should look for someone to bang just to see what it feels like". You must've assumed that I was encouraging you to have a one-night stand, and that wasn't the case.
Also, you have to be somewhat motivated to want to learn more about someone. Their exterior is what drives you to want to ask about their interior.
If you don't ask people you like out, you'll never know if you really do click with them or not. Finding "the one" is almost always and more often than not a process of
trial and error until you finally meet the person that works well with you.
That's pretty much the bottom line, my friend! It's a self-driven and lonely world otherwise.
Also, you have to be somewhat motivated to want to learn more about someone. Their exterior is what drives you to want to ask about their interior.
If you don't ask people you like out, you'll never know if you really do click with them or not. Finding "the one" is almost always and more often than not a process of
trial and error until you finally meet the person that works well with you.
That's pretty much the bottom line, my friend! It's a self-driven and lonely world otherwise.
Arias
0
Off-Topic:
Are you telling me it's not a self-driven world otherwise?
On topic:
Some of the people that posted here sounded as if they did promote One-night Stands.
Are you telling me it's not a self-driven world otherwise?
On topic:
Some of the people that posted here sounded as if they did promote One-night Stands.
Asalieri
200
For the off topic question:
No, it isn't. You might understand what I mean once you have a family to care for.
For the on-topic statement:
No, we just promote sex as being a good thing, as opposed to something overrated and barbaric that only serves to demean people.
No, it isn't. You might understand what I mean once you have a family to care for.
For the on-topic statement:
No, we just promote sex as being a good thing, as opposed to something overrated and barbaric that only serves to demean people.
I have to admit, after watching this topic a bit, I'm rather interesting in hearing Feld's backstory. Any interesting tales for us, framling?
author=Asalieri link=topic=2473.msg45469#msg45469 date=1227056062Now, I get it. Glad we could clear up that misunderstanding. Most of what I was saying was directed at the comments I thought were in support of things like on-night stands. As for finding the one for me, well...when I find a girl I think might work out, I'll give it a go. But, so far, none have turned up. I don't know what it feels like to fall in love, so maybe that's why I haven't had any serious relationships with anyone yet.
See, I was never approaching it from the angle of "you should look for someone to bang just to see what it feels like". You must've assumed that I was encouraging you to have a one-night stand, and that wasn't the case.
Also, you have to be somewhat motivated to want to learn more about someone. Their exterior is what drives you to want to ask about their interior.
If you don't ask people you like out, you'll never know if you really do click with them or not. Finding "the one" is almost always and more often than not a process of
trial and error until you finally meet the person that works well with you.
That's pretty much the bottom line, my friend! It's a self-driven and lonely world otherwise.
can't bring myself to see someone else as anything less than a human being, and it's this awareness of their person that makes this such an awkward subject for me.
Less than a human being? What??? Uh hello, last time I checked, human beings have sex. You know the fact that you exist? That's evidence of that fact. So how does sex require seeing anyone as anything other than a human being?
author=myself link=topic=2473.msg45465#msg45465 date=1227054606I was referring to one-night stands and such. There's nothing dehumanizing about normal relationships.
Do you get the distinction between people interested in each other and people only interested in having sex?
Natook
1000
I'm a virgin and I guarantee that sex is freaking amazing, but I'm not going to unless I'm married. I know, sounds crazy to all you sex driven people (jk) but I think sex is too important to be shared with people you're not going to be spending the rest of your life with.
I still don't understand the whole friend zone thing. No, really. Asa sat down with me and tried to explain it, but I think he gave up. It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. And he's the guy who usually makes everything make sense for me.
Here's the best explanation you're going to get; Have you ever liked a guy as a friend but weren't attracted to them? That's the friend zone.
VerifyedRasta
581
author=Natook link=topic=2473.msg45581#msg45581 date=1227067067
I'm a virgin and I guarantee that sex is freaking amazing, but I'm not going to unless I'm married. I know, sounds crazy to all you sex driven people (jk) but I think sex is too important to be shared with people you're not going to be spending the rest of your life with.
I agree with Natook completely!
There were times when i literally escaped away from sluts that wanted to "Fuck" me ... the sluts always want the good boys, you know ...
Anyhow, they all wanna "Show me the ropes" and all that jazz, but fck that, as Natook said Sex IS a very important thing and should be shared with the person you want to spend your life with.
Although I'm saying this, I know when i move to the states, I won't be able to run any longer ... it will soon catch me and the temptations will be too great. It's easy to run here, but this place is a spec compared to the states
suzuricho
283
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2473.msg45606#msg45606 date=1227070673I still don't understand the whole friend zone thing. No, really. Asa sat down with me and tried to explain it, but I think he gave up. It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. And he's the guy who usually makes everything make sense for me.
Here's the best explanation you're going to get; Have you ever liked a guy as a friend but weren't attracted to them? That's the friend zone.
Aha! I guess then I have crossed that line before... *thinks* I guess even though that guy is taken by someone else, it still counts? Most of the guys I knew that I was friends with either already had a girlfriend or they were my own family. While my cousin had a slight crush on me because of a misunderstanding (I was horrible at talking during my youth) he certainly didn't count. xD
As far as my friends in high school, the only guys I considered like that, we were mutual - we dated before and we knew that we couldn't have that kind of relationship. But we talked it out numerous times, as our friends thought it would be great if we dated. He is still a close friend.
I once was that creepy girl that stalked a guy I really liked. *blush* God was he cute. The only problem was, he was a preacher's son, and... I read tarot cards at lunch for my friends... he once called me a demon worshipper to my face, and I just gave up. I didn't even cry over that. But I never had another one of those kind of crushes again. I learned from it. Stalking people = waste of time.
As far as the sex issue goes...
I was made fun of in high school by my friends for being the only virgin in my group by senior year. I didn't really date then, and I was scared of sex. Yes, I had a fear of sexual encounters. I can understand that mindset. "Does it hurt?", "it makes babies? Oh no!", I had no clue what to think - and no close adult I trusted to ask about it, and my friends were too busy trying to tell everyone how great their experiences were. I was indeed curious, but I wasn't going to randomly bump uglies just to find out what the whole hubbub was about.
I was 19 when I finally jumped on my boyfriend randomly when he came over to visit. We were both virgins and it hurt. We had no idea what to do! I was on BC, so no babies. After a few times of hurting, it gradually got better until I called him every night to ask him when he was coming over next. Then after our breakup, I didn't want it anymore. *shrug*
Then along comes *points at dancing Tellah avatar* over a year later. The rest is history!
I realized that I didn't want sex unless I was in a relationship first, but I still had the drive. I mean, I have a one year old and I'm carrying another baby. I have the urges, I have wet dreams as much as any guy does, and I had to accept that as just being a human being. I was very ashamed of it. But what's to be ashamed of?
author=Natook
I'm a virgin and I guarantee that sex is freaking amazing, but I'm not going to unless I'm married. I know, sounds crazy to all you sex driven people (jk) but I think sex is too important to be shared with people you're not going to be spending the rest of your life with.
I used to believe in that. I thought I was going to marry said guy I mentioned above. I was off by one relationship. If I would have known that the previous relationship would have ended like that, then I wouldn't have. Or I might have. I can't say, really.
@Max: I was just giving an example. I like CLAMP, okay? I'm not afraid to admit it. I like overly cute things, dammit! That's why my name is Suzuricho, because of the fact that it's the cutest thing I've ever seen. *has a hidden girly side* But my favorite is still Rurouni Kenshin. It would have been more than a pleasure to meet someone remotely interested in me that started up a conversation about Kenshin way back then. <3 Seriously, my heart would have skipped two beats if someone said "wasn't it a tearjerker when Kenshin had to leave Kaoru?"
...or if I met a guy as interested in Tales games as I was/am.
Yeah first couple times are really awkward. I was 16 at the time. Girls are still like some sort of mythical fairy tale to boys that young.
Clest
0
Suzu: experiences are always for good so I think it was not bad that you had sex there, and what matters is that you and your husband are together now really. Now funny enough I too only had my first time when I thought my first girlfriend and myself would be together forever.
In fact, at first I just provoked her here and there but with no imediate intentions of sex, I wanted to feel more safe about us. However she got ideas on that and starte to bring the subject up, I said I wanted to wait more, but when we were together for about two months and her bday was comming she almost demanded that as a gift... By then I gave it some thought and went for it, we were doing wonderfully together. However since her mom was against that cause I was just a student and not from a rich family or anything, she gave up to the pressure and provoked me into breaking up by saying bad things including saying she didn´t like having sex with me... Now that was a damaging beat, I broke up with her soon after a bit frustrated cause no matter what cruel things I said back she wouldn´t cry (and I am truly vengeful when hurt).
Glagly about 8 months ago we meet again intially as friends and I provoked then more out of resentment yet (I am that vengeful) and she admited that for her we would have it again and that she only said those bad things out of her mother´s pressure. We later got back together, had good times but broke up again with no hatred this time :P
I still considere all that a pack of good experiences... we learned the basics together (so I knew more what to do to please someone later) and I think it was well worth it, same as all my other experiences too. With that I am confident that whenever I bump into a crazy enough girl to stay with me for really long without wanting to kill me, I will know how to please her nicely rather than frustrate her :)
Now on the subject of sex for just sex:
What the hell is WRONG with one night stands? I think there is nothing wrong with that as long as both ppl are honest and agree with it. I am quite more geared towards more romantic relationships, and to me they are far more fulfilling, yet by experience I say one night stands aren´t bad at all.
When my other relationship ended (not the last, which ended two weeks ago and for the best) I was really off with opening my heart for a deep relationship, but since the previous one was essentially an online one, my hormones were all burning and then a girl at Orkut hit on me in a community topic, I thought it was all fun so I hit her back joking and we went on msn, things got really personal with flirting... but I really didn´t want a relationship and I felt it wouldn´t go long with her, so I just went honest and said that I was not for a relationship but would still like to meet her to which she agreed promptly.
Weeks later we met, one night stand, the act in itself was really great and satisfying, and yet on the next day we acted as just friends, she told me of a guy she liked but was too indesive towards being with her or not and we laughed lots about silly jokes all day.
Surely it was not as fulfilling as a relationship, but it was nice, satisfying and as pure as honest as it could be, we both felt better with ourselves and really happy. Now she is with that boy who she liked in a serious relationship, I had an almost 2 years long relationship which ended two weeks ago, but am happy as I am, or happier than I was feeling latelly at least. I might share about my last relationship a bit just to let it out later, but not now I guess, gotta go for lunch :P
Anyway: experiences are never bad and while virginity is no laughing matter neither a curse, it is not a dimensional seal to heaven that ypou should protect with your life either.
Add: Rasta, where do you live that there are those sluts who get nice guys? Any redheads over 18? XD Sprry, I had to say that =^.^=
In fact, at first I just provoked her here and there but with no imediate intentions of sex, I wanted to feel more safe about us. However she got ideas on that and starte to bring the subject up, I said I wanted to wait more, but when we were together for about two months and her bday was comming she almost demanded that as a gift... By then I gave it some thought and went for it, we were doing wonderfully together. However since her mom was against that cause I was just a student and not from a rich family or anything, she gave up to the pressure and provoked me into breaking up by saying bad things including saying she didn´t like having sex with me... Now that was a damaging beat, I broke up with her soon after a bit frustrated cause no matter what cruel things I said back she wouldn´t cry (and I am truly vengeful when hurt).
Glagly about 8 months ago we meet again intially as friends and I provoked then more out of resentment yet (I am that vengeful) and she admited that for her we would have it again and that she only said those bad things out of her mother´s pressure. We later got back together, had good times but broke up again with no hatred this time :P
I still considere all that a pack of good experiences... we learned the basics together (so I knew more what to do to please someone later) and I think it was well worth it, same as all my other experiences too. With that I am confident that whenever I bump into a crazy enough girl to stay with me for really long without wanting to kill me, I will know how to please her nicely rather than frustrate her :)
Now on the subject of sex for just sex:
What the hell is WRONG with one night stands? I think there is nothing wrong with that as long as both ppl are honest and agree with it. I am quite more geared towards more romantic relationships, and to me they are far more fulfilling, yet by experience I say one night stands aren´t bad at all.
When my other relationship ended (not the last, which ended two weeks ago and for the best) I was really off with opening my heart for a deep relationship, but since the previous one was essentially an online one, my hormones were all burning and then a girl at Orkut hit on me in a community topic, I thought it was all fun so I hit her back joking and we went on msn, things got really personal with flirting... but I really didn´t want a relationship and I felt it wouldn´t go long with her, so I just went honest and said that I was not for a relationship but would still like to meet her to which she agreed promptly.
Weeks later we met, one night stand, the act in itself was really great and satisfying, and yet on the next day we acted as just friends, she told me of a guy she liked but was too indesive towards being with her or not and we laughed lots about silly jokes all day.
Surely it was not as fulfilling as a relationship, but it was nice, satisfying and as pure as honest as it could be, we both felt better with ourselves and really happy. Now she is with that boy who she liked in a serious relationship, I had an almost 2 years long relationship which ended two weeks ago, but am happy as I am, or happier than I was feeling latelly at least. I might share about my last relationship a bit just to let it out later, but not now I guess, gotta go for lunch :P
Anyway: experiences are never bad and while virginity is no laughing matter neither a curse, it is not a dimensional seal to heaven that ypou should protect with your life either.
Add: Rasta, where do you live that there are those sluts who get nice guys? Any redheads over 18? XD Sprry, I had to say that =^.^=
maladroithim
1495
I don't appreciate the hostile attitude that most of you hve towards people that aren't interested in sex.
I am not interested in sex and I do not enjoy it. I think it is a pain in the ass (gay sex is especially but that's only about half the time). Almost always when I have sex it is to show my partner that I care about her and while I am patient and take my time to make sure it is good for her, I am glad when it is over. It is comparable to giving a long and intimate massage - it isn't really that fun to do but it's something a person will put up with if they love someone.
Honestly, when she is too tired and would rather go to sleep, I feel relieved.
You guys are claiming only virgins feel this way. I am not a virgin. I have had sex hundreds of times; I have had sex with lovers, with girlfriends I was lukewarm about, casually with a friend, and once, with a complete stranger.
I am not a mutant. I've never been raped. I have no sexual trauma haunting me. I just don't enjoy sex! I am only in it for the emotional connection. Is it too hard for you guys to imagine a person like that?
I am not interested in sex and I do not enjoy it. I think it is a pain in the ass (gay sex is especially but that's only about half the time). Almost always when I have sex it is to show my partner that I care about her and while I am patient and take my time to make sure it is good for her, I am glad when it is over. It is comparable to giving a long and intimate massage - it isn't really that fun to do but it's something a person will put up with if they love someone.
Honestly, when she is too tired and would rather go to sleep, I feel relieved.
You guys are claiming only virgins feel this way. I am not a virgin. I have had sex hundreds of times; I have had sex with lovers, with girlfriends I was lukewarm about, casually with a friend, and once, with a complete stranger.
I am not a mutant. I've never been raped. I have no sexual trauma haunting me. I just don't enjoy sex! I am only in it for the emotional connection. Is it too hard for you guys to imagine a person like that?
VerifyedRasta
581
author=Clest link=topic=2473.msg45698#msg45698 date=1227103507
Add: Rasta, where do you live that there are those sluts who get nice guys? Any redheads over 18? XD Sprry, I had to say that =^.^=
Lol I live in the Cayman Islands and yes there are a LOT of sluts here, they are all attracted to nice guys and new guys like the tourists and stuff.
And yes there are many redheads in Cayman Brac (The Cayman Islands consists of 3 islands Grand Cayman, Cayman Brac and Little Cayman) which is just a 30 min flight from Grand Cayman :P
Clest
0
Not hard for me, I do believe that there are all kinds of people, and I have friends who feel the same way as you do (mostly girls though, but it is fairly possible, not as common, but possible, for guys to not be all up on sexual activity).
It is not a matter of mindset only, it has to do with hormones too.
Now my only point was that as much as sex can be wonderful in a relationship, it can also be good or at least not wrong (as I felt some were implying). Nothing is wrong as long as both ppl are honest to each other and both feel happy. Even those less... convetional fetishes are fine if those circunstances are met.
Btw, I laughed at the pain in the ass part :P
Edot: Rasta: Oh I see, we have many sluts here, but they are attrracted to money and cars, other than that you can be a badass drug dealer and/or almost dead old and they will hook up to you just easily :P
It is not a matter of mindset only, it has to do with hormones too.
Now my only point was that as much as sex can be wonderful in a relationship, it can also be good or at least not wrong (as I felt some were implying). Nothing is wrong as long as both ppl are honest to each other and both feel happy. Even those less... convetional fetishes are fine if those circunstances are met.
Btw, I laughed at the pain in the ass part :P
Edot: Rasta: Oh I see, we have many sluts here, but they are attrracted to money and cars, other than that you can be a badass drug dealer and/or almost dead old and they will hook up to you just easily :P
