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RPG MAKER MZ!
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Closethe already revealed a lot of the rtp. i will hold back my reservations on certain aspects I know more about, but in general I think the rtp is one of the strongest points of the engine.
author=kory_toombs
I just saw a slew of DLCs already being offered for the engine, so you can purchase the bundle when it comes out. It sort of concerns me because it almost seems like they cut content out of the engine and are selling it as extra. I'm not saying that for sure, but business practices with video games today seem to be pointing towards this trend. Beware before buying that you might be getting an incomplete product.
Enterbrain is the new EA?
I mean asset packs have been the emphasis for years now, and I believe MV launched with optional packs too. I don't know if you follow any of the RMW social media but they really, really push the asset packs so I'm guessing that's what the majority of their sales are from rather than the engines themselves.
it's certainly how i've spent the majority of my money on rm* stuff. it's the best thing they've done for rpg maker.
eduty
0
I think the default MZ RTP assets is the largest asset pack released with any RPG Maker product, to-date, even without the bundled DLC assets available at launch.
seacliff217
2734
General thoughts.
-Actually not too bothered that it's still similar to MV. One step forward is better two steps forward and one step back, with the exception of the transition from VX and VX Ace, it's a common trend between the engines to do that. I mean, XP to VX felt like a half step forward and two steps back. So I'm welcoming the concept of MV Ace with open arms.
-What is new is great. The particle effects animations is amazing is the best feature I never asked for. General QoL stuff like a visual representation of Move Routes is great, and while stuff 'Wait for Map Scroll' are stuff that should have been added years ago, it's better late than never.
-RTP is similar, but I don't emphasize with how people are so hung up over it. After I drop my second project I'll likely just be using custom assets, especially since everything designed for MV is compatible.
That said, it is mildly better than MV. I still miss the styles of 2k/3 and XP though.
-Most of what I'm concerned about isn't the engine itself, but some practices of the publisher and their relationship to the community. I'm keeping that vague though because I don't want to discuss that on this thread.
-Actually not too bothered that it's still similar to MV. One step forward is better two steps forward and one step back, with the exception of the transition from VX and VX Ace, it's a common trend between the engines to do that. I mean, XP to VX felt like a half step forward and two steps back. So I'm welcoming the concept of MV Ace with open arms.
-What is new is great. The particle effects animations is amazing is the best feature I never asked for. General QoL stuff like a visual representation of Move Routes is great, and while stuff 'Wait for Map Scroll' are stuff that should have been added years ago, it's better late than never.
-RTP is similar, but I don't emphasize with how people are so hung up over it. After I drop my second project I'll likely just be using custom assets, especially since everything designed for MV is compatible.
That said, it is mildly better than MV. I still miss the styles of 2k/3 and XP though.
-Most of what I'm concerned about isn't the engine itself, but some practices of the publisher and their relationship to the community. I'm keeping that vague though because I don't want to discuss that on this thread.
Everyone talks about it weeks before release.
No one cares about it after release.
The state of the current RPG Maker engines summarized perfectly.
So, I hear there's effectively some kind of Day 1 DLC that's a script-package that includes the kinds of functionality that Yanfly was producing for Ace and MV? I don't pretend to know everything about it, especially the price, but, I can kinda understand where they are coming from by selling it as Day 1 DLC. Considering what happened to Yanfly, and how he was treated when his code was stolen, it would probably make any coder more careful about releasing their stuff for free, and/or in public!
As for me, personally, I dunno about MZ. It's not like I don't have ideas to gammak with, but, my desire to gammak has dropped drastically since Theme Roulette 3, if not before. Also, the #1 reason I like Ace, and can help people with Ace is, is because I've done the stuff I help them with. To at least some degree. Will I be able to do the same with MZ? I just... don't know.
As for me, personally, I dunno about MZ. It's not like I don't have ideas to gammak with, but, my desire to gammak has dropped drastically since Theme Roulette 3, if not before. Also, the #1 reason I like Ace, and can help people with Ace is, is because I've done the stuff I help them with. To at least some degree. Will I be able to do the same with MZ? I just... don't know.
Fomar0153
16396
Do you mean the 57 plugins you get in your dlc folder? They're free, they come with MZ.
I really like MZ so far and am really enjoying using it.
I really like MZ so far and am really enjoying using it.
I think he means the Visustella Core pack. Which is also free.
I did write a steam review for it that basically summed up is "It's good if you don't mind that it isn't reinventing the egg, but if you've ever bought more than one RM engine you know they don't like reinvention so you shouldn't be expecting that anyway."
I did write a steam review for it that basically summed up is "It's good if you don't mind that it isn't reinventing the egg, but if you've ever bought more than one RM engine you know they don't like reinvention so you shouldn't be expecting that anyway."
Yeah, I was probably thinking about the Visustella Core pack. Kinda figured it would cost something, though!
seacliff217
2734
author=Marrend
Yeah, I was probably thinking about the Visustella Core pack. Kinda figured it would cost something, though!
I think they plan to release commercial plugins further down the line, but they stated beforehand the plugins at launch would be free.
^
yeah, the core pack (of about 10 plugins) is stupidly versatile and it looks like they'll end up building a library of paid plugins, but the free stuff is pretty amazing without anything else added on top.
yeah, the core pack (of about 10 plugins) is stupidly versatile and it looks like they'll end up building a library of paid plugins, but the free stuff is pretty amazing without anything else added on top.
Aegix_Drakan
6037
I'm glad to hear that it's pretty good.
I'm unlikely to upgrade for a while yet, since I feel I haven't gotten enough mileage/releases out of MV and I really REALLY love the 3D plugin for it...
But I'm super happy to hear that MZ is good and flexible even at launch. :)
I'm unlikely to upgrade for a while yet, since I feel I haven't gotten enough mileage/releases out of MV and I really REALLY love the 3D plugin for it...
But I'm super happy to hear that MZ is good and flexible even at launch. :)
seacliff217
2734
So general thoughts of the engine after a half-week.
-Is it good?
Yes.
-Is it better than MV?
Absolutely. Once I finish my current MV project, I see no reason to return to MV.
-Is it $60-$80 better than MV?
Ehhhhhhh...
I got the -20% discount for owning MV on Steam, lowering the price to $60-ish and for my needs I'd say it's just barely worth it. I don't blame people for waiting a year where it would likely be $50 or less during the Steam Summer Sale.
The return of XP Layers is the biggest draw for me. It's been one of the most requested features since it was removed in VX over a decade ago, and while it was a sin for it to be removed to begin with (and for so long), I'm glad it's back. Creating complex map designs and making significant edits to maps is now a smoother process.
It actually made me realize how... astonishingly tedious MV's mapping was. I'd say in hindsight it's the worst mapping system of any RPG Maker. Sure, it had more layers than VX Ace, but at least in Ace you can overwrite the tile and call it a day. In MV, you have to replace the tile with the ground layer tile under it, than replace it with the tile you want. Really bad UI, IMO, glad they fixed it.
MZ's ATB is a nice touch. Yes, you can plugin ATB in MV, but I never really found one I liked. I believe Yanfly's ATB plugin for MV didn't even have an active option. Regardless, having it integrated makes it easier to work with in the database, adding skill delay to skills allows an execution delay in combat, so it's easy to emulate Final Fantasy's IV-VI attack delay by adding a -5 delay to the attack command or something.
But that's the thing, anything outside of XP's manual layer control can be summed up as 'a nice touch'. You can preview move routes now, it's a nice touch but doesn't significantly change how I create move routes. Better performance is a nice touch. Effekseer support is a nice touch. Having weapons replace the attack command without a plugin is a nice touch.
That said, these 'nice touches' do add up. The only thing I think MZ has that is inferior the MV is the RTP, but if you own both you can easily just copy/paste everything over.
So given that out of the box MZ is already compatible with the majority of assets created for MV (even some of the plugins still work), even the the smaller community support of RM today is more than enough for MZ to easily surpass Vx Ace as the best RPG Maker.
However, until that happens and the price lowers, you could also chose to stick with Ace or MV for now.
There's easily closer to 15-20 Yanfly MV Plugins within the ten Visustella Plugins.
-Is it good?
Yes.
-Is it better than MV?
Absolutely. Once I finish my current MV project, I see no reason to return to MV.
-Is it $60-$80 better than MV?
Ehhhhhhh...
I got the -20% discount for owning MV on Steam, lowering the price to $60-ish and for my needs I'd say it's just barely worth it. I don't blame people for waiting a year where it would likely be $50 or less during the Steam Summer Sale.
The return of XP Layers is the biggest draw for me. It's been one of the most requested features since it was removed in VX over a decade ago, and while it was a sin for it to be removed to begin with (and for so long), I'm glad it's back. Creating complex map designs and making significant edits to maps is now a smoother process.
It actually made me realize how... astonishingly tedious MV's mapping was. I'd say in hindsight it's the worst mapping system of any RPG Maker. Sure, it had more layers than VX Ace, but at least in Ace you can overwrite the tile and call it a day. In MV, you have to replace the tile with the ground layer tile under it, than replace it with the tile you want. Really bad UI, IMO, glad they fixed it.
MZ's ATB is a nice touch. Yes, you can plugin ATB in MV, but I never really found one I liked. I believe Yanfly's ATB plugin for MV didn't even have an active option. Regardless, having it integrated makes it easier to work with in the database, adding skill delay to skills allows an execution delay in combat, so it's easy to emulate Final Fantasy's IV-VI attack delay by adding a -5 delay to the attack command or something.
But that's the thing, anything outside of XP's manual layer control can be summed up as 'a nice touch'. You can preview move routes now, it's a nice touch but doesn't significantly change how I create move routes. Better performance is a nice touch. Effekseer support is a nice touch. Having weapons replace the attack command without a plugin is a nice touch.
That said, these 'nice touches' do add up. The only thing I think MZ has that is inferior the MV is the RTP, but if you own both you can easily just copy/paste everything over.
So given that out of the box MZ is already compatible with the majority of assets created for MV (even some of the plugins still work), even the the smaller community support of RM today is more than enough for MZ to easily surpass Vx Ace as the best RPG Maker.
However, until that happens and the price lowers, you could also chose to stick with Ace or MV for now.
author=LibertyYeah, the Battle Core Plugin alone contains the features of four or five Yanfly plugins. Skills&Buff Core too.
^
yeah, the core pack (of about 10 plugins) is stupidly versatile and it looks like they'll end up building a library of paid plugins, but the free stuff is pretty amazing without anything else added on top.
There's easily closer to 15-20 Yanfly MV Plugins within the ten Visustella Plugins.
I haven't been playing with it 24/7 since launch day, but I've been casually using it throughout the week and my biggest takeaway is that MZ feels much more "complete" than MV ever did. It's cleaner, feel crisper and the backend potential feels so much approachable especially with the powerful VisuStella plugins that came out at launch. It's a really fun engine to mess around with. And most of the "MV jank" problems with the editor have been resolved, though it still has a bit of it here and there.
There's a lot of great QOL improvements, such as the Preview Move Route function and the ability to playtest specific events at specific points within the event, rather than having to play the entire thing out manually. This is GODSEND for cutscene-heavy games. Also, being able to mix frontview/sideview with turn-based/ATB also gives an awesome level of flexibility.
Maybe the one big downside is that file sizes are still an issue, which I thought wasn't the case at first because of how small the project file is on-disk, but then it throws 180MB worth of dll files into the project folder when you export to Windows. The tradeoff is that the HTML export is not only MUCH better than MV, but the files for that are also considerably smaller and I had no problems throwing an in-browser game onto itch.io. I can see that being a popular export option.
Overall though, it's been a very fun engine to play around with. I'd love to make some small things in it here and there.
There's a lot of great QOL improvements, such as the Preview Move Route function and the ability to playtest specific events at specific points within the event, rather than having to play the entire thing out manually. This is GODSEND for cutscene-heavy games. Also, being able to mix frontview/sideview with turn-based/ATB also gives an awesome level of flexibility.
Maybe the one big downside is that file sizes are still an issue, which I thought wasn't the case at first because of how small the project file is on-disk, but then it throws 180MB worth of dll files into the project folder when you export to Windows. The tradeoff is that the HTML export is not only MUCH better than MV, but the files for that are also considerably smaller and I had no problems throwing an in-browser game onto itch.io. I can see that being a popular export option.
Overall though, it's been a very fun engine to play around with. I'd love to make some small things in it here and there.
boos405
636
I can't quite put my finger on it but MZ makes me not want to go back to MV again. Although MV is still a very good engine to use for those who want to stick to MV (I.e. Waiting for a higher MZ Sale or just prefer MV for other reasons) no doubt.
My reason might be everything mentioned here already. I do know the performance to use the engine feels a LOT faster than MV for me, that alone might be my reason.
The event list is super helpful for me, since I have a lot of treasure rewards events in what I've worked on lately and it keeps track of everything. I can label them as stuff like "40G", "200G", etc to know exactly how much each chest is with ease too. I find that helps me when deciding to increase or lower the amounts. It also helps in-case I need to balance it again later.
And I just like knowing which NPC is where easier for town maps to help keep track of things and again much easier to find if I want to go back to any of them. For me it's easier to fix things or add content to them that way.
Move route is just what I really need to to feel more confident in having characters move almost everywhere in cutscenes.
Plus other stuff all mentioned.
Visustella Core pack is a wonderful addition that makes so many huge improvement changes and allows a really nice UI system. I do like MZ default UI system actually since it is more optimized for mobile, but Visustella Core pack is just really great for that. The changes from their plugins just cleans and tidies up what is messes and makes it much better.
My reason might be everything mentioned here already. I do know the performance to use the engine feels a LOT faster than MV for me, that alone might be my reason.
The event list is super helpful for me, since I have a lot of treasure rewards events in what I've worked on lately and it keeps track of everything. I can label them as stuff like "40G", "200G", etc to know exactly how much each chest is with ease too. I find that helps me when deciding to increase or lower the amounts. It also helps in-case I need to balance it again later.
And I just like knowing which NPC is where easier for town maps to help keep track of things and again much easier to find if I want to go back to any of them. For me it's easier to fix things or add content to them that way.
Move route is just what I really need to to feel more confident in having characters move almost everywhere in cutscenes.
Plus other stuff all mentioned.
Visustella Core pack is a wonderful addition that makes so many huge improvement changes and allows a really nice UI system. I do like MZ default UI system actually since it is more optimized for mobile, but Visustella Core pack is just really great for that. The changes from their plugins just cleans and tidies up what is messes and makes it much better.
you guyz are making me want this engine, even though I can't really justify spending the $92 on yet another engine I won't get around to using.
Good thing that there's a trial version to check out and that we're having an event in a week or so based around MZ... ;p
