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HAVE YOU EVER LOST HOPE IN YOUR PROJECT
Posts
Jparker1984
2008
Jparker1984
View playlists
CloseI was just curious to what all of you guys think. Have you ever spent a lot of time with something in your game. Like the story, a fancy feature or a cool menu. Anything at all really. You had it in your head that you did really well, you were extremely happy with the results then BAM. Someone plays your game and tells you that all your so called HARD work, was actually boring/bad. If that has happened to you (happened to me before) how do you react? Do you give up, or do you strive to re-create what was less then appealing?
Yeaster
6164
You don't ever want to give up. You just evaluate what you've done and try to make corrections. It does damages the soul :'(, but in the end, it makes you better.
Jparker1984
2008
I was looking at an old project of mine hosted on this site. I saw a review of it and it was how can I say....really really bad. I got just a few plus points for some neat features, but other then that wow, I was really shocked.
demondestiny
889
this should be in game discussion.
Anyway, yeah i've had this happen loads of time. I always like it when other members give me useful feedback so i can try and make my projects better. So yeah, i strive to make my projects better and i will never give up.
Anyway, yeah i've had this happen loads of time. I always like it when other members give me useful feedback so i can try and make my projects better. So yeah, i strive to make my projects better and i will never give up.
Jparker1984
2008
sorry about the wrong area that i posted this in. But you know what gets me, when people cut up on what you have done. Then you look at their stuff and it's not much better.
demondestiny
889
author=Jparker1984 link=topic=2910.msg56535#msg56535 date=1232160287
sorry about the wrong area that i posted this in. But you know what gets me, when people cut up on what you have done. Then you look at their stuff and it's not much better.
Well it's all a part of being a good game designer. You will always have people that critisize your work.
Craze doesn't lose hope, he simply realizes that whatever he's working on was only fun for a few days and that it is time to move on.
Not really, I let others play it and some of them laugh at my horrendously bad mapping :o
Use the criticism to move on and do better >w<
Use the criticism to move on and do better >w<
Jparker1984
2008
yeah, you all made some very nice points. I have started up a new project since and i do feel its doing better...thanks
Yup. Catastrophe and Oceanus died that way.
Of course, that's because both of them started as tests to see how well I could work XP and VX respectively, grew to something bigger, and drowned violently in their own ambition. Just make sure you have a general idea of what your game will be before you start working on it.
Of course, that's because both of them started as tests to see how well I could work XP and VX respectively, grew to something bigger, and drowned violently in their own ambition. Just make sure you have a general idea of what your game will be before you start working on it.
It's a valid criticism. If every person that played the game thought it was boring, then it is a good thing to learn from. Better to learn that from an amateur game than sinking in thousands of dollars and then learning that.
Here's a pretty well known quote I think: "Your first 10 games will suck. Get them over with". Now it's not meant to say that no ones first games would ever be good. But they are learning experiences. If it sucks, why does it suck? What can I do in the next game to improve? What am I weak in? What am I strong in? I think it's not really too helpful if everyone says "it's good". It's motivational, sure, but it doesn't help you iron out the problems the game would have. Someone only saying "It's a horrible game" doesn't really help too much if they don't say why.
That's what I think I like about game making the most: You learn new things, and can experiment with what you've learned. "Ah, this check point system I put in really annoyed everyone". So what do you do for the next game? See what works and what doesn't about it. Maybe the check points were too far away, and all you needed to do was add more frequent and closer check points. Maybe the idea fails totally and you replace it with a different saving system. This is a problem for many people, and I'm talking from experience here: It's not always easy to look at your game objectively. You know how it works. Others who play it may not realize that you have to use the Orange key on the green door, yet you do it without thinking, then they get frustrated on that part. So any advice and feedback you get from others can be really helpful.
What I like to do is work on the systems and stuff first, after planning. If I find the idea isn't entertaining, or wouldn't really be entertaining for a long game, then I ditch it. This is why I tend to avoid advert topics: I cannot always say if the project would end up good or not, a lot of things sound good on paper but don't in function. I've scrapped a ton of projects, but if I'm going to stick with it, then I start showing people for feedback and how I could improve it.
Here's a pretty well known quote I think: "Your first 10 games will suck. Get them over with". Now it's not meant to say that no ones first games would ever be good. But they are learning experiences. If it sucks, why does it suck? What can I do in the next game to improve? What am I weak in? What am I strong in? I think it's not really too helpful if everyone says "it's good". It's motivational, sure, but it doesn't help you iron out the problems the game would have. Someone only saying "It's a horrible game" doesn't really help too much if they don't say why.
That's what I think I like about game making the most: You learn new things, and can experiment with what you've learned. "Ah, this check point system I put in really annoyed everyone". So what do you do for the next game? See what works and what doesn't about it. Maybe the check points were too far away, and all you needed to do was add more frequent and closer check points. Maybe the idea fails totally and you replace it with a different saving system. This is a problem for many people, and I'm talking from experience here: It's not always easy to look at your game objectively. You know how it works. Others who play it may not realize that you have to use the Orange key on the green door, yet you do it without thinking, then they get frustrated on that part. So any advice and feedback you get from others can be really helpful.
What I like to do is work on the systems and stuff first, after planning. If I find the idea isn't entertaining, or wouldn't really be entertaining for a long game, then I ditch it. This is why I tend to avoid advert topics: I cannot always say if the project would end up good or not, a lot of things sound good on paper but don't in function. I've scrapped a ton of projects, but if I'm going to stick with it, then I start showing people for feedback and how I could improve it.
Jparker1984
2008
I really like all the advice you all give out. I have been working with RPG Maker (the entire series) since 2000. Never have i met nice yet critique people like the ones here and on GW (yeah, lots of them on GW are also on here.) It's nice to see that this is more or less a family for lake of better terms. I just wish I would have been more active on here in months past.
You know, they always tell you in any medium to use peoples' criticism for the better and be positive about it.
But "They" always forget how much it sucks and how hard it hurts when someone truly busts your shit.
I'm going to be honest - I don't stick my head out. When I write a screenplay, I write shitty Stephen Segal straight-to-video crap that I don't give shit one about, because for me, if I get a harsh critique about it, I can laugh and say "heh, you're absolutely right - THIS IS CRAP!" However, this stuff tends to be my best received because I treat that work more like commissions/jobs and make sure they're technically sound.
However, I have never once finished a project of my heart, something I truly cared for, because more often than not, I sabotage myself. I think "this isn't the way this was meant to be told - it isn't perfect, and I'm not ready to tell this story yet." Sometimes I'll make the mistake of showing it to people. More than half the time, the people around me will be IMMENSELY supportive. But there's always that one douchebag who doesn't know the difference between constructive critique and assholery.
And as for people being assholes, yes, lots and lots of people you meet IRL or on the internet will be cruel. But to quote Peggy from Mad Men, "You think you're being helpful." They do! The great majority of people out there have NO IDEA how to give constructive criticism. That's why we devoted a full half a semester to it in my conservatory. Many (most) people will cross the line between being helpful and being hurtful.
That doesn't mean you should not take what they say into account. In fact, do what everyone says you should do - it is healthy and mature to take the critiques and leave the jerkitude behind, taking everything people say into account but not taking the harsh phrasing of it to heart... but also, don't feel ashamed if you feel like giving up. It happens to the best of us.
Good luck!
But "They" always forget how much it sucks and how hard it hurts when someone truly busts your shit.
I'm going to be honest - I don't stick my head out. When I write a screenplay, I write shitty Stephen Segal straight-to-video crap that I don't give shit one about, because for me, if I get a harsh critique about it, I can laugh and say "heh, you're absolutely right - THIS IS CRAP!" However, this stuff tends to be my best received because I treat that work more like commissions/jobs and make sure they're technically sound.
However, I have never once finished a project of my heart, something I truly cared for, because more often than not, I sabotage myself. I think "this isn't the way this was meant to be told - it isn't perfect, and I'm not ready to tell this story yet." Sometimes I'll make the mistake of showing it to people. More than half the time, the people around me will be IMMENSELY supportive. But there's always that one douchebag who doesn't know the difference between constructive critique and assholery.
And as for people being assholes, yes, lots and lots of people you meet IRL or on the internet will be cruel. But to quote Peggy from Mad Men, "You think you're being helpful." They do! The great majority of people out there have NO IDEA how to give constructive criticism. That's why we devoted a full half a semester to it in my conservatory. Many (most) people will cross the line between being helpful and being hurtful.
That doesn't mean you should not take what they say into account. In fact, do what everyone says you should do - it is healthy and mature to take the critiques and leave the jerkitude behind, taking everything people say into account but not taking the harsh phrasing of it to heart... but also, don't feel ashamed if you feel like giving up. It happens to the best of us.
Good luck!
Yoshio
774
I'll never truly know to the answer this question until I get my demo out and people start playing it
I'm confident but you never know exactly how somthing will be recieved
whatever happens though I'll stick with the project and see it through to the end
I have tough skin, and at the very least I know that I really like it
I'm confident but you never know exactly how somthing will be recieved
whatever happens though I'll stick with the project and see it through to the end
I have tough skin, and at the very least I know that I really like it
This happens to me ALL THE TIME.
I've come a long way with my stuff, but I was always in this state of uncertainty about it because I could never tell how well I did with it. I was fighting for people to play it and give feedback for a while, but it didn't amount to much of anything. Only recently did I find out what I needed to, and it came from someone I didn't even ask!
But, as others have said, it's important to listen to criticism and not give up. If there's something wrong with your game, people will tell you about it (sooner or later). And if you can't take that advice and learn from it, then you'll never see your projects flourish. I suppose the trickiest part is learning what to take as honest criticism and what to dismiss as assholishness.
I've come a long way with my stuff, but I was always in this state of uncertainty about it because I could never tell how well I did with it. I was fighting for people to play it and give feedback for a while, but it didn't amount to much of anything. Only recently did I find out what I needed to, and it came from someone I didn't even ask!
But, as others have said, it's important to listen to criticism and not give up. If there's something wrong with your game, people will tell you about it (sooner or later). And if you can't take that advice and learn from it, then you'll never see your projects flourish. I suppose the trickiest part is learning what to take as honest criticism and what to dismiss as assholishness.
author=Jparker1984 link=topic=2910.msg56535#msg56535 date=1232160287
sorry about the wrong area that i posted this in. But you know what gets me, when people cut up on what you have done. Then you look at their stuff and it's not much better.
Someone famous in this community once wisely said, "Criticism does not work on a "do better" system."
That said, this happens to me ALL THE GOD DAMN TIME.
demondestiny
889
author=Max McGee link=topic=2910.msg56608#msg56608 date=1232219929author=Jparker1984 link=topic=2910.msg56535#msg56535 date=1232160287
sorry about the wrong area that i posted this in. But you know what gets me, when people cut up on what you have done. Then you look at their stuff and it's not much better.
Someone famous in this community once wisely said, "Criticism does not work on a "do better" system."
who said that?
Darken
3952
author=Jparker1984 link=topic=2910.msg56535#msg56535 date=1232160287
sorry about the wrong area that i posted this in. But you know what gets me, when people cut up on what you have done. Then you look at their stuff and it's not much better.
I hate it when someone does the whole "Lets see YOU do better." So every movie critic MUST have did some acting, sound editing, script writing, directing, stunt work and other various expertise in order to review a movie? Do you have to be a politician in order to have a vote in something? Well this logic seems to have enlightened me. I'm taking down all of my reviews until I make a game better than all of the reviewed games.
I agree with your point, Darken, but it IS a little different when the critic is a fellow game developer. How can a critic expect someone to take them seriously when they have nothing to show they know what they're talking about, or worse; what they do have to show reveals them to be a total hypocrite. Good and bad are all matters of opinion, but I'd be less inclined to take game making advice from someone with a crappy history than from someone with more experience/better games.
