PROFESSIONALISM, NOW WITH LESS EXIT FATE

author=Blindmind link=topic=3159.msg62004#msg62004 date=1234755329
Please no.

Agreed. We can ask Holb to create a "bump your topic here" forum if that's what people want, but that's not going to help people get their games done. Real advertising belongs on the front page of the site, and requires playable games for the people passing by the site to download, which is the audience we should really be advertising to. The problem with the forums is that we're all advertising games to people who want to advertise their own games. Ideally, we could be helping each other grow as game developers.

author=S. F. LaValle link=topic=3159.msg62008#msg62008 date=1234755997
Agreed. We can ask Holb to create a "bump your topic here" forum if that's what people want, but that's not going to help people get their games done. Real advertising belongs on the front page of the site, and requires playable games for the people passing by the site to download, which is the audience we should really be advertising to.

Right, this. The issue with advertising in our community, in addition to what Neophyte said, is essentially that it's pretty much begun to come at the expense of making quality projects. Everyone's so stubbornly competitive that members are almost inherently conditioned to have the mindset of "What will people like?" or "How popular will this be?" rather than what could lead to genuine substance. WIP's argument is that having such large emphasis on a COMMUNITY FORUM only fosters this line of thinking, and I can't say I disagree.

I know there are certain members among us who believe that the idea of COMMUNITY should be our foremost aspiration in terms of developing the site, but this idea is fundamentally flawed. A worthwhile website cannot exist without a specified, structured purpose, and RMN's is making games. (Not having silly, senseless forum topics.) If the goal itself is successful, the community almost automatically is established, and I wish more people could consider that.

author=Shadowtext link=topic=3159.msg62017#msg62017 date=1234758280
The issue is more about how people are trying to make their game popular at the expense of spending time making it entertaining.

Well, right, this was pretty much what I was getting at. =[
(I think you just worded it more clearly than I did.)

author=AznChipmunk link=topic=3159.msg62020#msg62020 date=1234758652
huh, WIP is Christian Bale?



psst, am I progfressional?

EDIT: On a more serious note, I do totally despise things like devlogs and advertisement topics. They should be obliterated to make way for people who release stuff.

I mean, I haven't ever posted a game topic without releasing and my games don't get noticed as much as some of the real well-known ones, but, idk, posting advertisement topics everywhere feels d-dirty

Also, I think screenshot topics are a major problem because there is never enough criticism. Most of what I see is "hey looks good" which doesn't really help at all (which should be the purpose of showing screenshots: receiving feedback.)

I'm kinda okay with development blogs, but then I think of them as more something to be kept for the purposes of a post-mortem resource. When the project's done (remember, this is a hypothetical situation), going back and looking at the blog can help you figure out what you did right, and what you did wrong. Keeping them as a way of building up interest for the project is silly, but keeping them so as to just have a chronicle of the development process seems entirely reasonable to me.

Of course they would work best with an ACTUAL post-mortem. Sorta like how Wikipedia works best with real research on top of it.

I am completely in favor of hype.

The only reason people do advert topics is because they want attention. Or they are searching for positive reinforcement for a hobby that is so incredibly frivolous to make them feel better about wasting their time on something so fruitless.

I have no delusions about what I do. Its silly, its pointless, and its an entertaining waste of time. I'm long past the point where I might regard it as any kind of personal pursuit or investment, or that the fruits of my labour have any true objective worth.

I might share my work, but when I do, I do it for attention. To have people talk to me directly about an interest I have. Its completely selfish and self indulgent. I know this for a fact. Truthfully, I really don't care what you guys have to say about my work, because all I want to hear is the "looks cool, Blitzen".

Am I ever going to finish a game? I dunno. Do I care that you guys want me to finish a game? No. If I did, I'd feel bad about myself for pining for kudos from the internets to validate my self worth.

The "RM Industry" is such a joke. If anyone here really cared about "professionalism" they would probably be using a different medium to begin with.

That being said, I enjoy the hobby, but if you find yourself pining for replies in your advert topic day after day maybe you need another source of personal validation.

There are only a very small handful of good RPGMaker games.

author=myersguy link=topic=3159.msg62056#msg62056 date=1234769074
Heck, some games have even gone commercial

What are you talking about, Ara Fell?

That's the idea of having a forum. What WIP is talking about are those people that use it for hype and promotion and advertising instead.

Chill out, man. Chiiillll.

Simple solution: Go to the Random Screenshots on the front page. Pick one without refreshing and download the relevant game, if it is with download. If not, try again. Make a bulleted list of your observations. Turn those bullets into senances. Submit as review. Done.

This goes out to everyone, not just you FG. In fact, I think I'll do just that.

Honestly, F-G, what does making a topic about a game and bumping it all the time have to do with criticism?

The best thing you can do is make friends with a few honest critics, and get them to test your game repeatedly. There are people out there that do this. I did this myself for Badluck and Craze's games.

I will repeat that the most popular games in this community tend to be very quiet until a release. The Way, Master of the Wind, Quintessence, the afore-mentioned Last Scenario/Exit Fate, etc. all have/had closed beta-testing and don't release a great amount of information before or during release periods.