PROFESSIONALISM, NOW WITH LESS EXIT FATE

I'd really love to say that I am doing it all for fun. Unfortunately, I'd be lying. So would any of you. Obviously I'm not saying you aren't doing it for fun, but no one would turn their back on praise, that's why we are here. I'm not a fan of hype (Even though I'm guilty of it) but you want your hard work to be appreciated, you want a pat on the back, it's natural. So who cares?

I'm honestly failing to see what any of this has to do with professionalism anymore. RPG Maker IS a hobby. Or course it is. You don't need to be professional, if don't want to update your game, tell people about it or post it anywhere, that's up to you. But it's bloody retarded!

I know this has essentially been said over and over again, but whatever. *Walks out of this ridiculous topic*

author=Karsuman link=topic=3159.msg62127#msg62127 date=1234817463

author=Max McGee link=topic=3159.msg62121#msg62121 date=1234814131

It just became popular on its own merits.

This is a complete and total crapshoot that is based just as much on random chance as it is merit or advertising. I'd list examples but do I really have to? Is anyone contesting this point?

If you think a game's popularity is entirely a crapshoot than you really haven't been paying attention to this community.

Hell, RM* game popularity is starting to get predictable at this point.

Two Words: Aurora Wing. This is a game, both complete and by all accounts excellent, that several people have actually made a conscious effort to make popular and in spite of that it is still largely unknown.

It also has another problem:

In reality, people don't care all that much about CBS games. Sure, they SAY they do, but when it really comes down to it, games like Legend of the Philosopher's Stone and Aurora Wing face the same exact concerns every other game has when it comes to popularity. Sure, LotPS enjoys some modicum of popularity, but it doesn't really approach the heavy popularity some games do, and is never put in 'classic RM* games' lists.

Later, I will gladly make a list of what trends make RM* games popular and what makes others fail.

Edit: Okay, time for your lesson dudes.

Five Reasons your game isn't Popular

1) Lack of Disassociation with the Community, unwillingness to Step Outside the Community

As others have said, we are a community of developers, not of players. If you want to get more PLAYERS, be willing to step outside of the community and find them.

This is especially true if you ever want to make a commercial game.

Examples: Last Scenario/Exit Fate/Amanda Fae's games/Laxius Power/The Way


2) Your game isn't episodic

Decent episodic games have some sort of distinct charm that makes them gain a cult following rather quickly, and possibly, an outside community of supporters.

My belief? It's due to the interactive nature of these games. Players contribute suggestions that the makers can very well introduce, and become invested in an ongoing story. A main part of this is player reciprocation - if you respond to your players positively, they are more likely to become invested in your project.

Examples: The Way/Master of the Wind/Quintessence


3) Lack of abstract storytelling methods

This is more about creative storytelling than effective storytelling. Unusual storytelling methods tend to pique players interest more than traditional stories, even if those traditional stories are solid.

Examples: A Blurred Line/The Way

4) No Custom Art Assets

This is more true of the visual arts than the musical, though music can be a part of it. The art/music does not always need to be good. Also, this is generally more of a contributor than an automatic path to popularity.

Examples: Wilfred the Hero/Grave Spirit/Quintessence/Master of the Wind/Aedemphia/LoD/Alter AILA - Genesis/etc.

5) Lack of Charm & Flavor

A strange sense of humor. Weird design choices. Campiness. Quirky characters. While not a sure bet, people tend to remember your game because of these things. This tends to go hand-in-hand with above average writing, but not always.

Examples: Master of the Wind, Ara Fell, Demon Tower, Romancing Walker, Three the Hard Way.

Five things that people seem to think will make their game popular, but really don't:

1) Complicated systems. Scripts. Lots of minigames. Custom battle systems. Custom menus.

2) Non-Fantasy Genres. Sci-Fi/Horror/Post-Apoc/Dystopian/etc. or otherwise.

3) Completion.

4) Strong gameplay.

5) Strong writing.

This is not to say these things hurt. Certainly not. Many of the games above have these traits as well.

Really, the above is only a small set of a greater overall trend. Games that allow the player:

1) Author accessibility. The authors for most (not all) of the games are very public figures that are well-known by their respective communities for being devoted game makers. Even those that are NOT within the rpgmaker community. Almost all of them are not incredibly aggressive advertisers.

Familiarity breeds contempt.

2) Game accessibility. The games are not daunting, or push the gamer out of their worlds. They are inviting and pleasant, and lure us in.

3) Feedback accessibility. This is especially true of episodic games, which tend to gradually improve. People love it when you take their suggestions to heart and see it added to the next release. They feel like they are taking part in the game creation process, and really, they are.

That is all for now.

Episodic games are essentially just the same as "normal" games that release constant demos. Some episodic games, like Master Of The Wind, release all episodes conjoined together with each other each time a new one is added and so are exactly the same as a normal game that just happens to have released many demos. Whoever coined the phrase "episodic RPGMaker game" has fooled y'all.

This is a stupid argument.

They are planned in intervals, often as independent releases. Most games are planned on eventually being a full cohesive game in one package. But the dynamic of episodic games is completely different than that. If the game succeeds, we become invested in the world and can't wait to see the next part of the story. It's entirely different than receiving a new demo with altered content, bug fixes and a few balance changes.

Whether or not it is a 'series of demos' is irrelevant. It's all about psychology and expectations.

Firstly, it's not about having custom art, it is about having art that isn't seen often IMO. Games like Dragon Fantasy that use graphical styles that aren't encountered often, for instance. Custom art falls into this category most of the time, but custom art that happens to be in a common style probably isn't going to get as much interest as an uncommon, ripped style would.

For all the games I mentioned, it is an important part of their success. I have seen plenty of pretty games with pretty rips that are total flops. This is not nearly as common with games that have actual, custom art.

So, basically, no. It's not the same.

Also, add Sunset Over Imdahl to that list.

(And also, this is more of an internal community thing - those outside the community are liable to not give a shit.)

Also, Demon Tower has original art? Doesn't it use RM2K3 charasets exploded to a bigger size..? Or were the monsters custom? Not having seen the VX RTP I wouldn't actually know if the monsters were custom, but they are certainly in the style of VX RTP based on the RMVX games I have played.

I did not mention Demon Tower in that section, so this is pointless.

3) Completion.

4) Strong gameplay.

5) Strong writing.

I did not say they were not important. In matter of fact, I agree wholeheartedly with you, and that it is sad. But I don't think you get what I am saying. You have managed to miss the point of my entire post!

Those five things I mention above? They do not necessarily make a game GOOD. They make them POPULAR. THAT is the point. What makes a game GOOD is disconnected from what makes it POPULAR. Whether you value popularity or quality, or both, your success will be dependent on how you approach your game. Spamming your game topic will not help you. I repeat:

1) Author accessibility. The authors for most (not all) of the games are very public figures that are well-known by their respective communities for being devoted game makers. Even those that are NOT within the rpgmaker community. Almost all of them are not incredibly aggressive advertisers.

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Dude.

Psychology is not just some "silly thing." Karsuman is talking about real stuff that goes on in the minds of people--episodic adventures are individual releases. Sure, the story might not be 100% complete, but the immediate arc is tied up neatly. Thus, an episode != demo!

Have you ever watched a television show?

author=Fallen-Griever link=topic=3159.msg62322#msg62322 date=1234884847

Show

Psychology is not just some "silly thing."

As a chemist, I feel I must dispute this point, as Psychology is possibly one of the silliest things to ever be called a science. I'm actually 99% sure that Psychologists only manage to stay in a living because they are able to take common problems during childhood and turn them into big, scary afflictions. Screw Psychology.

I guess stuff like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, dissociative identity, and chronic depression are all silly things too, right? After all, it can't hurt much to have a condition where you're not even sure if the world around you is real. ::)

Oh, and marketing psychology must be silly too! I mean, building an analysis of what your consumer base thinks is just a waste of time, correct? Your line of thought is a prime example of why many TV executives fail so hard at their job.

WHAT THE BLUE ELEPHANTS ARE YOU GUYS TALKING ABOUT.
I think that if a game is not popular on its own merit, it is for two possible reasons:

1) It sucks, or
2) It looks like it sucks.

Its as simple as that.

The problem in our community is not a LACK OF professionalism, but a DELUSION professionalism. There is no "market". These are not "products". There is just the community, which truthfully, is just a bunch of kids, saying "look what I did!", some of us louder than others. So, don't take yourselves so seriously.

Striving for popularity for your game is like wanting to be one of the cool kids. If you have to try hard, you're doing it wrong.

I know, eh?

Q: You know who cares less (if at all) about your game and your game's progress than you do?
A: Everybody.