NEW BLOOD? PART DEUX

Obviously no one is good enough for F-G.

Because insulting people for being not-idle is great. :<

Also, if you are always jesting then can we lock you into the Moronic forum?

author=Fallen-Griever link=topic=3375.msg67765#msg67765 date=1237915635
You make half-games, so we have half-arsed ideas for getting more people to play games. I think the trade off is pretty fair.

That is probably the least offensive thing F-G has ever said.

author=VideoWizard link=topic=3375.msg67846#msg67846 date=1237951179
Ouch.

Also, last I checked, the amount of games that have had a review was nearly 40%- nothing short of FORCING people to play games will improve that.

It's actually much better than that. The previous statistic being tossed around was based on an erroneous figure that was kind of misleading.

I don't mind Play Something! It's not ideal, but it serves its purpose.

author=Anaryu link=topic=3375.msg67866#msg67866 date=1237968012
It's worth noting that I don't even see much excitement and plays for the people who are considered top developers anymore. Those who have been forcing themselves to play and give feedback are probably getting TIRED of it.

Can you really blame them, after all these years of it? As long as they're at least half-heartedly interested in the scene, I don't think any member is truly "tired" of playing quality projects, either. The community simply doesn't have the same level of influx that it did five years ago when things were consistently fresh and new experiences... and even if it (statistically) does, the activity itself is no longer fostered in the way it should be.

author=Holbert link=topic=3375.msg67869#msg67869 date=1237971168
Maybe that is necessary.

Absolutely. Rifts are fine as long as they are petty. =D


I feel a lot of what Anaryu is saying. Now, I don't have quite as much class (although I try most of the time!) and my finished games aren't up the quality of his team's games, but seriously. He has suggested to me in the past GO TO NON-RM* SITES and now I'm pretty sure that I will.

ALSO this is not only a problem with RMN. I can post a game on rpgmakervx.net, GW or RMXP.org and get anywhere from no replies to, like... three. Most of which are "I played for ten minutes!" or "I hate RMVX." I do usually get a few more posts on RMN, but that is only because I'm well known (in a town of eight people) and they are all "OH GOD WHERE IS THAT GAME YOU STARTED FOUR YEARS AGO!!!???!???!?!?"



MODIFY: I hate it when I can post a message in my topics (on multiple sites, not just RMN) that asks "WHY ARE YOU NOT PLAYING THIS GAME" and nobody responds.

http://www.rmxp.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=63197
This topic has more replies than my current game topic there (which has, uh... one reply, which is my own "OH HEY HERE'S A PATCH" bump).

author=Craze link=topic=3375.msg67874#msg67874 date=1237976387
MODIFY: I hate it when I can post a message in my topics (on multiple sites, not just RMN) that asks "WHY ARE YOU NOT PLAYING THIS GAME" and nobody responds.

http://www.rmxp.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=63197
This topic has more replies than my current game topic there (which has, uh... one reply, which is my own "OH HEY HERE'S A PATCH" bump).

Well, you can't expect much. Since RM is 95% developers and 5% players, people are mostly concerned about their projects only. They don't have time to play your game or spread the word of its greatness because they're only concerned about their project receiving that status. A project will not get anywhere on these websites because there is no word of mouth (players are the ones who do this). Sure, a project may be featured on the website or on the forum, but this is a limited boost in recognition of a project. It's like having your game being posted for a month and then being deleted altogether. This is essentially your 10 minutes of fame. After that, if you don't have an alternative way of spreading your project, you're basically done.

I am not one to speak nor am I bashing the way things are done here or on any other RM website, but it is just my observation of being here for so many years.

Also what Anaryu said x100.

So what is everyone's expectation anyway? I've asked this is admin forums, but I'll ask it here:

Do we want to help game makers, or showcase game makers?

The most common answer I got was:

Why can't we be both?

I'll tell you:

We've run that "both" experiment for the past year, and what we have turned into is a site that does not cater effectively to either camp (makers, showcasers/players).

We cannot be all things to all people, especially with so few staff and a smallish core userbase, and I think our strength currently lies with being able to showcase games, rather than supporting their creation. Our awards show (Misaos) is about showing off games. Our games database is about showing off games. Our ability to add reviews, comments and ratings are about providing feedback to games. This is where we are strongest at the moment, site-code-wise and in terms of events.

On the flipside, our tutorial and article sections are weak and often neglected. Our support forum is filled with piddling questions (plus we have no dedicated members there with the patience to answer these questions...except for a few like GreatRedSpirit. I drop in from time to time to help, but I don't spend much effort there) and our Resource section is small (and incomplete).

So I guess it comes down do we want to help game makers, or showcase game makers?

I'm for a bigger push to showcasing. An attractive site with a strong showcasing ability will help attract players. We need a revamp to the game pages and game searching.

However, if we decide to be helpers, we need to promote some members to "Official Helper-outers" in the Support forum. We need a slew of basic tutorials added ("How to make a door", "How to make a chest", "How to bait a switch", etc .. ". We need to emphasize our articles (Featured Article maybe?). We need Brickroad back. We need a well-rounded and filled Resource Section (qualms or no qualms WIP...if you want to be a resource, you need resources).

Of course, showcasing and helping are not mutually exclusive, but I believe our priority should be showcasing for now.




Game Pages
For the game page, we need ways to identify and highlight achievements and quality:
-- It is/was a Featured Game
-- It was nominated for Misaos
-- How many Misaos it's won
-- It has 20+ subscribers
-- It has 50+ downloads
-- It is a Contributor's Choice
-- ...other stuff maybe...

And things like Last Updated Time ...needs to take into account comments, I think. I know when Ephiam updates his game log, but I don't know if anyone has commented on it.


Pre-production
We currently only really support games that are complete or near completion. That is our current philosophy. It needs to change. Right now we require a game to have a fair amount of production to go into it before we accept it. We need 3 screens, and a lengthy description. This cuts out what I feel is a viable game: The Pre-production game.

I propose we add a new Status called "Pre-Production" - games that are just starting out

Games submitted as Pre-production would have a different standards - the requirements for the Details section will be stricter (and require more detail), but there will be no Screenshot requirement or Demo requirement.

In that way, projects that have an earnest list of ideas could get a page. Also, Advert-like games could possibly fall in this category? (Games without demos).

(Pre-production games would have 1 default "screenshot" that says "Pre-production" or "RMN" so that we don't get the whole NO IMAGE thing happening.)

This can get the Games Search Page cluttered very quickly. One option will be to exclude Pre-production games from the Games Search Page (I think this is a good solution). But the Games Search Page is cluttered anyway, which I address with...

a new Game attribute: State

Active / Inactive

Calculated attribute associated with a game (but not stored in the database), based on the Last Updated date. A new game defaults to Active. After a specified time elapses (say, 2 months), the game would be categorized as Inactive.

The Games Search/List Page would display only Active games by default (with a toggle or tab for All Games). That way our games page isn't cluttered with abandonned-ware

Caveats:
-Completed Games are always Active
-Cancelled Games are always Inactive

(or perhaps we order the games list by Completed/Production/Hiatus/Cancelled first, then by alphabetical order)


Member Profiles
Aside from that, I think that we can expand on the profile. A lot of people are showcasing their work in the forums, be it music, or drawings or pixel art. But the forum is not permanent...Do you think it could be a good idea to have a "Showcase" tab section that users could upload (or just insert Posts/Logs) work permanently? Like, Karsuman could make a new Showcase Log for his latest asspear smoking a cigar. Or Him could post his latest melody.

I imagine it like a Game Log with the ability to add an URL or IMG tag. People could add comments to it like a regualr game log, too. People might even be able to subscribe to a member's showcase.

If we expand the concept of profiles, we should probably add a Bio section, too.


Conclusion
I view the Game Page as a vehicle to track and show the progress made on a game. So why do we have a minimum completeness threshold before we accept the game?

If we aim to be showcase, we have to allow the entire lifecycle of the game to be shown.

People are going to post about "Hey Looks, I have a new DBZ Game: Goku's Wrath! I just started it!" somewhere, and right now it ends up cluttering the forums (although this hasn't become a big problem here).

If your concern is tons of abandoned projects, while valid, is addressed by the Active / Inactive plan. If that's not enough, we can periodically purge the inactive games.

Also, we can lower the inactive threshold for games in Pre-production to somehting like 2-3 weeks.

I will advocate a Pre-production stage as it encourages activity. Our game pages are very static, and I think it's because the games that are up there are stuck at 80% complete. We need to get more activity.

A strong push for showcasing and generating feedback will help draw in more players.

author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=3375.msg67898#msg67898 date=1237996000
I read all of that kentona, and it sounds great. Honestly, it seems you've covered the bases with a plan like that. The question is, when/how can these ideas be implemented?

Good question. The original post in the admin forum is dated March 3rd, 2008.

I think we're over-thinking this a lot.

I owe a lot to my first contest because joining on that whim took me away from my "80-hour epic RPG!" and taught me an important lesson that I've worked by since:

Start small and start now. You'll learn from your mistakes and improve as long as you keep going forward.

We're already a good tool for developers; why? Because the only "tool" we hobbyist developers really need is confirmation that we're not alone, attention to screenshots/videos and our thoughts on development, and a place to ask questions (which ideally get answered.) I think developers just want a like-minded community, and that is already established and more "technology" would only complicate it.


Addressing our concerns with more technology isn't really the answer in my mind; we need to start with what we CAN do:

1. Clean up/organize the game database
2. Present more useful/friendly front-page data to visitors

We can worry more about pulling in more players or adding new technologies to automate game states, etc, after we address those.

author=WIP link=topic=3375.msg67915#msg67915 date=1238005490
Well realize both of those requests involve more technology, Ana. =)

Cleaning up the Games database shouldn't; although adding a few new attributes to manage or to archive games would be neat.

Changing the front-page is more a matter of re-organizing it, the recent changes to adding more screenshots and recent updates and reviews show that modifying that page is certainly possible and a recent change.

The second might require some programming, sure, but it shouldn't need to introduce new technologies necessarily.