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Feldschlacht IV
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CloseI've expressed sentiment before about the need for this community (or any community, really) to have a fresh influx of people to keep the gears turning and things rolling. RMN is definitely growing nicely, but I think we could use improvement on the variety department, I just don't really think we're all that diverse, especially for something as multifaceted as game making. A lot of us are just 'Average Joes', people who don't express any particular creative talent in general to contribute to the community.
I think the site as a whole needs to see more spriters, writers (as in, writers), musicians, Flash wizards coders, and the like. Yes, we already have those, but what I mean are people who actively express those talents. More DE's, Blitzens, Corels, Harmonics, Karsumans. More people who can not only produce great things in their own projects, but people who can and are willing to lend their talents to the community as a whole, to projects, game making events, and other things. Of course, this is no disrespect to the artists we already have, but we need more. More diversity and variety in the community to create awesome things with each other and in our own games.
My idea to help in this Renaissance movement was to do it by word of mouth; even if you're not an artist yourself, it's likely you know one or are a member of a community with some; tell them about this place. Are you a spriter? Tell your spriter friends about this place? Are you a musician? Let your fellow music makers know! Are you a worthless bum with no talent? Chances are you know people with talent! Tell them! Let them know, and they'll come and check the place out, and let their friends know, and so on. Spriting communities, Deviant Art, music making communities, Newgrounds, etc, they're all full of people who are potentially interested in game making or making things for game makers.
The growth of the community (and I don't mean just the community, but our game making and producing potential overall) could be greatly increased and enhanced if you (you as in reading this) would spread the word about this place, get fresh people, ideas, and talent to come here, and we can all make games and game babies together. I made this topic to generate action, not just posts that go "Yeah, you're right! *sits around*."
I think the site as a whole needs to see more spriters, writers (as in, writers), musicians, Flash wizards coders, and the like. Yes, we already have those, but what I mean are people who actively express those talents. More DE's, Blitzens, Corels, Harmonics, Karsumans. More people who can not only produce great things in their own projects, but people who can and are willing to lend their talents to the community as a whole, to projects, game making events, and other things. Of course, this is no disrespect to the artists we already have, but we need more. More diversity and variety in the community to create awesome things with each other and in our own games.
My idea to help in this Renaissance movement was to do it by word of mouth; even if you're not an artist yourself, it's likely you know one or are a member of a community with some; tell them about this place. Are you a spriter? Tell your spriter friends about this place? Are you a musician? Let your fellow music makers know! Are you a worthless bum with no talent? Chances are you know people with talent! Tell them! Let them know, and they'll come and check the place out, and let their friends know, and so on. Spriting communities, Deviant Art, music making communities, Newgrounds, etc, they're all full of people who are potentially interested in game making or making things for game makers.
The growth of the community (and I don't mean just the community, but our game making and producing potential overall) could be greatly increased and enhanced if you (you as in reading this) would spread the word about this place, get fresh people, ideas, and talent to come here, and we can all make games and game babies together. I made this topic to generate action, not just posts that go "Yeah, you're right! *sits around*."
Blind
2262
I've this same conversation with several people here before, and I actually agree with Mog's sentiment quite a lot. A more diverse and dynamic range of opinions (and skills) could most certainly complement the talent that already exists here, just as I think having a group of members who all think, work and contribute in exactly the same way could potentially even hurt the productivity. This doesn't necessarily even mean that the varied ideals would contradict or spite each-other, but rather open everyone up to a wider spectrum of knowledge, awareness and potential.
So absolutely I encourage everyone to invite "outsiders" into our community, be their interest art, anime, photography, film, music composition... whatever, really. Even for those who look at this as "wasting space" on the site, odds are that nearly all of these sensibilities tie-in with game design in some way, shape or form, so there isn't really a substantial reason not to welcome them here.
So absolutely I encourage everyone to invite "outsiders" into our community, be their interest art, anime, photography, film, music composition... whatever, really. Even for those who look at this as "wasting space" on the site, odds are that nearly all of these sensibilities tie-in with game design in some way, shape or form, so there isn't really a substantial reason not to welcome them here.
This is a sentiment that applies to everyone, especially if you've been here for a while. If you've been too embarrassed or something of your game making hobby to suggest it to your friends, now's the time to cut it short and spread the word to get some new diversity and ideas here. We can't have the same 30 people plugging away at game making for the next 50 years without expecting stagnation or a stop in the flow of ideas.
Man I am going to flip a shit if this gets like 200 views and like 3 replies or something.
Man I am going to flip a shit if this gets like 200 views and like 3 replies or something.
Here's your third reply.
Seriously though, I think we do need more people with fresh ideas. Not only will there ideas be fresh, but they might inspire us to new and exciting eurekas.
Seriously though, I think we do need more people with fresh ideas. Not only will there ideas be fresh, but they might inspire us to new and exciting eurekas.
Ideally, this is a good sentiment to have, as growth and variety are always great things. However, due to certain...beliefs held by some elements of the community, it could be one very difficult sentiment to realize. One recent example is the resources debate, and how some posters basically believed all indie game resources belonged to the public domain, no matter what. Some people within that group actually believed that by comparison, they viewed indie resources as being inconsequential in the scheme of things.
If we want more people to contribute, then more respect for other people's works should also be shown. You don't necessarily have to like those works, but stating that because they are RPG Maker resources they should be worth less than a commercial game's resources is a counterproductive fallacy.
Also, the word "variety" kinda strikes a funny note within me, because there seems to be a few set models that everyone expects games, artwork, music, etc. to follow. Before we begin to desire variety, we should learn to accept variety ourselves. :)
If we want more people to contribute, then more respect for other people's works should also be shown. You don't necessarily have to like those works, but stating that because they are RPG Maker resources they should be worth less than a commercial game's resources is a counterproductive fallacy.
Also, the word "variety" kinda strikes a funny note within me, because there seems to be a few set models that everyone expects games, artwork, music, etc. to follow. Before we begin to desire variety, we should learn to accept variety ourselves. :)
I figure most people would agree with the sentiments in this topic, but they're pretty much worthless unless we (once again, we as in you reading this) do something about it. As much as I want posts supporting the idea and "Yeah I agree!", I also want posts that amount to "Yes, I'm going to do this!" or "I'm doing this right now!"
People are pretty good for agreeing, but when it comes time for action, everyone is prone to just sitting around and staring at each other.
People are pretty good for agreeing, but when it comes time for action, everyone is prone to just sitting around and staring at each other.
S. F. LaValle
1069
People artistically talented, for the most part, wish to ensure they are attaching their work to a quality project. There are plenty of great games around here, to be sure. The problem I see with the lack of newcomers is the stigma a lot of people have against game creation software outside of RM2k/2k3.
The argument has been done to death, but I seriously don't predict a growth in the community until people are prepared to do a little work of their own. Everyone has their own talent when it comes to game making, without a doubt, there has to be SOME reason they want to create. Those who use rm2k/2k3 with ripped resources, sprite edits, pro game music, etc. still have to be doing it for a reason, such as writing a story they like. Since most people end up leaving everything but the writing to outside resources (unless they do find help), rm2k/2k3 is ideal because everything is there for them. However, if these same people want help with their own games, they should be willing to put in some extra work themselves...use a maker with a scripting engine, and learn to do a little scripting. Or, at least download and use pre-made scripts and customize them.
When you're willing to show how much work you dedicate to a project, people will be more receptive to creating resources for that project. Since we have so many RM2k/3 games being made and submitted, it's hard for passer-bys to notice originality and effort on the front page of the site.
The argument has been done to death, but I seriously don't predict a growth in the community until people are prepared to do a little work of their own. Everyone has their own talent when it comes to game making, without a doubt, there has to be SOME reason they want to create. Those who use rm2k/2k3 with ripped resources, sprite edits, pro game music, etc. still have to be doing it for a reason, such as writing a story they like. Since most people end up leaving everything but the writing to outside resources (unless they do find help), rm2k/2k3 is ideal because everything is there for them. However, if these same people want help with their own games, they should be willing to put in some extra work themselves...use a maker with a scripting engine, and learn to do a little scripting. Or, at least download and use pre-made scripts and customize them.
When you're willing to show how much work you dedicate to a project, people will be more receptive to creating resources for that project. Since we have so many RM2k/3 games being made and submitted, it's hard for passer-bys to notice originality and effort on the front page of the site.
That's not so much of an issue as it used to, considering that RMXP and RMVX use is growing exponentially. The beauty is that RM2K3 isn't dying out, so there's definitely potential for a beautiful symbiosis. Combine that with examples of excellent projects being made in RM2K3 like Demon Legacy and Balmung Cycle, there should be plenty of reason for artistically inclined inside the community and out to pitch in their talents in every maker.
Hmm, let's bring a bunch of artists here so we can use them as a resource mine for our gams.
You know, if you are making a game in any serious capacity then make the connections to people with the skills you need, get your team going, and get the job done. When you are done upload the game to the site for everyone to play. As cool as it is to discuss WORLD ECONOMY or WHAT IS YOUR TOP 10 FAVORITE WHITE WINES it does not really matter if those artists post on the forums or not. It is very rare that you get an artist who frequents a forum and regularly does requests. Those people may occasionally be able to help someone with some minute aspect of their project, but on the whole it is not going to significantly impact the collective game production line, which is really what matters on a site like this.
Most effective collaborative efforts are organized "behind the scenes". In the rare instance that some sort of forum-based collaboration initiative does come up, it usually falls apart before anything is produced. Probably because the team members don't have the strong camaraderie and understanding that those with more personal "e-connections" have. And finally, the truth is most serious artists, composers, and coders - the truly good ones - are not interested in helping out with xXdarklord421Xx's RPG maker project, they have their own agendas and pressing considerations to deal with, and if they ever would consider making a significant contribution to someone else's project it would be for a personal friend rather than a forum acquaintance.
You know, if you are making a game in any serious capacity then make the connections to people with the skills you need, get your team going, and get the job done. When you are done upload the game to the site for everyone to play. As cool as it is to discuss WORLD ECONOMY or WHAT IS YOUR TOP 10 FAVORITE WHITE WINES it does not really matter if those artists post on the forums or not. It is very rare that you get an artist who frequents a forum and regularly does requests. Those people may occasionally be able to help someone with some minute aspect of their project, but on the whole it is not going to significantly impact the collective game production line, which is really what matters on a site like this.
Most effective collaborative efforts are organized "behind the scenes". In the rare instance that some sort of forum-based collaboration initiative does come up, it usually falls apart before anything is produced. Probably because the team members don't have the strong camaraderie and understanding that those with more personal "e-connections" have. And finally, the truth is most serious artists, composers, and coders - the truly good ones - are not interested in helping out with xXdarklord421Xx's RPG maker project, they have their own agendas and pressing considerations to deal with, and if they ever would consider making a significant contribution to someone else's project it would be for a personal friend rather than a forum acquaintance.
Mr. Y
300
I agree with you, and yet I'm not sure about what specifically I can do- I think others may feel the same. As an older member (although I think a lot of members can consider themselves older members), I'm kind of in a situation where everyone I really know well has either disappeared from gamemaking, has gone awesome-cool-postmodern/idiot-on-the-Internet, or doesn't really remember/like me :o.
At least for others who know others, I agree that informal networking is the best stuff. I think it would also help for RPGMaker.net to identify the websites now growing (which, I feel, are different from just 2-4 years ago), then develop complementary services to lure those people over there. If we're not directly competing with those websites, but only providing *more* services, then that can be appreciated. For instance, right now I feel that there's a severe lack of a *central* gamemaking website, only disparate websites that specialize heavily in specific gamemaking programs or in graphics/tutorials (a website for RMVX, a website for RM2K/3 sprites, etc.)
From the limited amount I understand, I think RMN is doing good with the heavy emphasis on game reviews and featured games, and I think this could improve even more with a strong push for well-written articles like MayorAnime has written recently. It's hard to come up with incentives for writers on a free website (run at cost by the owners), but even if we're just identifying good articles and games on the web now and then getting permission to put it up on RMN, that'd be good. It'd be nice to organize enough to seek out good content published on other websites by non-staffers and ask those people for permission to put their stuff on our "central" location website- the difference for us could be having the largest, consistently best database of games, reviews, and articles, while other websites are less organized and have more scattershot samplings of good and bad content.
Anyways, just my two cents- I don't feel I know many people to recommend to RMN, and I probably don't understand the gamemaking community as a whole as well as I used to, but I've always approached challenges like this from a unique-content angle.
At least for others who know others, I agree that informal networking is the best stuff. I think it would also help for RPGMaker.net to identify the websites now growing (which, I feel, are different from just 2-4 years ago), then develop complementary services to lure those people over there. If we're not directly competing with those websites, but only providing *more* services, then that can be appreciated. For instance, right now I feel that there's a severe lack of a *central* gamemaking website, only disparate websites that specialize heavily in specific gamemaking programs or in graphics/tutorials (a website for RMVX, a website for RM2K/3 sprites, etc.)
From the limited amount I understand, I think RMN is doing good with the heavy emphasis on game reviews and featured games, and I think this could improve even more with a strong push for well-written articles like MayorAnime has written recently. It's hard to come up with incentives for writers on a free website (run at cost by the owners), but even if we're just identifying good articles and games on the web now and then getting permission to put it up on RMN, that'd be good. It'd be nice to organize enough to seek out good content published on other websites by non-staffers and ask those people for permission to put their stuff on our "central" location website- the difference for us could be having the largest, consistently best database of games, reviews, and articles, while other websites are less organized and have more scattershot samplings of good and bad content.
Anyways, just my two cents- I don't feel I know many people to recommend to RMN, and I probably don't understand the gamemaking community as a whole as well as I used to, but I've always approached challenges like this from a unique-content angle.
Hmm, let's bring a bunch of artists here so we can use them as a resource mine for our gams.
That is definitely not what I intend. Please don't misinterpret this topic to mean that.
Blind
2262
author=Mr. Y link=topic=3375.msg67279#msg67279 date=1237687161This is a pretty valid point. I believe, however, that Mog in no way wishes for RMN to become generalized for the sake of being generalized-- he wishes to create diversity for the sake of benefiting the members and projects of the community itself. We've had this (or a similar) discussion before, and I even advocated strongly against the idea when GW suggested a disposal of its central intent and purpose. That turned out to be, of course, an exaggeration made by two or three spiteful staff members, but the point remains the same: if we were to "bring over new blood" to the site, it would at least in some way be for the sake of improving productivity and increasing the variety of the games showcased here. I don't know how practical that ideal actually is, but let's at least be clear about (and not try to distort) the intent.
I agree with you, and yet I'm not sure about what specifically I can do- I think others may feel the same. As an older member (although I think a lot of members can consider themselves older members), I'm kind of in a situation where everyone I really know well has either disappeared from gamemaking, has gone awesome-cool-postmodern/idiot-on-the-Internet, or doesn't really remember/like me :o.
At least for others who know others, I agree that informal networking is the best stuff. I think it would also help for RPGMaker.net to identify the websites now growing (which, I feel, are different from just 2-4 years ago), then develop complementary services to lure those people over there. If we're not directly competing with those websites, but only providing *more* services, then that can be appreciated. For instance, right now I feel that there's a severe lack of a *central* gamemaking website, only disparate websites that specialize heavily in specific gamemaking programs or in graphics/tutorials (a website for RMVX, a website for RM2K/3 sprites, etc.)
From the limited amount I understand, I think RMN is doing good with the heavy emphasis on game reviews and featured games, and I think this could improve even more with a strong push for well-written articles like MayorAnime has written recently. It's hard to come up with incentives for writers on a free website (run at cost by the owners), but even if we're just identifying good articles and games on the web now and then getting permission to put it up on RMN, that'd be good. It'd be nice to organize enough to seek out good content published on other websites by non-staffers and ask those people for permission to put their stuff on our "central" location website- the difference for us could be having the largest, consistently best database of games, reviews, and articles, while other websites are less organized and have more scattershot samplings of good and bad content.
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=3375.msg67260#msg67260 date=1237683034
I made this topic to generate action, not just posts that go "Yeah, you're right! *sits around*."
Haha, you are right, a lot of people do this. I personally don't know many people who are actually talented and willing to work... most people I know are useless for these types of jobs. I have met some spriters, but I'm not friends with them, as a matter of fact I should say they are just plain cocky to offer their help to anyone, not even their feedback... so it's just me in this area. I don't mind contributing to be honest, I like it here... but I prefer to do it later on, as I keep getting better at this... so this is something we could talk about later on.
You go to Deviant Art, man. Regardless if you 'know' people there or not, get the word out. This is what I'm talking about; explore every avenue you have.
What would anyone from Deviant Art or anywhere else get out of posting here, particularly since they would likely not be interested in game making? (Otherwise they would already have some venue for exercising that interest!) Really the goal here is to get people with skills to post on the forums so RMN members can hit them up for resources without having to go to the effort of proposing a serious collaborative effort to an established off-site artist. It really just comes back to expanding the site's membership, except this time we want worthwhile people, not just random slags coming in with their Naruto fangames.
If people at RMN make really awesome game projects, then maybe artists would be inclined to gather here and find something to contribute to. RMN does not yet have the kind of reputation as a place of vibrant creative integrity for that to happen.
If people at RMN make really awesome game projects, then maybe artists would be inclined to gather here and find something to contribute to. RMN does not yet have the kind of reputation as a place of vibrant creative integrity for that to happen.
Neok
3602
Yeah, if you want highly-skilled people to participate in the community, you're probably gonna have to give a better incentive then what we've got right now.
Ciel might act like an ass sometimes, but his head's screwed on tighter than you guys probably give him credit for.
Ciel might act like an ass sometimes, but his head's screwed on tighter than you guys probably give him credit for.
Trust me, this isn't about getting creative/artistic people here so everyone can leech off them. It's about expanding the member and interest base.
This, pretty much. Even now since I talked with Blind and made this topic, I've been getting in reach with people from various communities. While a lot of them will inevitably not be interested or be doing their own thing, some of them respond with "Hmm, RPG Maker/Sphere/Gamemaker? I've never heard of those engines. I'm going to check them out" or "Game making? Sounds cool", and there goes a prospective member right there. And of course some of those people have indeed heard of those engines, or have formerly dabbled in them, but it took someone actually asking them up front if they're interested in joining the community before they actually do. While artists helping out other people and collaboration is cool, I just want new blood and community expansion, period.
I mean you have to at least try. Cynicism gets us nowhere.
It really just comes back to expanding the site's membership, except this time we want worthwhile people, not just random slags coming in with their Naruto fangames.
This, pretty much. Even now since I talked with Blind and made this topic, I've been getting in reach with people from various communities. While a lot of them will inevitably not be interested or be doing their own thing, some of them respond with "Hmm, RPG Maker/Sphere/Gamemaker? I've never heard of those engines. I'm going to check them out" or "Game making? Sounds cool", and there goes a prospective member right there. And of course some of those people have indeed heard of those engines, or have formerly dabbled in them, but it took someone actually asking them up front if they're interested in joining the community before they actually do. While artists helping out other people and collaboration is cool, I just want new blood and community expansion, period.
I mean you have to at least try. Cynicism gets us nowhere.
Until people get off their butts. :(
Although this is a bit different from the usual "get moar people here" topics.
Although this is a bit different from the usual "get moar people here" topics.
You are asking for unsustainable growth.
Artists are a rarity on any RPG Maker forum. You usually end up with game developers that have forced themselves to learn how to sprite. Real artists are off making real art.
If we truly wanted new blood, we would focus less on RM2K/3 and put a lot more energy into the RMVX and AGM arenas. The size of the communities that are already being built around those two engines is staggering considering the sheer lack of quality of the sites pushing them.
Then again, the large majority of them are total noobs and Karsuman would pull out his hair moderating all of them.
Artists are a rarity on any RPG Maker forum. You usually end up with game developers that have forced themselves to learn how to sprite. Real artists are off making real art.
If we truly wanted new blood, we would focus less on RM2K/3 and put a lot more energy into the RMVX and AGM arenas. The size of the communities that are already being built around those two engines is staggering considering the sheer lack of quality of the sites pushing them.
Then again, the large majority of them are total noobs and Karsuman would pull out his hair moderating all of them.
