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PARTICIPATION IN THE GAME MAKING COMMUNITY
Posts
Feldschlacht IV
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CloseI admit Play Something was a bust, but that's far from 'consistent'. It's an idea that didn't take. Everyone has them.
I am well aware of what a community is supposed to be, having been a part of communities from sports to work my entire life.
The community is about game development, but the community itself and everyone in it isn't just about game development. Sharing ideas, opinions, and thoughts about silly stuff like 'working out' and our thoughts on politics or whatever has kept me here as much as talking about screenshots and elemental interpretations. I mean I could really talk about game development anywhere. RMN isn't the only place on the net to do so. As much as RMN's awesome features keep me here, so do the people themselves.
I suppose I may be 'wrong' since I'm looking at this from the perspective of myself, but over the course of my life when I've been a part of a community from a sports team, Key Club, or even a job, forging relationships and ideas other than what said group is originally focused on has kept me there. I'm not saying take away the spotlight on what we're here for and putting it on ourselves, but taking away even the option of other aspects of a community isn't the way to go, I think. It's extremist and I've never seen it work anywhere.
post=100733
People can talk about games and silly stuff anywhere (including the underused #rpgmaker.net irc chat). The community is about game development, and people wouldn't stop discussing that just because they also couldn't say what they were thinking about a few minutes later.
I am well aware of what a community is supposed to be, having been a part of communities from sports to work my entire life.
The community is about game development, but the community itself and everyone in it isn't just about game development. Sharing ideas, opinions, and thoughts about silly stuff like 'working out' and our thoughts on politics or whatever has kept me here as much as talking about screenshots and elemental interpretations. I mean I could really talk about game development anywhere. RMN isn't the only place on the net to do so. As much as RMN's awesome features keep me here, so do the people themselves.
I suppose I may be 'wrong' since I'm looking at this from the perspective of myself, but over the course of my life when I've been a part of a community from a sports team, Key Club, or even a job, forging relationships and ideas other than what said group is originally focused on has kept me there. I'm not saying take away the spotlight on what we're here for and putting it on ourselves, but taking away even the option of other aspects of a community isn't the way to go, I think. It's extremist and I've never seen it work anywhere.
Kaempfer
1932
YES THIS HELPS THE COMMUNITY GUYS GREAT INTRACOMMUNITY ARGUING
I will join in!
arcan, it really does boil down to you being used to what is effectively a vastly inferior, terribly organized system that doesn't promote anything but the absolute newest topics. It's dumb. I come from GW and RMN has a much better database for games. It ridiculously easy to find and search through it. I think it took me literally 15 seconds to get used to it. I was like "yo where da games at" (how I speak in real life) and then I found them. If you can't wrap your brain around it your brain is broke
Mog I don't think the other seconds do much but promote aimless activity. It's good if you are aiming to promote an active forum where nothing important is ever said or done, but aside from a few community-building side forums, the other forums are really "hey guys check out my dong" (or may as well be). HOWEVER
WIP I don't think RMN is exactly overrun with side forums. There are the General foum and the Moronic Stuff forum which are more or less the same thing, and then there is the artistic forum which can easily relate to video games (since music and things of that nature are needed by all great games) and the video games forum which ideally would be a place to discuss the finer points of commercial video games and how they relate directly to independent game design. While it's not, it still could easily fill that role. The introduction forum is a nice aside to let people know who is entering or leaving the community, which is important is you are on the look out for a member or project, no?
All in all, I'd say RMN has a fairly good balance as is, although certainly General and Moronic Stuff could be merged, as who gives a shit about Moronic Stuff? HEY HERE IS AN ADMITTEDLY DUMB POST. OK don't make it then!
Now what will you lazy sots be doing to improve the community (aside from WIP obvious ha ha ha!!!)?
I will join in!
arcan, it really does boil down to you being used to what is effectively a vastly inferior, terribly organized system that doesn't promote anything but the absolute newest topics. It's dumb. I come from GW and RMN has a much better database for games. It ridiculously easy to find and search through it. I think it took me literally 15 seconds to get used to it. I was like "yo where da games at" (how I speak in real life) and then I found them. If you can't wrap your brain around it your brain is broke
Mog I don't think the other seconds do much but promote aimless activity. It's good if you are aiming to promote an active forum where nothing important is ever said or done, but aside from a few community-building side forums, the other forums are really "hey guys check out my dong" (or may as well be). HOWEVER
WIP I don't think RMN is exactly overrun with side forums. There are the General foum and the Moronic Stuff forum which are more or less the same thing, and then there is the artistic forum which can easily relate to video games (since music and things of that nature are needed by all great games) and the video games forum which ideally would be a place to discuss the finer points of commercial video games and how they relate directly to independent game design. While it's not, it still could easily fill that role. The introduction forum is a nice aside to let people know who is entering or leaving the community, which is important is you are on the look out for a member or project, no?
All in all, I'd say RMN has a fairly good balance as is, although certainly General and Moronic Stuff could be merged, as who gives a shit about Moronic Stuff? HEY HERE IS AN ADMITTEDLY DUMB POST. OK don't make it then!
Now what will you lazy sots be doing to improve the community (aside from WIP obvious ha ha ha!!!)?
post=100737
Mog I don't think the other seconds do much but promote aimless activity. It's good if you are aiming to promote an active forum where nothing important is ever said or done, but aside from a few community-building side forums, the other forums are really "hey guys check out my dong" (or may as well be). HOWEVER
Maybe it's because I'm really tired from work and it's late (and I have work tomorrow morning hooray) but can you edit your post and rephrase this?
S. F. LaValle
1069
Mog: He's saying the general forums are pointless and do nothing to promote participation as it pertains to this topic and the site's goals.
He's right, too, but I still think that there would be no point in cutting them out. Consolidating them on the other hand....
Oh, and this is just my wish list, but I'd like to see an Artistry forum that's unpolluted by "What did you think of this movie?" or "What did you think of this book, or album" topics. I think the Art forum should be restricted ONLY to forum members' own creations.
He's right, too, but I still think that there would be no point in cutting them out. Consolidating them on the other hand....
Oh, and this is just my wish list, but I'd like to see an Artistry forum that's unpolluted by "What did you think of this movie?" or "What did you think of this book, or album" topics. I think the Art forum should be restricted ONLY to forum members' own creations.
Why don't you tell us exactly what the site's goals are and then we can decide if we agree or not because there are different users with different goals here. I for one don't agree that making games is the only goal we have here. It may have started that way but that isn't the case anymore.
post=100740
Mog: He's saying the general forums are pointless and do nothing to promote participation as it pertains to this topic and the site's goals.
He's right, too, but I still think that there would be no point in cutting them out. Consolidating them on the other hand....
There is no real point in cutting them out. It's pointless. Yes, the Moronic Forum for example can go, but general discussion, or talking about our opinions on movies or video games does promote community building which does help keep a community together, even as a secondary goal. I agree with Kaempfer that the balance is pretty good as it is.
S. F. LaValle
1069
Edit: To arcan
Not that we don't respect the opinions of our community members (we do, as I said earlier regarding community discussions regarding forum changes), but no site was ever built successfully by opening its fundamental goals for public debate. A site is only what the site's creator, or proprietor, or otherwise top-level staff want it to be. It's their vision, and we are all here because we found something in that vision to appreciate. If they are unsure about what they want, then they might ask. But they're not.
Not that we don't respect the opinions of our community members (we do, as I said earlier regarding community discussions regarding forum changes), but no site was ever built successfully by opening its fundamental goals for public debate. A site is only what the site's creator, or proprietor, or otherwise top-level staff want it to be. It's their vision, and we are all here because we found something in that vision to appreciate. If they are unsure about what they want, then they might ask. But they're not.
Well, arcan, the sites goals, if I may state in lieu of the creators, are to promote game creation, playing, and development. I don't think anyone here has a problem with that in itself, man.
I don't think removing the forums will have any positive effect. If people are not playing and discussing games on the site that is a problem with one of three things; the games themselves, the users, or the site interface (the way the site presents unknown games to new audiences). While I think there are problems with the former two, the easiest issue to address is the site.
I don't think the front page offers enough exposure/information about games. While it would kind of remove the point of having a "featured" game, I think all the games on the front page should have that level of exposure, so new audiences don't have to randomly click around to find something potential interesting. There should be a more visible screenshot along with some information about the game, like a synopsis of the story and basic game play.
There seems to be enough space in the design to allow for a larger screenshot and more text. Additionally, I think the "random screenshots" should be a bit larger and offer the synopsis when you mouse over them. I don't know how difficult those changed would be to make, but I think a few really simple ideas like that would make games more accessible and as a result encourage people to try new things without having to politely ask them to with a special forum event.
I don't think the front page offers enough exposure/information about games. While it would kind of remove the point of having a "featured" game, I think all the games on the front page should have that level of exposure, so new audiences don't have to randomly click around to find something potential interesting. There should be a more visible screenshot along with some information about the game, like a synopsis of the story and basic game play.
There seems to be enough space in the design to allow for a larger screenshot and more text. Additionally, I think the "random screenshots" should be a bit larger and offer the synopsis when you mouse over them. I don't know how difficult those changed would be to make, but I think a few really simple ideas like that would make games more accessible and as a result encourage people to try new things without having to politely ask them to with a special forum event.
The goal of the site is to make games, make better games, and also play them. Everything else is a sideline feature.
post=100735
First of all, you overestimate just how emotionally invested WIP is. There were very serious discussions about the possibility of removing the impertinent forums for a long time. You're giving yourself too much credit.
All the better if he wasn't but to me he came off as a bit of an asshole. Maybe thats the way you talk but to me you didn't sound like you seriously wanted to discuss anything. I don't believe that real discussions need any put downs as they don't add anything to the discussion. I try not to be dick even when I get frustrated with people and I expect others to do the same. Also, when I said he was too emotionally invested I was talking about the advertisement argument, not the the argument whether we should keep those forums or not.
post=100543
I kinda get what arcan is saying. Without sigs and forum topics for games, people who bypass the main site are never exposed to any advertising for people's projects (except for, like, the screenshot topic). And, yes, this is partially due to laziness and disinterest, but people who like to play games (but aren't actively seeking them out) have a much smaller chance of stumbling upon something they might like.
I don't know how big of a difference it makes, but it is an accurate observation.
This is the main point I keep trying to promote but none of you seem to get it. Some people don't usually like playing games so you sometimes have to point it out to them that there are good ones out there otherwise they might not do so on their own. Also, stop saying that I am lazy, because by "some people" I am not referring to myself, I am referring to anyone that might not have read this thread. They don't realize that this is a bad mentality to have but I did before I even posted that first time.
post=100750
The goal of the site is to make games, make better games, and also play them. Everything else is a sideline feature.
This makes sense, its your site you should do what you want. But my point is that some members don't usually play or make games and if you remove the extra forums you might lose some people. I do agree to some extent that those extra forums are bad. Too many of those and we might end up like GW, which is less focused on games and more about stupid discussions. But I feel like the the amount of these forums we have right now is at a good level.
I understand the "stumbling upon" point you were making. That's a tough thing to worry about, because there's no good way to do it. Forum signatures are not an option anymore, as I feel the forum has benefited way more from their absence. A site goal is to move as much away from the forum as possible.
I know what you are saying about losing members. As SFL, there have been discussions about removing the forums on different scales. I also feel the forum balance is mostly okay at the moment. I would probably like if the Introduction forum was gone and merged into General.
I know what you are saying about losing members. As SFL, there have been discussions about removing the forums on different scales. I also feel the forum balance is mostly okay at the moment. I would probably like if the Introduction forum was gone and merged into General.
Kaempfer
1932
I know you just said that the idea is to get away from the forum as a primary element in game promotion, but the fact is that it exists and is used by many members regularly. Why not have some sort of official system for handling signatures? People obviously will make terrible signatures if given the chance, but you could have a proper little box (perhaps across from the Quote button which is all alone for everyone but you own posts) with little buttons that take you to, oh, the game page of a specific game? They are similar in concept to those ubiquitous icons you find that generally have the face of a character and then the name of the game (or "I am a hero" in a certain Kentona's case) only with a specific role on the forum and RMN branding, to boot.
At the very least, other forum members would have ready access to their peers gamepages. "I'm talking to this guy and he's not a douche. Let's see what his game is all about...".
At the very least, other forum members would have ready access to their peers gamepages. "I'm talking to this guy and he's not a douche. Let's see what his game is all about...".
Darken
3952
post=100806
At the very least, other forum members would have ready access to their peers gamepages. "I'm talking to this guy and he's not a douche. Let's see what his game is all about...".
You can click on the member's name.
Kaempfer
1932
post=100812post=100806You can click on the member's name.
At the very least, other forum members would have ready access to their peers gamepages. "I'm talking to this guy and he's not a douche. Let's see what his game is all about...".
That is a good point I forgot how easy it was! HOWEVER my idea was more along the lines of generating interest in a certain game by having controlled little areas where some snippet could be shown off, similar to the novel of a cover (which is how I judge all books) to generate interest. Sort of to a) avoid rockman and b) to draw immediate attention to something rather than leave it up to the potential player. Sort of like an impulse buy, but... for free.
I know it's not hard at all to view games, but I am thinking having more people reminded to try things out is a good thing, no?
AznChipmunk
4613
someone click on my name go go go
Seriously though, I wouldn't mind dumping moronic and etc. I would like to keep Art, though (although, game-related could actually be merged into a game design subforum or something). But to me, it's gamepages and the game development stuff that's core and more important.
The main page could be changed somewhat, but I do like the idea of a featured game. Perhaps what could be done is something like Kongregate where there are multiple featured games. Then we can have a small section for current games, popular games perhaps, and random games (random screenshots.) And then the varying articles/review somewhere around there too.
edit: or perhaps instead of popular games, it could be most recently updated games.
edit:
Seriously though, I wouldn't mind dumping moronic and etc. I would like to keep Art, though (although, game-related could actually be merged into a game design subforum or something). But to me, it's gamepages and the game development stuff that's core and more important.
The main page could be changed somewhat, but I do like the idea of a featured game. Perhaps what could be done is something like Kongregate where there are multiple featured games. Then we can have a small section for current games, popular games perhaps, and random games (random screenshots.) And then the varying articles/review somewhere around there too.
edit: or perhaps instead of popular games, it could be most recently updated games.
edit:
SHIT ON THE VILLA
SHIT ON THE VILLA TONIGHT
SHIT ON THE VILLA
BECAUSE THE VILLA ARE SHITE
post=100825
edit:SHIT ON THE VILLA
SHIT ON THE VILLA TONIGHT
SHIT ON THE VILLA
BECAUSE THE VILLA ARE SHITE
for posperity
