PARTICIPATION IN THE GAME MAKING COMMUNITY

Kentona is correct. The longer you hang around any community, the more jaded and derisive you tend to get. There's exceptions to this, but generally speaking most of us don't have the time or willpower to play through a 'bad game'. Even then, what we consider a bad game others may love.

Laxius Power or Aveyond, anyone?

The people that play those are not community insiders. They don't know that our community considers them mediocre for the most part. They also don't care.

It's not like we can change this attitude or lower standards artificially. We also can't just block out every person's first effort. Making a newbie-friendly place is not a bad idea - but even then I think you will find people will become elitist assholes after awhile; everyone gets tired of the same old junk.

Whatever solution exists for this probably won't be an easy one. But we should at least try. I think Kentona is on the right track.

Get a few good friends you can talk to about your projects, share ideas and screenshots and thoughts.

There is nothing more fun than talking one-on-one with a fellow developer on thoughts and ideas, showing off updates and demos, etc. As soon as the one person I used to talk about development regularly switched modes I've been a lot less interested in development in general (and I've slowed way down on development...)

I felt that "I play yours, you play mine" was bad because it's a one shot - you're playing theirs because it'll get them to play yours, not because you want to give some honest feedback to a friend and vice versa. Otherwise it's ideal to get feedback without giving too much effort in return.

You want to fix it? Mentor a newbie with your amazing knowledge.

Oh wait, e-effort...

Easier to deride and tell them they suck and will never be good and to try again after they've improved in some magical land that is not here and doesn't include me nowgoaway.

God, I want to have the talent to have started great at game making and never needed feedback and help, especially when I'm just getting started and have no one else to show/run my stuff by!

sounds like you are talking out of experience eh Anaryu poor lad

I prefer to lead by example over direct teaching or mentoring. I'm not a very good teacher.

post=99597
Unless makerscore can be cashed in for money and or porn prizes, I don't see that having an impact at all.

This is the second time this has been mentioned, so: In a world where money/prizes are made through makerscore/reviewing/etc, the ones to get the money/prizes will often be the ones who best understand how to manipulate the system.

Additionally, this will skew reviewing/making games/etc in whatever is most rewarded, and thus make people think of other games as 'inefficient' to some degree. Not to mention the amount of drama that will probably ensue, as the community becomes more competitive, argues over which tactics in the metagame are acceptable, etc.

I'd advise against it.

Actually it's surprisingly hard to make and friends when your opening questions and requests for help are mostly derailed with comments regarding how hopeless you and your project are.

I wasn't aware it was my responsibility to act as a local mentor to random people I've never met, nor do I care to converse with. If I see a game that has a few good ideas / has potential; I'll chime in. If not; try again.

So as a community member it's not your job to help people who aren't up to your standard before posting a game?

I guess it's not our responsibility to play or grant feedback on your game either unless it had enough of an eye catcher.

Oh wait, that's exactly how it is now and exactly what this thread was asking for solutions to.

Helping people with a mentoring system (explaining their mistakes and trying their stuff in a one-on-one type of situation) was a suggested solution. If the new developers who just entered this big bad world of development had some help or a community tolerant of first tries maybe they would get better.

We've all forgotten that we didn't start our careers with something as supposedly amazing as Kinetic Cipher. And if you did, well, I guess it's understandable that you can't relate to the people who have to learn those skills by trying and getting help (feedback from friends, trial and error, emulating other people in a welcoming community.)

Most of us got that help from our friends or small communities when we first started, these new people could use the same, but we ignore or bash (if they're too vocal with their silly requests for feedback on their amateurish project) instead.

I'm trying my hardest to make sense of the second half of this statement; but I may as well just give up on that. As far as people getting their feelings hurt, it happens astonishingly little around here; so I'm not sure where you're getting the whole derisiveness thing from.

That little blurb that was so tough to understand was basically meant to emulate this statement:
"If I see a game that has a few good ideas / has potential; I'll chime in. If not; try again."

In other words our community has a standard you need to meet, if you're not there you aren't welcome here, you are to learn elsewhere and not bother us in the intern. If you get good enough to maybe be welcome among us, then come back and try again. (This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but we need to decide IF that is the type of community we are, if so, then a lot of this thread is off topic.)

post=99603
Actually it's surprisingly hard to make any friends when your opening questions and requests for help are mostly derailed with comments regarding how hopeless you and your project are.

Really, enough with the hyperbolic crap already. A quick glance around here and you'll notice that if anything people are too merciful and considerate of people's feelings. With that said, it is exceedingly rare for new people to even come here and ask for help in their thread. Instead of hanging around they usually just post their game and proceed to wonder why nobody is downloading their masterpiece "Mushroom Kingdom Hearts"

Once again, you have failed to provide a reason that would suggest that people who aren't great at making games could fit in and have friends around here that could help them. I'm pretty sure J-man isn't a widely hated outcast, yet his games aren't exactly highly regarded around here. Yeaster isn't the most popular author either and he isn't widely hated either. Your claims that new members are unjustly antagonized for their work are simply not true.

When we start replying to novice posts with "Get out of here with this faggotry." than you're free to say that.

So as a community member it's not your job to help people who aren't up to your standard before posting a game?

No, it isn't. Unless I'm feeling generous and have a sudden need to waste my time boring myself. Some guy spent 3 hours messing around in RPG maker, hit the submit button and now I MUST go ahead and give this guy advice? The average person will give advice to a new game should they feel so inclined and thats that. Maybe people would be more motivated if they, say know the guy's been posting around for awhile. I'm pretty sure this is nothing new or uncommon.

Helping people with a mentoring system (explaining their mistakes and trying their stuff in a one-on-one type of situation) was a suggested solution. If the new developers who just entered this big bad world of development had some help or a community tolerant of first tries maybe they would get better.

Make - friends. If you can't make friends, read; enlighten yourself. If you can't do that - than you "Wahhh nobody plays my games" is the least of your problems.

We've all forgotten that we didn't start our careers with something as supposedly amazing as Kinetic Cipher. And if you did, well, I guess it's understandable that you can't relate to the people who have to learn those skills by trying and getting help (feedback from friends, trial and error, emulating other people in a welcoming community.)

Again you run your mouth whilst making very little sense. Kinetic Cipher was cited as an example simply because it was a quality game that was overlooked from the developer who (at the time) had a temperament that made me look like a saint.

Now, if you're suggesting that the community I grew in back in the day is very much different from the community hanging around now, you're mistaken. Infact, I wish it was how it is now because I would have learned my harsh lessons a lot quicker.

Back when I was new, I posted mainly in a place called Gormash.net, it was a haven of newbies sharing crappy games and there; I thought I was pretty good. After awhile I released a game called "Valikorlia" and was handed down a harsh review and a wakeup call. From that day I worked and continue to work to improve on all of my weakest areas. The review didn't MENTOR me, he didn't coddle me or give me undeserved praise. He told me how it is and didn't pull his punches. That's what more people should be doing here.

Note : I didn't come in to an established community with 2 posts, a rubbish game and cry "NOBODY PLAY THIS PLACE SUCKS". I actually hung around the community long enough and actually requested a review.

Most of us got that help from our friends or small communities when we first started, these new people could use the same, but we ignore or bash (if they're too vocal with their silly requests for feedback on their amateurish project) instead.

As I had already noted, the smaller communities and the coddling is what held me back. While I will concede that not everyone responds the same to criticism, it is a necessary function that can be solved by making friends. Again, I will reiterate that stating that you need to be a good author to make friends is a an absurd insinuation.