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SIDE QUESTS: WHY?
Posts
Feldschlacht IV
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Close1) Don't ever equate any video game (RPGMAKER?!) to sex every again
2) It ain't all about crossing the finish line
1) RPG Maker has everything to do with sex. Haven't you heard?
2) If you intend to finish a race, you had better damn follow through. A little 'sprint' in a bathroom or a quick 'jog' in the back of an empty movie theater are acceptable races to save the finish line for later but you'd damn well better be ready to go the distance if you're in a bedroom marathon.
In any scenario, I like the FF6 example posted above. However, that's a little wonky because the latter half of the game is pretty much sidequests that reward you with another playable character (which is almost a necessity because good luck beating the game with just Setzer, Celes, and Edgar (its entirely possible though)) rather than something that truly 'on the side'. However, the truly optional stuff with Shadow, the Figaro twins, Strago, Cyan's Nightmare, etc are great examples because it rewards you with both exposition, character development, and strong as shit equipment.
To toss in a crumb in the topic before I leave again (i'm hungry), consider for a minute the way Wild Arms did sidequests. While I'm still pretty irked by the constant puzzles, there WERE a lot of sidequests that went ones you do throughout the game to 100 level power dungeons at the very end.
See, that's one of the ways where I think that FF6 transcends mere "sidequests." Half of the entire game is based on the non-linear part, and it's made to work and show a transition between a world in peril and a world post-peril. FF6 rules. Oblivion has... towns. And villages. There are people? There's nothing to show.
RedNeptune
122
Sometimes I throw in side-quest to throw in some back story to a Character / Item / Dungeon / Boss, but I think most of the time side-quests are just to make the game seem longer than it is or should be.
Sam
2200
I quite like when a character's backstory or character development is available only through a side quest. In a lot of RPGs there are characters, that, I'm sorry, I just can not seem to care about. Barrett, for example. I don't care how the hell he got a gun for an arm, or where Marlene came from, I just want him to point at things and shoot. Unfortunately, in FFVII I couldn't give two shits about Cloud either. Tifa seemed cool though.
To be forced to play through a section you don't care about, as a character you really do not want to be is, to find out something you really do not give a crap about, is painful. Especially if it's just randomly dropped in.
Dan: OK, let's get the Stellar Crystal so we can open the doors to the caves!
Guy: You know, I had a brother. Yeah, we used to play the by rock pools, and he'd always say "You're such a dummy!" I never beat him at anything...
Dan: That's great Guy but we're supposed to be saving the world right now.
Guy: Then one day-
Dan: Kinda need to get that crystal?
Guy: We went further out than we usually did.
Dan: OK, you're not in group, stop trying to have a breakthrough.
Guy: I'm gonna cue a flashback.
*Thirty minutes later*
Dan: Yep, I am bored to fucking tears. I gained nothing from that. What were we even doing again?
To be forced to play through a section you don't care about, as a character you really do not want to be is, to find out something you really do not give a crap about, is painful. Especially if it's just randomly dropped in.
Dan: OK, let's get the Stellar Crystal so we can open the doors to the caves!
Guy: You know, I had a brother. Yeah, we used to play the by rock pools, and he'd always say "You're such a dummy!" I never beat him at anything...
Dan: That's great Guy but we're supposed to be saving the world right now.
Guy: Then one day-
Dan: Kinda need to get that crystal?
Guy: We went further out than we usually did.
Dan: OK, you're not in group, stop trying to have a breakthrough.
Guy: I'm gonna cue a flashback.
*Thirty minutes later*
Dan: Yep, I am bored to fucking tears. I gained nothing from that. What were we even doing again?
^^ side quests as cool, IF they have nice rewards ^^
Is like those fps games that, if you find the right number of secret stuff in the map you get a nice reward at the end... (unlock a new weapon or a multiplayer map stuff like that)
A bad side quest:
Quest guy: For this quest you have climb the everest, and kill the giant dragon with nothing but a picolo (musical instrument) and a picture of John Travolta, chop its tail and bring me, in a trolley covered in fire drive by Nicholas Cage so I can cure the vilage...
Hero: yep? And whats in it for me?
Quest guy: .....mmm.... 500 G$
Hero: Say what?!
Is like those fps games that, if you find the right number of secret stuff in the map you get a nice reward at the end... (unlock a new weapon or a multiplayer map stuff like that)
A bad side quest:
Quest guy: For this quest you have climb the everest, and kill the giant dragon with nothing but a picolo (musical instrument) and a picture of John Travolta, chop its tail and bring me, in a trolley covered in fire drive by Nicholas Cage so I can cure the vilage...
Hero: yep? And whats in it for me?
Quest guy: .....mmm.... 500 G$
Hero: Say what?!
WolfCoder
3554
Whether or not puzzles are horrible / side quests are needed and all depends on what game you are making.
"If the object of your game is to kill and kill fast, don't bog down the player with boring cumbersome puzzles"
said an actual game designer (from a typical big game company), it's pretty much valid for RPGs even though he usually designed FPSs.
I only give you side quests if I have a fun idea for you to do that wouldn't feel right in the main game line. However, challenges happen only at the flick of the difficulty settings- if you want a harder game it's going to be the same main story but merciless. And my idea of harder is double damage with turbo timer speed on with upgraded enemies, difficulty mod style.
"If the object of your game is to kill and kill fast, don't bog down the player with boring cumbersome puzzles"
said an actual game designer (from a typical big game company), it's pretty much valid for RPGs even though he usually designed FPSs.
I only give you side quests if I have a fun idea for you to do that wouldn't feel right in the main game line. However, challenges happen only at the flick of the difficulty settings- if you want a harder game it's going to be the same main story but merciless. And my idea of harder is double damage with turbo timer speed on with upgraded enemies, difficulty mod style.
post=108382
I'd like to add something to this topic, related in a way. Side-quests are by definition outside of the main game and can be undertaken or completely forgotten. Some might include a really tough puzzle in a side-quest for this reason: if the player gets frustrated, they can simply abandon the side-quest. What do you think of puzzles that have to be completed for game progression?
Zelda is a perfect example. While many of the puzzles had nothing to do with the slash/magic/potions that made up the battle system, the developers introduced puzzles that were barriers to progression. Does this add to the game flavor or does it ask too much of the player?
The Legend of Zelda games always had some way, by screwed up delivery side quest, optional dungeon or mini game you could max out everything, lower the costs in all the shops, and one hit kill anything that isn't Ganondorf. Hence my love of sidequests.
Darken
3952
You could actually argue that side quests do not contribute to non-linearity at all, maybe create a thick smoke hiding that fact, but still barely change the end result of the game.
edit: oh wait I mis-read his post whatever
edit: oh wait I mis-read his post whatever
WolfCoder
3554
I hate that, and there's a real-world example of it from Game Arts. I liked the gameplay of Grandia, but near the end they have some dungeons thrown in. It even announces in a message box "THIS IS A SIDE QUEST!! NOT PART OF THE STORY!" like we couldn't figure that out for ourselves. They should have had optional places throughout the entire game or not, it just looks tacky when you have a dungeon that actually announces itself as optional.
(unrelated to the side quest rant)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze12q0VwW5k&feature=related
god that game was so cheezy and awesome at the same time.
(unrelated to the side quest rant)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze12q0VwW5k&feature=related
god that game was so cheezy and awesome at the same time.
So I saw the topic title, thought it said "Slime Quests," and got really excited. Thanks for failing to meet my expectations.
Kaempfer
1932
Thanks for already having read through this topic at least once and posting in it and still not being able to read the title, Craze.
"WAIT I THOUGHT WE WERE TALKING SLIME QUESTS HERE"
"WAIT I THOUGHT WE WERE TALKING SLIME QUESTS HERE"
Did anyone mention FFVII yet? I'm replaying it (for the 100th time) and it still amazes me how there's so much to do all the time. Seriously the game has side stuff out the ass.
post=109304post=108452This was my reasoning in Diablocide. People were like TRAPS SUCK AND OTHERWISE YOU WALK. Now each tier of play has a little logic puzzle and the same people were freaking out because suddenly they had to think outside of battle. =P
I love puzzles. Puzzles are great. If you are worried about a puzzle being too hard/too boring for the player to figure out, then have an alternate route for them. I strongly suggest you stay away from "timing" puzzles and focus on logic puzzles, since RM* is better suited to them. Pretty much every timing puzzle I have played has been awful, whereas even the most boring of logic puzzle (like... push some rocks) is a welcome little treat.
K-man (wait wouldn't that be Karsu?): This is a Slime Quest because the rebattle sprite in Diablocide is a slime.
Kaempfer
1932
I had an idea for a game once called Slime Quest, actually. It was pretty well fleshed out. We should make it some time. We can even use RMVX!
