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CloseI'm mostly in charge of the maps of Ill Will, aside the base structures of some of the dungeons, but I am still learning VX mapping too, and I'm not considering my maps particularly good. Even the one you posted seems heaps better, so you're not really doing that bad yourself, either!
Edit: Oh, top of the page. I guess I'll post a screen of the latest bit I've been working on. A Purgatorio dungeon - layout by Chaos - rest of the design by me:
ps. Again, for now don't mind the monster sprites.
edit 2: crap, I noticed a mapping error with one of the bridges.
Edit: Oh, top of the page. I guess I'll post a screen of the latest bit I've been working on. A Purgatorio dungeon - layout by Chaos - rest of the design by me:
ps. Again, for now don't mind the monster sprites.
edit 2: crap, I noticed a mapping error with one of the bridges.
post=1178881) it is ~50% placeholder (there is a clue in the term work in progress)
@geodude: Uh, in that sky gate bridge example you posted the vertical beams only extend about 5% of the bridge length, where they are then replaced by standard diagonal trusses which like 1000% of bridges are constructed of. WHY ARE YOU SO AGAINST REASON?
edit: this is what you're in for if you continue along the path you've chosen:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6f/Wootton_bridge.jpg
2) welcome to corrupt industrial metropolis where no one cares as long as their pockets are being filled
3) why do you care so much anyway you loser
4) loser
StormriderAngel
100
@Rei:
Holy craparoni and cheese! I'm not used to seeing maps that big! (I tend to work on a pretty small scale).
There's a little part in the middle near the bridge where the lighting is cut off. Maybe that's due the the cropping? And I've been wondering, the way the water looks...is that the tile or an overlay(My money is on overlay)?
Yup, top right corner, the darkness isn't full erased, I did that quite a bit when mapping Azula's Cavern so it's easy for me to spot. Other than that I'm really digging the atmosphere of your caverns. Glowing plants FTW!
Were kinda mapping representatives for VX so we can't afford to look bad XD
Holy craparoni and cheese! I'm not used to seeing maps that big! (I tend to work on a pretty small scale).
There's a little part in the middle near the bridge where the lighting is cut off. Maybe that's due the the cropping? And I've been wondering, the way the water looks...is that the tile or an overlay(My money is on overlay)?
Yup, top right corner, the darkness isn't full erased, I did that quite a bit when mapping Azula's Cavern so it's easy for me to spot. Other than that I'm really digging the atmosphere of your caverns. Glowing plants FTW!
Were kinda mapping representatives for VX so we can't afford to look bad XD
Radnen
1806
@Rei: Ghaa! That map has too much green. It looks too confusing for me. The contrast is playing with my eyes.
I hate how my ultra sharp monitor kills many games here for creating eye-bleeding contrast. :(
I hate how my ultra sharp monitor kills many games here for creating eye-bleeding contrast. :(
nickad
261
Rei, I actually quite like the effect you have going on there. It really does convey a swamp-like, grimy and dark atmosphere. The only problem I have are those damned cave walls with the SQUARE bottom and CURVED top >:(.
post=117997
@Rei:
Holy craparoni and cheese! I'm not used to seeing maps that big! (I tend to work on a pretty small scale).
There's a little part in the middle near the bridge where the lighting is cut off. Maybe that's due the the cropping? And I've been wondering, the way the water looks...is that the tile or an overlay(My money is on overlay)?
Yup, top right corner, the darkness isn't full erased, I did that quite a bit when mapping Azula's Cavern so it's easy for me to spot. Other than that I'm really digging the atmosphere of your caverns. Glowing plants FTW!
Were kinda mapping representatives for VX so we can't afford to look bad XD
You're the guy that uses XP trees that don't match the VX tiles and tilevomits flowers everywhere, right? Hm.
EDIT: No, I know I'm not the best mapper. I'm jus' saying (and punching cockiness in the mouth).
StormriderAngel
100
post=118019post=117997You're the guy that uses XP trees that don't match the VX tiles and tilevomits flowers everywhere, right? Hm.
@Rei:
Holy craparoni and cheese! I'm not used to seeing maps that big! (I tend to work on a pretty small scale).
There's a little part in the middle near the bridge where the lighting is cut off. Maybe that's due the the cropping? And I've been wondering, the way the water looks...is that the tile or an overlay(My money is on overlay)?
Yup, top right corner, the darkness isn't full erased, I did that quite a bit when mapping Azula's Cavern so it's easy for me to spot. Other than that I'm really digging the atmosphere of your caverns. Glowing plants FTW!
Were kinda mapping representatives for VX so we can't afford to look bad XD
EDIT: No, I know I'm not the best mapper. I'm jus' saying (and punching cockiness in the mouth).
No I guess you're not the best mapper. I always thought of you and you work as a gameplay representation of VX. Like when someone thinks of the system or says that RMVX sucks and so do all the games made with it, you're kind of the example people go to where they know they'll find quality.
I'm sorry to hear that you think they're mismatched vomit...I was trying to put a method to the madness that is my game maps. At the very least it's pretty sure it's functional and won't get in the way of gameplay, which is where I(at least try) to apply some of the things I learned from your work =_=.
Hm, okay, I guess I should explain my mindlingo.
"Tilevomit" isn't ugly tiles in and of themselves, it's poor organization. When I see your maps, I see stuff strewn everywhere - there are no open spaces. Open spaces make scenes seem less busy and easier to look at. It also looks silly when every 32 pixels there is yet another flower, right on target.
Seriously, though, edit those tree borders. Your buildings and other non-natural things are good, but you need to work on not smothering the grass with TileB.
"Tilevomit" isn't ugly tiles in and of themselves, it's poor organization. When I see your maps, I see stuff strewn everywhere - there are no open spaces. Open spaces make scenes seem less busy and easier to look at. It also looks silly when every 32 pixels there is yet another flower, right on target.
Seriously, though, edit those tree borders. Your buildings and other non-natural things are good, but you need to work on not smothering the grass with TileB.
StormriderAngel
100
post=118024
Hm, okay I guess I should explain my mindlingo.
"Tilevomit" isn't ugly tiles in and of themselves, it's poor organization. When I see your maps, I see stuff strewn everywhere - there are no open spaces. Open spaces make scenes seem less busy and easier to look at. It also looks silly when every 32 pixels there is yet another flower, right on target.
Seriously, though, edit those tree borders. Your buildings and other non-natural things are good, but you need to work on not smothering the grass with TileB.
Yeah I think you're right. I don't think its so bad in the earlier forest maps, but I really went overboard when doing Kaska Valley. I remember you saying that a big reason you work with partner because they can tell you to enough is enough and stop being such a damn perfectionist, right? I should probably look in to getting some help soon, not just for that reason but a bunch others as well.
Craze: It's more of a matter of personal preference, probably, rather than what's "right" or "wrong" way to design the maps. While simplicity can work very well in game design, I can't say Stormrider's maps would look bad either.
I'd just consider them two separate ways to design. Either a sort of a mixed bag of graphics, or well sustained selection of graphics. Which is easier way to work with, depends on people. I find it personally harder to decide what leave out, rather than what to include.
I'd just consider them two separate ways to design. Either a sort of a mixed bag of graphics, or well sustained selection of graphics. Which is easier way to work with, depends on people. I find it personally harder to decide what leave out, rather than what to include.
Darken
3952
I wouldn't say that it's complete preference. In my idea of mapping, wherever the player goes, there should be a consistent tile 'path' that isn't completely varied every 3 tiles(lol). Basically, keep all the flowers and stuff in where the player DOESN'T go, so it's more obvious on where to go. Does this seem like common sense?
It's not really about making things look clean, but rather making the player's goal obvious.
It's not really about making things look clean, but rather making the player's goal obvious.
post=118031
I wouldn't say that it's complete preference. In my idea of mapping, wherever the player goes, there should be a consistent tile 'path' that isn't completely varied every 3 tiles(lol). Basically, keep all the flowers and stuff in where the player DOESN'T go, so it's more obvious on where to go. Does this seem like common sense?
It's not really about making things look clean, but rather making the player's goal obvious.
This actually isn't a problem in SRA's maps. My beef (besides those TREES) is that there is no open space outside of the path. It looks weird just normally, but especially because everything is a perfect 32 pixels apart.
Kaempfer
1932
Craze just really hates tilevomit. I don't know why. I always go overboard with it myself, but end up scaling it back to a more appropriate level. I consider it another step; filling the map up with objects and then removing the ones I don't want. It's sort of a reversed way of mapping.
I agree with him about Rei-'s map being far too linear, though. I have no problem with linearity, but in this case there is literally one tile on which the player can walk at all times (with a handful of other one-tile paths the the player can choose that lead to the same point). There is nothing wrong with having a map force you from point A to point B, but if you are only going to have one tile the player can stand on you may as well remove gameplay completely; everybody who plays it is going to do the exact same thing.
I find Ascendance actually has the opposite problem as this, with some areas having too many tiles to step into and sometimes losing direction. My advice would be to take inspiration from your own work and find a balance in the middle.
Also geodude I thought we were having a discussion about railroad bridges but apparently no discussion is allowed around here :O
edit: sgt. rockman: discussion police
I agree with him about Rei-'s map being far too linear, though. I have no problem with linearity, but in this case there is literally one tile on which the player can walk at all times (with a handful of other one-tile paths the the player can choose that lead to the same point). There is nothing wrong with having a map force you from point A to point B, but if you are only going to have one tile the player can stand on you may as well remove gameplay completely; everybody who plays it is going to do the exact same thing.
I find Ascendance actually has the opposite problem as this, with some areas having too many tiles to step into and sometimes losing direction. My advice would be to take inspiration from your own work and find a balance in the middle.
Also geodude I thought we were having a discussion about railroad bridges but apparently no discussion is allowed around here :O
edit: sgt. rockman: discussion police
S. F. LaValle
1069
I'm going to take a extreme stance on Rei's map and say, that's exemplary RTP VX mapping. Seriously. VX RTP doesn't lend itself well to open spaces because it's so boxy. That, combined with RTP chibi sprites, seem to suggest that tightly-mapped areas work better. I realized this after witnessing a lot of VX screenshots, then seeing a few that really blew me away. This map here falls in line with them.
It's also important to point out that this map doesn't force you to go one way. Most often there's a 1-tile walking area, true, but in any given 544x416 area of this map, you'll see multiple directions that you can go. Not all of them are the right way, and some dead-end, but that's not a design flaw. Areas like this are meant to be short, and if you go the wrong way, whoops, you probably lost a couple seconds of walking, no big deal. On top of that, there appear to be no random encounters.
Also take into account atmosphere. It's obviously a very dank, cavern-y or perhaps even bog-y location. It's understandable that there is little room to move around, and what precious land there is is connected by many bridges.
I can't really find anything negative to say. Great job, Rei, that's how it's done. Keeping maps a little busy but still functional helps to draw attention to the RTP's boxy and unnatural feel.
It's also important to point out that this map doesn't force you to go one way. Most often there's a 1-tile walking area, true, but in any given 544x416 area of this map, you'll see multiple directions that you can go. Not all of them are the right way, and some dead-end, but that's not a design flaw. Areas like this are meant to be short, and if you go the wrong way, whoops, you probably lost a couple seconds of walking, no big deal. On top of that, there appear to be no random encounters.
Also take into account atmosphere. It's obviously a very dank, cavern-y or perhaps even bog-y location. It's understandable that there is little room to move around, and what precious land there is is connected by many bridges.
I can't really find anything negative to say. Great job, Rei, that's how it's done. Keeping maps a little busy but still functional helps to draw attention to the RTP's boxy and unnatural feel.
Most of the maps in our VX project are compromises, at least from my part. By that I mean, that with given time limit and resources, as well as the over all style for the environments, most optimal design style was uhm, somewhat narrow areas, because of the size limitation for the maps - which is result of decision of having overlays.
See, I was like "oh yeah, let's have overlays", which are less of work if the maps are small, but then I realized that lot of our minimum size default maps were connected to lots of other maps. (Say, 5 for example.) And when I had to connect all those entrances and even add some stuff to the map to make it pretty, the result was the path ways being very narrow.
What comes to the dungeon areas, I think chaos designed the paths narrow, so that you'd need to swap between them, etc, to dodge the monsters and possibly fall the pits, for special battles.
I'm just saying this, because I'm not entirely happy about having narrow paths, either. I'd rather have areas that have more space to move around. I can just hope the maps are satisfying enough in this project. It's my first VX game anyway, so yeah...
Anyway, post more screens.
See, I was like "oh yeah, let's have overlays", which are less of work if the maps are small, but then I realized that lot of our minimum size default maps were connected to lots of other maps. (Say, 5 for example.) And when I had to connect all those entrances and even add some stuff to the map to make it pretty, the result was the path ways being very narrow.
What comes to the dungeon areas, I think chaos designed the paths narrow, so that you'd need to swap between them, etc, to dodge the monsters and possibly fall the pits, for special battles.
I'm just saying this, because I'm not entirely happy about having narrow paths, either. I'd rather have areas that have more space to move around. I can just hope the maps are satisfying enough in this project. It's my first VX game anyway, so yeah...
Anyway, post more screens.
post=118062
What comes to the dungeon areas, I think chaos designed the paths narrow, so that you'd need to swap between them, etc, to dodge the monsters and possibly fall the pits, for special battles.
Actually, it's just a mechanism for dodging enemies. Areas with branches and loops will have narrower paths, to make it easier to manipulate enemies into following you around the loop. Other areas have wider paths so that you can wait for an enemy to pull up next to you and then run while it turns.
And yes, I tried to make it as easy as possible to fall into a pit. :)
WolfCoder
3554
post=117995
I'm mostly in charge of the maps of Ill Will, aside the base structures of some of the dungeons, but I am still learning VX mapping too, and I'm not considering my maps particularly good. Even the one you posted seems heaps better, so you're not really doing that bad yourself, either!
Edit: Oh, top of the page. I guess I'll post a screen of the latest bit I've been working on. A Purgatorio dungeon - layout by Chaos - rest of the design by me:
ps. Again, for now don't mind the monster sprites.
edit 2: crap, I noticed a mapping error with one of the bridges.
Too... Many... Green... Flare lights... It looks like there's poison gas all over the place and the grass is bioluminescent.
The lights need to be brighter so that the important (or the most obvious) parts of the map stand out much more from the darker surroundings. You should actually make the dark parts a bit darker to increase the overall contrast. Either way, the lights in the map do not reach the maximum brightness of your monitor so they seem more like fog or gas.
However, there's a good smooth shade between the colors. Most RPG screens are harsh and extremely contrasted and overly fullbright. You've got the atmosphere and level design down right- that is if claustrophobic was the idea. If those little slightly lit green parts over the water are fog or something, they should be animated. If you used an extra layer and just made it transparent, you might look into the swap chips/tiles command if it still has it to do the fog animation (if you haven't already done that).
