THE FINAL FANTASY XIII TOPIC

I'm just wondering what king of person walks into a room full of Final Fantasy fans and starts a fight by saying FFXIII sucks.

I don't care about this at all but it's interesting to see the shift between ff12 which was almost open and exploration-heavy to a fault (in that i completely forgot and stopped caring about the storyline in favor of just running around and doing sidequest things) and this which looks like it goes in the absolute opposite direction by just giving you a path to walk down while throwing cutscenes at you every ten minutes. I honestly don't really play games at all anymore and don't have any of the consoles in any case but I'm sorta interested if they'll ever work out some kind of compromise between the two or just keep going further and further down the different respective paths with each release.

I like the names though. snow orphan cocoon lightning hope. i mean

Orphan (オーファン, Ōfan?): A wheel-like, sun-elemental fal'Cie who is the power source of Cocoon. Orphan's defeat is the Focus of Lightning's group. Orphan wanted Fang to transform into Ragnarok, so that at the destruction of himself and Cocoon, the gods would return to this world.

ahahahaha this could be such a cool series if it wasn't so absolutely humourless :(

SE reveals the real boxart for ff13!

Orphan (オーファン, Ōfan?): A wheel-like, sun-elemental fal'Cie who is the power source of Cocoon. Orphan's defeat is the Focus of Lightning's group. Orphan wanted Fang to transform into Ragnarok, so that at the destruction of himself and Cocoon, the gods would return to this world.

I just had an aneurysm. Thanks.

post=123479

Orphan (オーファン, Ōfan?): A wheel-like, sun-elemental fal'Cie who is the power source of Cocoon. Orphan's defeat is the Focus of Lightning's group. Orphan wanted Fang to transform into Ragnarok, so that at the destruction of himself and Cocoon, the gods would return to this world.

I just had an aneurysm. Thanks.

Nice now I don't have to have the inane argument I was planning on hurling at you!

Just so we're clear I agree that critics are fairly awful, but I think I take that in a more general sense where it makes me ignore their opinion past "general consensus: worth buying or awful"? I will give you an example of why I ignore critics (good and bad):

Before I bought Red Alert 3 (it was cheap) I read a few reviews. Most pointed out things I was a little worried about, but I was mostly just checking to see if it was grossly unbalanced like C&C3 was (which I didn't enjoy). Despite reading about lots of things I thought would be issues for me, I bought it anyways (it was cheap!) and have been playing it... a lot, ever since. The things the critics pointed out I absolutely notice (units being so fragile they die between the game telling you they are under attack and you double clicking their hotgroup number) and certainly don't enjoy, but overall I have such a good time with the game that I learn to tolerate those things. They are balancing issues, as well, but you adapt as you play, if you like something.

So, to sum up: The critics were absolutely right in their negatives, but I didn't let them put me off and I've had lots of fun ever since. A good game is a game that you can get frustrated with once and awhile but still have lots of fun with, I think. If you're not getting frustrated then the game is either a) perfect (that's great! You've found a perfect game!) or b) you're not really in to it. If you're not really in to it, you probably don't care about it one way or the other and aren't really enjoying it.

I'm going to buy FFXIII. I don't think it's going to be AMAZINGLY GREAT but I do think I'm going to enjoy it and get my money's worth out of it, and if I have lots of fun then I am not going to worry about how much MORE fun I could have had if it had only been less linear, less derivative, less et cetera et cetera. It makes more sense to me to get enjoyment out of games where you can and not worry if there are things in it you probably don't like. If you pick out the things you don't like about video games and make bulleted lists out of them, you aren't taking them as part of the greater whole. Maybe Crud Quest 84 had a and b and c things you didn't like, but maybe you'll be surprised to find you enjoyed the rest of the alphabet and forgot about a and b and c. It could happen, no? It's probably worth taking the risk for a game of this size and obvious investment from the creators (FFXIII, that is).

Hey, you're good at being condescending.

Good job. It makes me really want to hear what you have to say. If someone isn't belittling the other side, then fuck 'em, that's what I say.

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Hey, you're good at being condescending.

Good job. It makes me really want to hear what you have to say. If someone isn't belittling the other side, then fuck 'em, that's what I say.

Do I need to go out of my way to say "no offense" whilst posting here so that things I post aren't misconstrued as being insulting or condescending...?

Oh, and eat a dick. Thanks.

Nightblade, it seems like you are discussing those elements you listed as though you were some authority on the matter. You aren't, though, and we both know it. If you don't want to deign to try the game, that's perfectly fine. If you want to tell other people not too because it looks bad, that's also fine. But to go on a crusade about how awful a game is and go on and on about how bad the plot and et cetera is when you have never played it an are literally basing your entire argument on third-hand knowledge is a little bit overzealous, isn't it?

I'm sorry (Is that enough; or do I need to be nicer?), but how is plot information supplied by the developers "third hand knowledge". I reiterate that I don't base my decsision to purchase something solely on the testimony of others. You're over analyzing this.

The "third hand" information posted is a mixed bag of both incoherent fanboyism and irrational hatred. Not all of it can be taken at face value. One can discern what's actually wrong with the game by looking at the complaints of both sides and simply noticing a pattern.

Linearity - Not necessarily a bad thing

Plot - The information is readily available to everyone who cares enough to look for it.

Dialogue - The international trailer is all I needed to see before dismissing this aspect as crap.

Characters - See above

Gameplay - Gameplay footage is clusterfuck at best. If I need a 30 minute tutorial on the workings of a battle system, they're doing it wrong. Hell, Alter Aila has a better battle system than this (No, Im not trying to be offensive here either).

You can decide whether or not you'll like a game even before purchase, Im not saying being pleasantly surprised is impossible; just unlikely for people who do their homework.

Listen, I agree that, at a glance, the story looks pretty silly, and the names look like they were pulled out a AWESOMEMAX(tm) generator. So what? If you were asked to sum up the characters of any RPG, they would sound more or less interchangeable. The proof is in the pudding, anyway; why is it so hard for you to believe that there will be some interesting characterization between the characters in the game?

You may be right, characters... or at least good ones are difficult to describe in a single description. Again, we get a glimpse of how the characters act in the International Trailer. "Downright silly" at best "Completely retarded" at worst.

You think it's all going to be sunshine and rainbows if you just die?!" Seriously?

Playing a game, giving it a fair shake, and deciding you hate it and want to save others the torment is one thing. Guessing that a game is going to be bad and then embarking on the same mission is just unnecessary.

Giving a game a "fair shake" by playing it costs money. Part of the creation of a game is marketing it, and they did a good job of showing everyone just what the game is like.

Final Fantasy XIII isn't being gobbled up by the millions solely because it is made by Square (don't get me wrong, that is a huge drive, but) it is also being gobbled up because the production values are THROUGH THE FUCKING ROOF. This is how EA makes money. Have you ever played a game developed by EA? They are pretty much all terrible. EA has some good design houses under their blanket, but they usually just make money by having super-flashy graphics.

Reputation and production values... I don't know why you're assuming I wasn't aware of this. Hey, maybe Canuck was talking to you! Ok, well; probably not.

EA has little to do with the examples I provided, as I was talking about actual developers getting by on reputation alone, no matter how little effort or creativity is put into their product. Incidentally, EA gets by for a number of reasons; including by not limited to...

Indulging the lowest common denominator
Publishing the same game every year with a new number every year
Harvesting dead kittens

Maybe this is the case here. It's entirely possible! I'm not saying this is a wonderful game full of merriment and excellence. I'm saying that the Final Fantasy series has been pretty damn solid, and even the games I didn't really enjoy I've enjoyed a lot more than other games. I'm going to hold off talking about how shitty it is until after I've played it, though. Maybe I'll say "damn yo nb was right". Like I said, we'll see after I PLAY THE DAMN THING. You can't judge a book by its cover. Maybe the battle system is a mess, but maybe it's a fun mess. If the game is fun, it'll get decent marks from me. Doesn't that make sense?

The Final Fantasy series hasn't had a good game since 6, moving on...

FUUUUUUUUUU I'm not judging it by it's cover .alj AIPK":GA

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Ok, done.

Edit:

Is it actually wrong of me to expect decent characters in a Role Playing Game? Especially one with a giant budget? If this game had been called "Lost Odyssey 2: Electric Bogaloo" you'd damn well be sure people would be / will be scrutinizing it more

@Canuck: If you're addressing Nightblade's comments to me, don't worry about it. I'm not going to speak for anyone else on this matter, but I don't think Nightblade has said anything insulting to me. He's also been no more condescending toward me than I've been toward him. While I agree he's quick to belittle someone, you have to admit that people say some people stupid shit sometimes (often?) and probably shouldn't get away with it.

@Nightblade: I wasn't talking about judging this book by its cover, literally, I was using it as a pretty vague metaphor for judging the entire game by what amounts to about 1% of it. More like judging a book by it's back cover, I guess. I was EXTREMELY underwhelmed by the trailer, but I usually am underwhelmed by jRPG trailers because they tend to "highlight" the worst parts of the dialogue. I really enjoyed FFXII (oh that explains it, you are thinking!) but the trailer was garbage. The people who direct trailers seem to have no concept of how to do so, as they are usually comprised of random cutscene bits that are taken wildly out of context, and present a totally different picture from the one the game does. But the dialogue in FFXII wasn't bad. There were parts that made me cringe, but the vast majority of it was solid.

Usually, Square provides plot summaries that have almost no actual bearing on the game's actual playable story, anyway. What was FF6 about? Most plot summaries will sound pretty silly to anyone who's actually played the game because they will be too simple, too unrepresentative of the actual story. It was details that were great. I'm not saying FFXIII's characters are going to be a tenth as good as FF6's, nor am I going to say its dialogue or plot will be anywhere as good, either, and it's a damn shame that Square isn't making games to the same caliber as they used to. I also think it's pretty awful that they get away with it, but I don't think that FFXIII will be a bad game.

Just because something isn't as good as it should be doesn't mean it should be disregarded. If nobody bought FFXIII Square wouldn't say "darn guys we didn't do so great with that one. Let's make FFXIX actually good!!" and then make a great game that you could love and rub gently with oils when you were alone. I mean, I thought Final Fantasy Tactics Advance was nowhere near as good as Final Fantasy Tactics for the PSX. Why did they change the core gameplay so much? I loved it the way it was! But obviously someone thought there was room for improvement and so they changed it. Ce la vie. I still enjoyed FFT:A!

I am not sure if I have pointed this out, but I am pretty sure Japanese people are totally batfuck insane as a culture, and the only reason I liked jRPGs growing up so much is because they were so Westernized before their releases, much to the eternal fury of the Japanophiles who insisted Tim Woolsley was the anti-Christ for changing it to Espers instead of keeping the transliterated "Djinns" (or whatever the fuck it was). Canuck is going to have my head for saying that, but too bad!

Coming from a culture so alien, we are lucky their games make even the slightest bit of sense to us. Count your lucky stars it's airships and Evil Empires and not chocobo rape simulators.

I will make you a deal Nightblade: I will purchase the game and then tell you (accurately) how good or bad it is, and then you will listen to me if I say it is good and not just point out holes in why I am wrong about that, alright?

post=123955

The Final Fantasy series hasn't had a good game since 6, moving on...

7, 8, 9, and to some, 10. If you're going to respond to me, then please don't be a jerk, explain to me what makes these games bad, and not what you think makes them bad either... I want to know why exactly these games failed at being good RPG's, cause I sure can't see it.

They have some little annoying things about them, like drawing in 8, and from what I hear, some characters in 9 & 10. But those things hardly make them bad games.

TELL ME WHY THESE GAMES ARE BAD BUT DONT TELL ME WHY YOU THINK THEYRE BAD TELL ME WHY THEYRE BAD OK? GOOD.

Usually, Square provides plot summaries that have almost no actual bearing on the game's actual playable story, anyway. What was FF6 about? Most plot summaries will sound pretty silly to anyone who's actually played the game because they will be too simple, too unrepresentative of the actual story. It was details that were great. I'm not saying FFXIII's characters are going to be a tenth as good as FF6's, nor am I going to say its dialogue or plot will be anywhere as good, either, and it's a damn shame that Square isn't making games to the same caliber as they used to. I also think it's pretty awful that they get away with it, but I don't think that FFXIII will be a bad game.

Standards were different back then. If FF4 was released for the first time today; it would be written off as having an infantile and clichéd story... But I digress, this is just going around in circles at this point.

Coming from a culture so alien, we are lucky their games make even the slightest bit of sense to us. Count your lucky stars it's airships and Evil Empires and not chocobo rape simulators.

Um, what? Doesn't japan idolize America for some reason? Don't they try their best to emulate our culture? Even if this isn't the case, what part of this makes sense? Culture differences is not a reasonable explanation for THIS:

Hold on guys... the real enemy here is SO4. kayy?