TAKING A PAGE FROM FFVI'S BOOK.

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post=119486
IMO you shouldn't force the three scenarios thing into your game if it doesn't seem to fit naturally. Haven't you made a lot of progress with Chronology already?

EDIT: Whoops, didn't read one of your posts before. Sorry.


Yeah, just like with FFVI, it's just a one thing that occurs in the relatively early stages in the game and resolves itself relatively quickly, and you never see it again (maybe it'll happen again or something, but let's just focus on this occurrence) It's not something that's a narrative mechanic in itself like Suikoden III or Wild Arms. I didn't want to do it FF9's way either, because I like FFVI's idea of having it all happen at the same time while giving the player a choice of which scenario he wants to tackle first.
How long is "relatively quickly"? Sabin's scenario was twice as long as the other two and then some and that didn't help FF6's pacing at all. It didn't help that Sabin was completely segregated from the entire plot up to that point besides introducing Leo and showing Kefka is bad. On the other hand when FF9 had the split parties after Lindbulm you have Zidane and Garnet's scenario. Zidane's scenario is long (Gizamamluke didn't help either!) but the player never 'forgets' what the other party is doing because after something big happens with Zidane like defeating Gizamamluke or Beatrix the player shifts focus to Garnet then back again after a short stint with her.

If each character's scenario is long, break it up. Give the player a chance to see another scenario or continue the current one. I think it would help keep the player interested and gives them a chance to go "I'm done with samurais and ninjas for now, let's go Treasure Hunting!" or they can stick with it and wrap up Sabin's scenario if they're so interested.

It only really applies to long scenarios though. Bannon's scenario is about ten minutes and Locke's is twice that which I believe is short enough that it is perfectly fine as a single segment. Once you start crossing, say, the hour mark breaking up scenarios could be helpful.

*edit* godamnit why did I write Hogan
Hogan is evidence of me being a complete tool :(
Oh. :)

Well, yeah, that is true about Sabin's scenario is was that it was really, really long compared to the others. While FF9's was nice, I like FFVI's idea better in concept, so I think I'm going to go with that. Now the question is how I'm going to go about the individual scenarios. You brought up a good point with the length, so let's compare and contrast the scenarios here.

Sabin's scenario had you:

-Meeting Shadow and possibly having him join up as a party member
-Introducing Cyan, Doma, and General Leo
-The events at the Imperial Camp and Doma
-Cyan joins the entourage
-MUTHAFUCKA SUPLEXED A TRAIN
-Baren Falls and the waterfall fight (Shadow leaves you at this time if he hasn't already)
-Introduction of Gau, Mobliz and the Veldt
-Getting Gau to join you and possibly collecting some Rages for him
-Getting the underwater helmet and jumping into the Serpent Trench
-Introducing Nikeah, then onwards to Narshe

Locke's scenario has us

-Revisiting South Figaro
-Merchant/Soldier sneaking
-The introduction of Celes and her joining you
-Underground passageway to leave the city
-Revisiting the Figaro Cave
-The fight with TunnelArmor, then onwards to Narshe

Terra/Edgar/Banon's scenario features

-The rest of the Lete River
-Revisiting Narshe
-Having to go the back way
-...and that's about it, huh?

Then they all meet up.

So, I guess when you look at it this way, I want it to be shorter than Sabin's, but longer than Locke's.
My game Last Legend does this. There are three scenarios and you can do them in any order. They all meet at a certain part. It's a cool idea and you should do it.

It's cool because you get to play as characters that are introduced and their route to the main story is a bit of a spin off. Also more development on the main quest and a side character gets more background story.

Sorry if my posts seem to keep up with "DO IT FF9 STYLE YOU FOOL". I do believe FF9 has better writing but I'm not trying to hit you with a hammer until you do it the same way (godamnit there I go again). There isn't anything stopping a combination of FF6's scenario style with better writing and pacing!

ANYWAYS BACK TO LENGTH. I'm going to pull your example and quantify everything: Recruited characters are +2, introduced are 1, dungeons are 1, boss fights are 1, new locations are 1, cutscenes longer than a minute count as +1

Sabin
- Recruits Gau, Cyan (4)
- Introduces Shadow, Leo (2)
- Dungeons: Phantom Forest/Train dungeon and Serpent Trench (2)
- Bosses: Phantom Train, that waterfall boss (2)
- New location: The Veldt/Mobliz, Nikeah, Doma (3)
- Cutscenes: Kefka poisons Doma, everybody dies, Cyan goes berserk. Then Cyan's family boarding the train. Then the recruit scene for Gau (3)
Total: 16

Locke
- Recruits Celes (2)
- Introduces... nobody!
- Dungeons: Figaro Cave, and we'll count South Figaro and the basement as two different places (3)
- Bosses: Tunnel Armor (1)
- New location: None
- Cutscenes: Locke frees Celes (1)
Total: 7

That Wasteland of Content
- Recuits nobody
- Introduces nobody
- Dungeon: Narsh mines
- Bosses: none
- New location: none
Total: 1

Not the most accurate way of showing the content of each scenario, but I think it does make a point. Count the number of events that happens in a scenario, assign a weight to it, and add 'em up to get an idea of how long each scenario is and how much content there is. Some content goes hand in hand better than some (cutscenes introducing a new character, or maybe even a short dungeon after getting a new character to show 'em off in battle) which my weighting didn't show at all.

Personally for each scenario I'd also try to limit how much of each type of content shows up. I'd try to limit the number of characters you recruit to one, introduce two, two short dungeons with a dungeon boss and a scenario boss (if it fits the plot), and one new location.

I'd also try to avoid location specific game mechanics (The Veldt + Gau).

(I completely forgot you could recruit Shadow in Sabin's scenario! Whoops!)

*edit*
Notice: I came up with the categories, weightings, and assignments in about ten minutes so they are by no means reliable, accurate, or even good. I just wanted to give an example of a method.
recruiting shadow is like the first thing you do! god damn GRS
GRS, you forgot to mention Ghost >:(.
Dangnabbit I did. I'm forgetting more and more as time goes on :(




:D
If I may post my two cents while I wait for a game upload of mine to finish, I'll say that to me they were both equally enjoyable methods of playing split parties (FF6 and FF9) but in terms of what was more engaging story wise, I'd say try to do FF9's method. In this way you can have the player play the scenarios in an order that makes sure they are aware of the interconnecting storylines and how the parties are relating to each other.

As GRS said the draw of FF9's way was that you could see how each party was advancing the story and how this related. Also, suddenly switching to a new party after a thrilling boss fight both raises suspense value for the party you just left behind and is a breath of fresh air for the player who is suddenly thrust into a new location and new scenario after racing to save Burmecia.
well i havent fully played through ff6, so i dont know how it worked, but i thought the problem when it happened in ff9 was that i ended up with 2 average groups and 2 terrible groups(because i couldnt be bothered training up all the characters) and i really did not like this, it meant level grinding with a couple of characters, and i only level grind when im desperate.

Im not sure if someones already pointed it out(sorry if you have!) but if youre splitting up the party and you have to fight with all of the different groups, id suggest having some sort of warning beforehand so people level up all of the characters evenly(or at least enough for them not to die quickly).
Other than the fighting aspect, i think it's a good idea, it means for better characterisations of people you wouldnt normally be bothered about, or appear as much as some other characters
When I first played through FF6 and was given the choice which character's path to follow I chose Locke's (because he's the awesomest!) AND I assumed I'd only get to play one of the 3 paths and that the others would play out their stories on their own.

I was both a little disappointed and excited that I had to play the other 2 paths.

Was there any consideration in having you chose 1 path and play it out with the other 2 resolving themselves with a standard "here's how the story went for them"? That is, if you wanted to play paths 2 and 3 you'd replay the game?
post=119674
Was there any consideration in having you chose 1 path and play it out with the other 2 resolving themselves with a standard "here's how the story went for them"? That is, if you wanted to play paths 2 and 3 you'd replay the game?


Nah, because then you'd miss out on items, gameplay, character development, important events, leveling, etc etc if you could only choose one path per playthrough. Like I said before, who wants to play LESS game?
Just so you guys know, tonight I've started on this segment of the game. Wish me luck, but of course that doesn't mean you can't continue to discuss as I go along.
Man if you ever were on AIM I would have helped you with this like whaaaaaat but no no you are too good for that
post=119648
well i havent fully played through ff6, so i dont know how it worked, but i thought the problem when it happened in ff9 was that i ended up with 2 average groups and 2 terrible groups(because i couldnt be bothered training up all the characters) and i really did not like this, it meant level grinding with a couple of characters, and i only level grind when im desperate.

Im not sure if someones already pointed it out(sorry if you have!) but if youre splitting up the party and you have to fight with all of the different groups, id suggest having some sort of warning beforehand so people level up all of the characters evenly(or at least enough for them not to die quickly).
Other than the fighting aspect, i think it's a good idea, it means for better characterisations of people you wouldnt normally be bothered about, or appear as much as some other characters


I don't understand how this could of happened i never trained one of my parties and never had to grind because the monsters in both areas were very easy.

Back to the main topic i really enjoyed the scenario part in ff6 my 2nd favorite part (favorite being the last area where you got to play as 3 parties man that rocked) infact i highly encourage you to do this i for one would play your game to see how its done and if you can try to make each scenario 30-45 minutes because thats probably the best amount of time for a scenario to be.
Punctuation is your friend.

I also liked the multi-party dungeons in FFVI.
punctuation is a tool of bourgeois oppression of the proletariat
Punctuation and proper grammar are tools of the man possessed of common sense and respect for others in web communications. Then, I've seen many on the web who might claim that common sense and respect for others are ways they get oppressed...so you may have a point.

I don't know about liking the multi-party dungeons (I always seemed to get myself stuck in the Phoenix Cave - I'm not sure how I accomplished that), but the section originally under discussion in the thread was kind of nice, yes. Of course, I'm also one of those that enjoyed the 'grind your team from scratch' factor of Dragon Quest IV's chapter setup - make of that what you will.
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