EVIL

stirring the pot here..

The truth is, right and wrong are entirely relative to societal norms. And "truth" is entirely dependent on what we can see and understand. There was a time when people thought diarrhea and seizures were evil.

...

tl;dr: there is no good and evil. you are now breathing manually.

Disagree. Strongly. Not the kind of argument I intend to get into on an internet forum, though. I just would like to register that I do not believe in absolute moral relativism. And no, I'm not a religious fundamentalist or anything of the sort. I believe that there are objectively good (moral) and objectively evil (immoral) acts, but they are very, very rare, and the vast, vast majority of acts fall into the middle ground, a gray area where they are open to interpretation. This is one of the beliefs that, in my life, has been just has important in terms of story-telling as it has in real life. We are all the protagonists of our own narrative; no one is the villain of their own story.

But are there acts that are inherently good or inherently evil? Yes.

(BTW, I didn't quote that part of your post, but it is unusual that you believe in both moral relativism and determinism. Most philosophies that advocate one of those rejects the other.)

He was a leader because he was given power. There were people who believed in his idea. He was a brilliant manipulator, sure, but he didn't get there alone. He wasn't God, he was a man.

Agree (Hitler is no less responsible for their deaths, others are just equally responsible for them. Hitler killed all of them, but the guys flipping the switches and pulling the triggers still killed the ones they killed.), but I would take this a step further and in a different direction. Germany as a nation--including its people--should have been held far more responsible at the end of WWII. The nation of Germany should not have been allowed to exist AT ALL after the crimes committed by the vastly overwhelming majority of its populace (and yes, I consider nonresistance in certain circumstances to be equivalent to a crime).

Of course, history AFTER World War II indicates I may be wrong here. The collective guilt that almost all present-generation Germans feel about the Holocaust--the resentment that they feel towards warlike and imperial policy and behavior-is the strongest possible argument against what I just said.

On a lighter note--

isn't this topic Godwin's law by default?

post=140157
there is no good and evil...

Basically, I agree with what Max said.

By my standards and viewpoints, yes, there is. I'm also the kind of person that would kill those who committed what I believe to be evil acts...if I wouldn't be chastised for it. I've got a strong sense of justice.

And whether or not you do or don't agree with my viewpoints on what evil is doesn't matter. What matters to me is all that matters to me.
If it is evil, it is evil and--at that point--the opinions of others don't matter.

post=140160
Another thing to chew on, Hitler didn't physically murder millions of jews. He was a leader with human beings at his side that willfully followed him. He perpetuated the idea, but he didn't round 'em all up and pull the switch on every single gas chamber.

He was a leader because he was given power. There were people who believed in his idea. He was a brilliant manipulator, sure, but he didn't get there alone. He wasn't God, he was a man.

Also this.

this thread is now about hitler's fucking awesome paintings

1) What was the most evil thing you have ever done?

In elementary school, I would make fun of this girl named Erika because she had a VERY deep and husky voice along with the other kids, although I was teased as well because I wasn't "black enough" was deemed a.................happy person. Still, it felt good to have someone lower on the social food chain than I was and it helped take some attention off of me. I feel like crap typing that because I have NEVER, EVER done anything like that since....... I was around 7 or 8 then...

2) What was the most evil thing ever done to you?

When I was 14, some mother fucker broke into my house and stole my brand new PS2, my games, my memory cards and had the AUDACITY to step on Persona 2. I was heated.

3) What was the most evil thing ever done?

Slavery, the Holocaust and the Trail of Tears.

post=140255

post=140225
you dont care if other people think something's evil or not and you're willing to kill evil acts. what if you were wrong?

You're missing my point.

If I were willing to go as far to kill someone who I thought was evil, then I--at that point--would utterly believe I was right. It's not that I'm close-minded, it's that I would be willing to go that far for something I utterly believe is true and just.

Erm.. I'm not sure you've fully understood HER point.
Your definition of evil is not the same as everyone's definition of evil. Perspective and circumstance account for everything a human can judge and understand. If you can only see and be from one pair of eyes and in one body at any given time, then you have a single-minded perspective.

If you "utterly believe right," at any time, how can you call that anything other than close-minded?

That just means you're not a sociopath. : )

post=140457
I always (and still do, probably!) think to myself that I would never want to subject anyone else to the humiliation of being with me.

:( how awful

post=140255
it's that I would be willing to go that far for something I utterly believe is true and just.

...is murder ever true and just though

Hypothetically, what if I think society's opinion is wrong?

I suppose you weigh the how bad this guy is versus how much you'd prefer not to spend your life in prison. But if you're so sure he's as bad as you think, wouldn't you be able to prove it in a courtroom?

Taking the life of a murderer is not murder.

There was a relevant myth in the Buddhist tradition (in hide tabs so I don't bore those who don't care):



TL;DR - The act of killing is still murder, even if it is the right thing to do.

I see what you're saying, F-G, but I can't help but admit I don't find guilt to be a strong enough punishment.

erm...when did i dispute that?
what mitsu's talking about would be murder