PEOPLE WANT WHAT THEY CAN'T HAVE.

post=203327
MKID are you Barack Obama's debating stand-in

I don't quite follow.

post=203331
MKID, just don't post anymore until you have at least a paragraph long post DIRECTLY PERTAINING to the subject matter of the post.

You should have a dash between "paragraph" and "long." {/MKID}


My favorite instance of this is in most Final Fantasy games. You go to the latest town and start buying equipment.

"Huh? Why can you buy forks here? A - And spears? Freya? Do I get Freya next? Really!?"

Lo and behold, some of the most subtle foreshadowing possible in an RPG. You literally can't even use these purchasable items, but you know they mean something awesome.

It's done 800x better in Chrono Trigger. The way FF6 does it is pretty stupid, although at least it makes sense since new players might not fully explore Narshe the first time.

post=203297

post=203265

from Zephyr
You could always put that chest with über equipment out of reach for most part of the game and only reachable at the final phase. At least all that eagerly wait is finally over by then. That is if the player still remembers there's a chest to obtain there.

This is a much better way to do it. Having something that looks rewarding to the player be completely unreachable is just bad game design. Nobody's going to like torturing themselves trying to find a way to get it, and Corfaisus' idea about punishing the player for doing so is even worse.

Developers shouldn't have a 'fuck you' mentality when they're making a game. It's their job to make it difficult but fair.

No, a "fuck you" mentality is exactly what we need. If you go out of your way to cheat in a game, you deserve a good kick in the neck.

Are there ANY elements of good design in anything you've said in this topic?

Have you actually ever played a non-RPG Maker videogame?

post=203297

post=203265

from Zephyr
You could always put that chest with über equipment out of reach for most part of the game and only reachable at the final phase. At least all that eagerly wait is finally over by then. That is if the player still remembers there's a chest to obtain there.

This is a much better way to do it. Having something that looks rewarding to the player be completely unreachable is just bad game design. Nobody's going to like torturing themselves trying to find a way to get it, and Corfaisus' idea about punishing the player for doing so is even worse.

Developers shouldn't have a 'fuck you' mentality when they're making a game. It's their job to make it difficult but fair.

No, a "fuck you" mentality is exactly what we need. If you go out of your way to cheat in a game, you deserve a good kick in the neck.

Players don't cheat unless you allow them to cheat.

post=203431

post=203297

post=203265

from Zephyr
You could always put that chest with über equipment out of reach for most part of the game and only reachable at the final phase. At least all that eagerly wait is finally over by then. That is if the player still remembers there's a chest to obtain there.

This is a much better way to do it. Having something that looks rewarding to the player be completely unreachable is just bad game design. Nobody's going to like torturing themselves trying to find a way to get it, and Corfaisus' idea about punishing the player for doing so is even worse.

Developers shouldn't have a 'fuck you' mentality when they're making a game. It's their job to make it difficult but fair.

No, a "fuck you" mentality is exactly what we need. If you go out of your way to cheat in a game, you deserve a good kick in the neck.

Are there ANY elements of good design in anything you've said in this topic?

Have you actually ever played a non-RPG Maker videogame?

"No" to your first question and "yes" to your second. I've been playing video games in some way, shape, or form since before my first memory, and in that time I've experienced anywhere between this and that.

post=203463
Players don't cheat unless you allow them to cheat.

You couldn't be more wrong.

post=203312
I found that by telling people to use items in In Praise of Peace, they would use them to great effect. Then they would use attack items found later on, too.

Make them useful, show that they're useful, and make your game warrant the use of them, and ta-daaaa!

This is very important. You did this well in your latest game, simply by explaining how treasure chests are done by giving away a gold key for opening a rare treasure chest. All 3 steps done in less than 30 seconds.

I thought this was a dumb topic at first since I thought all of this was fairly obvious. Apparently, it isn't! Attraction mostly forms from preconditions, rather than the actual results. Usually a person will strive for a treasure chest even when it contains something terrible, simply because of the preconditions. I will list some famous game examples to show you what I mean.

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time treasure chests.

A precondition is what I would define as what occurs before obtaining the thing you want, down to the last second before obtaining it. In this case, it is a treasure chest. This is from memory, so maybe I am wrong on how this goes. The game breaks chests down into small, normal, and boss chests. And the preconditions for each one would be:

Small Chest:
-Obtained by clearing a room full of enemies (precondition, sometimes not applicable)
-Walking up to the chest and opening it (precondition)
-Shitty jingle sound when obtaining item (precondition)
-Getting the item (result)

Big Chest:
-More appealing graphically (precondition)
-Obtained by either clearing a room full of enemies, solving a puzzle, or beating a boss (precondition)
-Walking up to the chest and opening it (precondition)
-VERY INTENSE CAMERA 360 SCENE WITH LIGHT SHINING OUT OF CHEST (precondition)
-VERY INTENSE MUSIC PLAYS (Precondition)
-Getting the item (result)

Boss chests are the same thing except even more graphically appealing (IRON CHEST)

Castlevania: Symphony of the Night and Metroid Prime. Having the best equipment/power ups right from the beginning of the game.

Both games do this very well. In Symphony of the Night, you are shown how badass you can get right at the beginning, but are quickly stripped away of everything, leaving you with Alucard's fists. ;(
This entire sequence and hours of gameplay are the preconditions before receiving the items. You wanted those items. Do not lie. You were teased. Anybody who did not want them is lying. Same thing applies with Metroid Prime.

Also yeah, Chrono Trigger does this with the sealed items. The tune that played before you could open them makes you want it!

edit: wow what a long post! My apologies!

post=203516

post=203463
Players don't cheat unless you allow them to cheat.

You couldn't be more wrong.

That's where you're wrong. If there are no cheat codes, walkthroughs, or glitches in the game, there shouldn't be anyway for a person to cheat, unless they hack, then they wouldn't get the "good kick" you mentioned.

post=203115
It's one of those reasons why people hoard Elixirs, take on convoluted sidequests, and why people always come back for more no matter how many times they get their ass kicked by an optional boss.

You have just given me an idea for the most useless game I have yet to not finish.. one that will be made for me and all I desire in a game