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SOMEBODY TALK ME INTO/OUT OF THIS
Posts
halibabica
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CloseOkay, so, I've been thinking about custom graphics lately, and I'm debating whether or not I should make some for my current project. On the outset, it seems like an all-around good idea, but I've broken it down into several pros and cons.
Pros
- unique style: the game would finally be its own thing instead of another stupid RTP adventure.
- more appeal: having its own look would make the game more appealing...or less unappealing, as it were.
- good practice: I'm not the best pixel artist, and I do want to go all-custom eventually anyway, so this would certainly be helpful experience.
Cons
- time consuming: this project is already taking far longer than I hoped it would. The default graphics aren't pretty, but they're a means to an end for something I've been dying to get over and done with.
- custom is worse?: as before, I'm not a very good artist, and making all my own graphics might result in...well...some disappointing visuals.
- superficial only: even with different graphics, the game would still have some underlying issues that wouldn't be fixed by them. I don't know if people are more forgiving of such things when games look prettier, but would I be better off focusing on these things instead?
- no one would play it no matter what graphics I used.
So, I'm at an impasse. New graphics would give it a new look and give me good practice, but the time sink would be huge with a result that might not even be worth it. What do you folks think?
Pros
- unique style: the game would finally be its own thing instead of another stupid RTP adventure.
- more appeal: having its own look would make the game more appealing...or less unappealing, as it were.
- good practice: I'm not the best pixel artist, and I do want to go all-custom eventually anyway, so this would certainly be helpful experience.
Cons
- time consuming: this project is already taking far longer than I hoped it would. The default graphics aren't pretty, but they're a means to an end for something I've been dying to get over and done with.
- custom is worse?: as before, I'm not a very good artist, and making all my own graphics might result in...well...some disappointing visuals.
- superficial only: even with different graphics, the game would still have some underlying issues that wouldn't be fixed by them. I don't know if people are more forgiving of such things when games look prettier, but would I be better off focusing on these things instead?
So, I'm at an impasse. New graphics would give it a new look and give me good practice, but the time sink would be huge with a result that might not even be worth it. What do you folks think?
Custom graphics are only better than non-custom graphics if they look better. If you don't think you can do it, then don't waste your time.
NicoB
3071
Can I talk you out of making another Pokemon Hunter game? Seriously, you obviously understand what makes a game good from your reviews. I don't understand why you don't apply it to something more original than Pokemon. And don't say, "I can't do anything else," because that's bull. More people would play your games if they didn't revolve around that crappy cartoon in some way.
NicoB
3071
author=Fallen-Griever
If he made games that were exactly the same, only with Pokémon replaced by some other form of monster, then I feel they'd be better recieved...
This.
author=halibabica
- superficial only: even with different graphics, the game would still have some underlying issues that wouldn't be fixed by them. I don't know if people are more forgiving of such things when games look prettier, but would I be better off focusing on these things instead?
You'd be surprised by how many people can forgive so easily based on aesthetic quality alone.
Anyway, if you're willing to put in the work, I say go for it. Or you can ask someone to help you. It would ease the workload immensely. If the RTP or other available graphics do not fit your fancy, then perhaps custom is the only way to go about it. However, I still say you should ask someone to help you if you truly believe your art is less than satisfactory.
from NicoB
Can I talk you out of making another Pokemon Hunter game? Seriously, you obviously understand what makes a game good from your reviews. I don't understand why you don't apply it to something more original than Pokemon. And don't say, "I can't do anything else," because that's bull. More people would play your games if they didn't revolve around that crappy cartoon in some way.
Interesting argument. The thing is, though, I want to make Pokemon RPGs. As unfathomable as it seems, it's what I want to do. But I also want people to take me seriously, and thus far, it seems these two goals are nearly incompatible. I have no doubt that this:
from Fallen-Griever
If he made games that were exactly the same, only with Pokémon replaced by some other form of monster, then I feel they'd be better recieved...
...is true. But it also suggests that, if not for the Pokemon stigma, people would play and enjoy my games as they already are. Meaning the trouble wasn't the Pokemon, but rather the perception of them that held people back. In which case I shouldn't have to change anything because the closed-mindedness of others is not my problem. OH, but it is my problem because I want people to like the stuff I make. What a conundrum!
So, it's unlikely you'll talk me out of dropping Pokemon. It's the appeal issue I'm trying to combat in this way anyway, so, while that would be the most direct solution, I'd still like to find a way to satisfy both of the aforementioned goals.
Custom graphics are only better than non-custom graphics if they look better...
Not if you take into account the
SaileriusThere's a billion ways to sugarcoat it, but for me, the final conclusion is this flat out. I'd rather play a game made with RTP, REFMAP, or rips rather than one made with "subpar" custom graphics. Using custom graphics just for the sake of custom graphics doesn't necessarily make a game better.
Custom graphics are only better than non-custom graphics if they look better. If you don't think you can do it, then don't waste your time.
NicoBI beg your pardon, but Pokemon is an anime, not a cartoon. I'll leave the crappiness up for debate, though.
that crappy cartoon
Lennon
88
I definitely endorse this idea. Believe me, it feels better to make your own characters, locations, and everything else, instead of mish-mashing them together from someone elses. Having said that, I don't think switching in the middle of the project is a good idea, you're just wasting time at that point.
When you do your next project, definitely make some. I believe it is a step in the right direction if you have any competency making them at all.
Also, if you need help while making them, you can talk to me on AIM, if you feel like it. I'd be more than happy to help someone in this regard.
When you do your next project, definitely make some. I believe it is a step in the right direction if you have any competency making them at all.
Also, if you need help while making them, you can talk to me on AIM, if you feel like it. I'd be more than happy to help someone in this regard.
from KingArthurfrom NicoB
that crappy cartoon
I beg your pardon, but Pokemon is an anime, not a cartoon. I'll leave the crappiness up for debate, though.
in b4 teh derail
Anime is Japanese cartoons; don't turn this into a semantics debate.
In regard to the uncertainty of graphics quality, well...I'm simply unsure. With so many different styles available, even graphics that might be considered poor can look good when they're consistent together in a game. As before, Space Funeral is a good example of this.
author=KingArthurSaileriusThere's a billion ways to sugarcoat it, but for me, the final conclusion is this flat out. I'd rather play a game made with RTP, REFMAP, or rips rather than one made with "subpar" custom graphics. Using custom graphics just for the sake of custom graphics doesn't necessarily make a game better.
Custom graphics are only better than non-custom graphics if they look better. If you don't think you can do it, then don't waste your time.
Yeah, I gotta agree with this. God don't like ugly and neither does anyone else. While practice does make perfect, you're not gonna get brownie points for ugly ass custom graphics on principle alone. Better make 'em good or bust, just like anything else.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
If you are a good photographer, or a good google image searcher, you can often make custom tiles out of photos. Or out of paintings, or whatever. If you do it right they can even blend in pretty well with ripped graphics, as long as the ripped graphics don't have a lot of hard lines, or you add hard lines to the custom graphics.
On the downside, this is actually just as much work as doing them by hand, because you still have to zoom in to 8x and make pixel edits and such to make sure it all lines up correctly. And also on the downside, many of the indoor objects will look really stupid with super deformed charsets, so you might have to rip charsets from a game with more realistic proportions (like Suikoden 2). But on the upside, you don't need any artistic talent.
I am pretty bad at this since I'm just starting out with attempting it, but I've seen it done really well. (In the video, the vat, the crane and the walls are from photos, while everything else is taken from RMXP resource sites and is presumably ripped from various games. Still needs a lot of work.)
On the downside, this is actually just as much work as doing them by hand, because you still have to zoom in to 8x and make pixel edits and such to make sure it all lines up correctly. And also on the downside, many of the indoor objects will look really stupid with super deformed charsets, so you might have to rip charsets from a game with more realistic proportions (like Suikoden 2). But on the upside, you don't need any artistic talent.
I am pretty bad at this since I'm just starting out with attempting it, but I've seen it done really well. (In the video, the vat, the crane and the walls are from photos, while everything else is taken from RMXP resource sites and is presumably ripped from various games. Still needs a lot of work.)
Radnen
1806
I'd start by making edits to current graphics. "Hybridize" the game a bit and see where it goes.
from LockeZ
If you are a good photographer, or a good google image searcher...
I did this for some of my battle backdrops. Tardis said it was pretty weak. I'm indifferent to them (or I wouldn't be using them).
from Radnen
I'd start by making edits to current graphics. "Hybridize" the game a bit and see where it goes.
I already do this. If I need a sprite that isn't in the RTP, I make it myself and match its style to the RTP as best I can. It's not like I've never sprited before...
author=Sailerius
Custom graphics are only better than non-custom graphics if they look better. If you don't think you can do it, then don't waste your time.
right. you obviously don't know what you're talking about as usual.
if you actually have to sit down and ask yourself if you should/want to make custom graphics, that's sort of weird to me. people say it is a huge amount of work, but the average rm user is just, incredibly lazy and think "laying tiles" is some exhausting task.
when you use content you've made, it actually makes the work worthwhile, because it's actually "your" stuff. you can do essentially anything in rpgmaker when you use custom graphics. you can't hang on the excuse of "lol sorry this rudra chipset is too restricting". the ability to work around anything graphically in rpgmaker makes it that much more fun to use at the expense of idk "time" i guess. the only thing challenging about it, is picking out all the things you want to put into the game.
the point of rpgmaker kind of changes when you use custom graphics. it doesn't matter if it's shitty or stellar. not only do you get to make your own content, you get to practice pixel spriting. rpgmaker gives a lot back in certain ways. i mean, i hated spriting at first, i didn't understand it but i started doing FF6 edits and kept working on a game and then eventually i was able to just make whatever i wanted. so, i think spriting is really fun now, instead of a headache. i remember when nessiah and ocean joined the rm community. it's kind of cool to see how far they've come from just starting to learn to pixel to creating 100% custom games every week.
if it's something you want to invest time into, do it. don't listen to people go "IF IT AINT GOOD, DON'T DO IT!" shut the fuck up with that. go lay your RTP tiles. it is dumb people like that, who are just, incredibly unoriginal, uninspiring, and just, inability to actually do anything creative so they drown their games in various scripts and menus that nobody cares about.
rpgmaker is just a huge art portfolio waiting for you to fill it.
