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USING RPGMAKER TO TEACH R.E. TO KIDS
Posts
BurningTyger
View playlists
CloseYes, your fabulously pink Avatar. Anyway I'm impatiently waiting for the person who started this topic to come back so I can see what he thinks of all the things we've said.
Hey alright, verbal warning time. I love these.
harmonic, don't quote and post giant fucking images. Same goes to the people who posted videos.
WolfCoder, stop instigating petty anti-religion horseshit. You can bring that up in a different topic if you really want to discuss religion like an adult instead of slamming someone's game development topic.
He's asking about this as a teaching tool, not for your comments on christianity. This is supposed to be a game development site; not a trollhard site. Shape up or ship the fuck out.
harmonic, don't quote and post giant fucking images. Same goes to the people who posted videos.
WolfCoder, stop instigating petty anti-religion horseshit. You can bring that up in a different topic if you really want to discuss religion like an adult instead of slamming someone's game development topic.
He's asking about this as a teaching tool, not for your comments on christianity. This is supposed to be a game development site; not a trollhard site. Shape up or ship the fuck out.
Hoddmimir
200
Thank you WIP. You just said what I was getting ready to. Somehow we moved off topic. The purpose was to discuss useful inclusions into an rpg as a teaching tool. Our opinions on the topic being taught isn't really of any use to anyone for this topic. Whether or not to use rpg makers as tools for teaching is slightly more useful but even then still doesn't meet the point of the discussion. Focus is key on this one I think. So here it goes...
An unwinnable fight against a giant whale that ultimately results in being swallowed and then play continues in a new map set designed to look like whale insides. A particular task must be accomplished to then get back out of the whale.
A prayer skill? Something with like a random chance to effect the outcome of battle. (Random to determine whether your prayers were answered or not.)
Fighting giants. Like those killed to clear the land for God's chosen people.
Fights againsts demons or possessed pigs. Like those jesus cast demons into and then made run off a cliff.
A battle within a fire like with the three men whose names I can't remember... ishaq?? ebendago??
A flood would be nice. Perhaps collecting two of some animals that got lost on the way to the ark.
Save points can be churches. (You get saved.)
Tutorials from prophets... or possibly burning bushes.
Um... let's see. Whoever said parting of he seas earlier, that was a good idea.
No gameovers. If you die you get ressurected?
That's all I have right now. It's been awhile since I read the bible so I don't have anything left off the top of my head.
An unwinnable fight against a giant whale that ultimately results in being swallowed and then play continues in a new map set designed to look like whale insides. A particular task must be accomplished to then get back out of the whale.
A prayer skill? Something with like a random chance to effect the outcome of battle. (Random to determine whether your prayers were answered or not.)
Fighting giants. Like those killed to clear the land for God's chosen people.
Fights againsts demons or possessed pigs. Like those jesus cast demons into and then made run off a cliff.
A battle within a fire like with the three men whose names I can't remember... ishaq?? ebendago??
A flood would be nice. Perhaps collecting two of some animals that got lost on the way to the ark.
Save points can be churches. (You get saved.)
Tutorials from prophets... or possibly burning bushes.
Um... let's see. Whoever said parting of he seas earlier, that was a good idea.
No gameovers. If you die you get ressurected?
That's all I have right now. It's been awhile since I read the bible so I don't have anything left off the top of my head.
Save points can be churches. (You get saved.)
Since all the ideas you are considering are taken from the old testament, temples might be more appropriate than churches.
Unless you're not aiming for realism.
EDIT: those kids are going to use rpgmaker in their R.E. class, I would have given my left arm to do such a thing in elementary school.
I'm jealous ):
Faenon
3489
Hey all, sorry for the delay -I think I'm in a different timezone to all you guys, what with being in the UK.
So I should probably say that in this instance Christianity is what is on the syllabus and what it is my job to teach, that the parents know what is being taught, and that the kids are free to agree or diasgree with the theological content according to their own personal choice. Hope that clears things up.
I'm trying to do both!
Yeah, cause as someone said rpgmaker is what I know. Also as I will try and make clear in a sec I think it's perfectly suited to the job.
I'm not going to let you get away with this ;) I have a First Class BA in Theology from Oxford University, UK, and am hoping to return there to study for an MPhil next year after finishing this job. You are right insofar as that it is less common to find conservative believers studying their faith at an advanced tertiary level, but they do exist, and I know many. Also, I've read the whole Bible through once, and am halfway through doing it a second time. Granted many who call themselves Christians may not really have read the sacred text of their claimed belief system -but please don't count me in that.
Anyway, to avoid this turning into the token religious opinions topic, I should help out by giving some more info about what is being taught. Some replies have been really helpful, esp. Hoddmimir, thanks!
ORIGINAL CONTENT BEGINS HERE
Remember the kids are not coding the game -I will do that- but rather designing different elements alongside learning about a theological topic, which I will then incorporate in e.g. scanning in monsters they draw and converting them into the right format (for which the rpgmaker2000 DBS is perfect).
So far what I have is, where the left column is rpgmaker element and the right column is topic or theme:
LIST 1
Character creation - God's creation of us
Skill sets - God-given talents
Equipment - "the armour of God"
Quest of game - the Greatest Command
Setting of game - God's creation of the world
Supporting items - The Bible
Monster design - Evil
NPC design - the Body of Christ
The completed product - Salvation History
If you don't like the Christian elements or wanted to repeat the process looking at a different belief system you could "demythologise" the list as follows:
LIST 2
Character creation - our uniqueness and intrinsic value
Skill sets - stuff we're good at, developing our gifts
Equipment - tools and principles for getting along in life
Quest of game - the search for existential meaning/telos
Setting of game - ecosystems and care for the environment
Supporting items - the importance of symbols and sacred texts
Monster design - conflict, opposition and greed in the world
NPC design - the value and function of religious community
The completed product - metanarrative and selection of worldview
Any thoughts?
author=BurningTyger
...I'm suggesting that Feanon change his goals. Perhaps teaching only Christianity is what the group he's with wants him to do, but it remains to be seen if that's truly the right thing to do- a question only Feanon can answer for himself.
So I should probably say that in this instance Christianity is what is on the syllabus and what it is my job to teach, that the parents know what is being taught, and that the kids are free to agree or diasgree with the theological content according to their own personal choice. Hope that clears things up.
author=BurningTyger
It's up to Feanon to decide whether for him love means to teach the children what he himself believes, or to teach them how to find their own path. Only he can say for sure.
I'm trying to do both!
author=WolfCoder
Though you still do kind of have a point, why RPG Maker 2003, why not GameMaker or something?
Yeah, cause as someone said rpgmaker is what I know. Also as I will try and make clear in a sec I think it's perfectly suited to the job.
author=WolfCoder...like the OP is a complete dope and has no idea what content is in the book he teaches for his class.Actually, this is a big problem among Christians where they haven't really read the bible that much. Or they teach a whitewashed version, or whatever. And when they do actually understand it in full they tend to become Atheists, or otherwise stray from their original stance from what they heard in sermon/whatever.
It's all a big internal struggle when it really comes down to it, I'm lucky to have a relatively stable system of beliefs (I'm not quite an atheist, actually). Most appear unsure of what to believe.
I'm not going to let you get away with this ;) I have a First Class BA in Theology from Oxford University, UK, and am hoping to return there to study for an MPhil next year after finishing this job. You are right insofar as that it is less common to find conservative believers studying their faith at an advanced tertiary level, but they do exist, and I know many. Also, I've read the whole Bible through once, and am halfway through doing it a second time. Granted many who call themselves Christians may not really have read the sacred text of their claimed belief system -but please don't count me in that.
Anyway, to avoid this turning into the token religious opinions topic, I should help out by giving some more info about what is being taught. Some replies have been really helpful, esp. Hoddmimir, thanks!
ORIGINAL CONTENT BEGINS HERE
Remember the kids are not coding the game -I will do that- but rather designing different elements alongside learning about a theological topic, which I will then incorporate in e.g. scanning in monsters they draw and converting them into the right format (for which the rpgmaker2000 DBS is perfect).
So far what I have is, where the left column is rpgmaker element and the right column is topic or theme:
LIST 1
Character creation - God's creation of us
Skill sets - God-given talents
Equipment - "the armour of God"
Quest of game - the Greatest Command
Setting of game - God's creation of the world
Supporting items - The Bible
Monster design - Evil
NPC design - the Body of Christ
The completed product - Salvation History
If you don't like the Christian elements or wanted to repeat the process looking at a different belief system you could "demythologise" the list as follows:
LIST 2
Character creation - our uniqueness and intrinsic value
Skill sets - stuff we're good at, developing our gifts
Equipment - tools and principles for getting along in life
Quest of game - the search for existential meaning/telos
Setting of game - ecosystems and care for the environment
Supporting items - the importance of symbols and sacred texts
Monster design - conflict, opposition and greed in the world
NPC design - the value and function of religious community
The completed product - metanarrative and selection of worldview
Any thoughts?
AABattery
732
Also, instead of "The Bible" as items, maybe "Holy Relics"?
So, I post something that was relevant and I get slammed? That's just not right!
EDIT: Oh wait...
author=WIP
Same goes to the people who posted videos.
So, I post something that was relevant and I get slammed? That's just not right!
EDIT: Oh wait...
Hostilefun
30
What, like the holy grail, the lance of longinus and the arc of the covenant?
Wow... If you look at most of the bible, I doubt making a visual version will be a good example to kids.
Wow... If you look at most of the bible, I doubt making a visual version will be a good example to kids.
I hate to say this but the Bible is pretty....brutal and gore-y in a way if you look at it D:
Wouldn't that make the children erm...exposed to stuff they shouldn't know yet? Maybe focus on Jesus's Parables instead or something? O_o
These are pretty good though!
Wouldn't that make the children erm...exposed to stuff they shouldn't know yet? Maybe focus on Jesus's Parables instead or something? O_o
Character creation - our uniqueness and intrinsic value
Skill sets - stuff we're good at, developing our gifts
Equipment - tools and principles for getting along in life
Quest of game - the search for existential meaning/telos
Setting of game - ecosystems and care for the environment
Supporting items - the importance of symbols and sacred texts
Monster design - conflict, opposition and greed in the world
NPC design - the value and function of religious community
The completed product - metanarrative and selection of worldview
These are pretty good though!
WolfCoder
3554
I'm not going to let you get away with this ;) I have a First Class BA in Theology from Oxford University, UK, and am hoping to return there to study for an MPhil next year after finishing this job. You are right insofar as that it is less common to find conservative believers studying their faith at an advanced tertiary level, but they do exist, and I know many. Also, I've read the whole Bible through once, and am halfway through doing it a second time. Granted many who call themselves Christians may not really have read the sacred text of their claimed belief system -but please don't count me in that.
I actually guessed you were a theologian. You're too friendly to be any run-of-the-mill acolyte. Because this is an RPG making website and WIP doesn't want anything to happen here, I'm going to stop here. You're welcome to PM me if you're curious.
Hoddmimir
200
G
Oh good point. Synagogues and temples would probably be better. Then again the class is more christianity based so the kids are probably more used to churches. Now I'm not sure! lol.
@Faenon Glad I could be of help. :)
author=heisenmanSave points can be churches. (You get saved.)Since all the ideas you are considering are taken from the old testament, temples might be more appropriate than churches.
:
Oh good point. Synagogues and temples would probably be better. Then again the class is more christianity based so the kids are probably more used to churches. Now I'm not sure! lol.
@Faenon Glad I could be of help. :)
weren't most churches simple hovels, as people were persecuted when practicing new religions at the time? It wasn't until Christianity was sold to the Romans and endorsed by the leaders that "real" churches sprung up. And then Constantine took over that the persecution was flipped (where pagan churches/places of worship were outlawed, ransacked and pillaged by the Christians). So the idea of a church (as we know it) comes well after the old testament.
Hoddmimir
200
Oh most definitely. Churches are a much later addition. I'm just saying that since it is a Christian based class for kids, maybe it would be better to use churches somewhat outside of context then to use older more period accurate establishments? That's really more of a design decision on Faenon's part, but it just got me thinking about whether or not it is better to go with current beliefs and understandings or to include the older original outlooks as well. If you use old testament stories should you still have some of the harsher more violent old testament type gameplay for example? I mean they stoned people in the old testament but not as much anymore. (Depending on where in the world you are I suppose)
AABattery
732
It's suppose to teach the truth. Using churches instead of temples would be a lie, wouldn't it?
Assuming there's such athing as absoulte truth..
Anyway,INn this case, period-accurate would be better.
Hmm, Feanon, consider a frame story of newly-minted Christians attempting to survive persecution, and have each of the sub-sections be a tale told around the fire that then can be played through- like the Canterbury tales. That way you kind of get an enhanced perspective. Or for that matter an " Adventures from the Book of Virtues" like setup where the tales told reflect on the problems the characters are having.
Anyway,INn this case, period-accurate would be better.
Hmm, Feanon, consider a frame story of newly-minted Christians attempting to survive persecution, and have each of the sub-sections be a tale told around the fire that then can be played through- like the Canterbury tales. That way you kind of get an enhanced perspective. Or for that matter an " Adventures from the Book of Virtues" like setup where the tales told reflect on the problems the characters are having.
Strangeluv
2787
What kind of game would it be? A visual novel? If it has battles, can the game over screen write, "Turn the other cheek".
Unfortunately that doesn't always work. David slew Goliath, because he had to . . . I'm assuming he's covering both the Old and New testaments, mind you . .
NPC design - the Body of Christ
So your game is set around 2000 years ago when Christ was still alive?
Giving us the time period and the setting you want to cover in the game might help us give you suggestions.
mellytan
995
author=Hoddmimir
Save points can be churches. (You get saved.)
Oh hey, that's like how in Dragon Quest you have to Confess to save. So... "save anywhere" = Protestant, and "save only at save points" = Catholic? Haha...
Faenon:
Anyway, here are some of my ideas. Though, if you are only trying to teach kids literally just the facts about Christianity (e.g., the "bullet points" of Christian faith or Bible passages), as opposed to trying to impart to them Christian values, these suggestions may not be very helpful. In which case I apologize for the incoming wall of text :V
author=Faenon
Character creation - God's creation of us
Skill sets - God-given talents
Equipment - "the armour of God"
Quest of game - the Greatest Command
Setting of game - God's creation of the world
Supporting items - The Bible
Monster design - Evil
NPC design - the Body of Christ
The completed product - Salvation History
Any thoughts?
I like the 'armor of God' part. One time at my Sunday school we got to make legit breastplates and swords 8) Kids will really like becoming tougher and cooler. I think they should have to earn the armor pieces by obeying God's commandments or something.
In addition, I think quests where they must give up their items/gold to less fortunate people (or just give it up period) would be good. Accomplishments in gaming (especially in RPGs) emphasize getting more--more loot, more gold. In other words, most gameplay mechanics promote greed, kind of like how the world in general encourages kids to foster covetousness in real life, right? So, it would be good to somehow manage their inventory/gold in such a way that they learn more about the danger of focusing on material things. You could even somehow connect a gameplay mechanic to "storing up treasures in heaven" by doing good deeds; maybe they get more points or something, I dunno.
And on that note, there is also an emphasis in games on getting more power, to the point of becoming god-like or invincible. I would suggest that you have there should be points where the player cannot rely on his/her strength of beefy stats alone--the player must call on His strength to progress, to overcome evil, etc.
To hopefully further inspire you, here is a fantastic article from the (secular, btw) gaming blog 'The Artful Gamer' which looks at gaming's treatment of the hero, his/her (not-so-)spiritual quest, and (hypocritical) moral choices. Some choice quotes:
The hero's quest, which was originally a spiritual quest of the ilk I described earlier, has become literalized into a gradual accrual of power; in doing so the chances for spiritual development and transformation are almost completely squashed. Rather than going through a process of “giving up†oneself for a greater good, and later realizing that evil is always carried within oneself and not ‘out there in the world' â€" as we see in traditional piety, the modern RPG hero/heroine does the opposite â€" s/he overcomes evil by destroying it. I still go through the rituals of self-sacrifice and a whole lot of blood'n'sweat'n'tears, but they are all motivated toward making myself a demi-god.
In that light, traditional RPGs â€" not all of them mind you! â€" produce what I'd like to call the “hypocritical hero†or the “moralistic heroâ€. This is the hero that always gives out 10 gp to beggars on the street, knowing that s/he has 4500 gp resting comfortably in the larders. There is no real self-abasement this hero's acts; it is temporary inconveniencing under a mask of generosity. Sort of like the guy who lambasts anyone who doesn't drink Eco-Friendly coffee, and proceeds to drive his Hummer to work.
Honestly, I think anyone who plays games could benefit from reading this article; it will really make you think more in-depth about your questing and grinding, if you hadn't already. :3
Anyway, if your game's hero's motivations were an inversion of the greed that pervades almost all RPGs, I think that would be good for the kids. :)
tl;dr this game is relevant to my interests, please make a game page
especially because
author=Faenoncuteness overload
e.g. scanning in monsters they draw
Saya
30
author=mellytanThe hero's quest, which was originally a spiritual quest of the ilk I described earlier, has become literalized into a gradual accrual of power; in doing so the chances for spiritual development and transformation are almost completely squashed. Rather than going through a process of “giving up†oneself for a greater good, and later realizing that evil is always carried within oneself and not ‘out there in the world' â€" as we see in traditional piety, the modern RPG hero/heroine does the opposite â€" s/he overcomes evil by destroying it. I still go through the rituals of self-sacrifice and a whole lot of blood'n'sweat'n'tears, but they are all motivated toward making myself a demi-god.
In that light, traditional RPGs â€" not all of them mind you! â€" produce what I'd like to call the “hypocritical hero†or the “moralistic heroâ€. This is the hero that always gives out 10 gp to beggars on the street, knowing that s/he has 4500 gp resting comfortably in the larders. There is no real self-abasement this hero's acts; it is temporary inconveniencing under a mask of generosity. Sort of like the guy who lambasts anyone who doesn't drink Eco-Friendly coffee, and proceeds to drive his Hummer to work.
Honestly, I think anyone who plays games could benefit from reading this article; it will really make you think more in-depth about your questing and grinding, if you hadn't already. :3
This. This so much. I'm so happy you brought this up. Games these days are so static and predictable. It would be nice to see a deconstruction or subversion of the usual game. I think games should be experimented with, and they have a potential to be a wonderful, enjoyable educational tool.
Hmmm... as for ideas for contribution. Well, the word of God has been described as a sword, or as a weapon. Perhaps you have the option to "talk" your way out of conflict with a Biblical quotation?
Are you going to have a system like that of Fable, good deeds/bad deeds?
