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INTERESTING SECONDARY NPCS
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calunio
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CloseHow to make interesting secondary NPCs?
I mean... you have this town in your RPG, and it's full of random people. Some of them give you quests, some give you pieces of info, some are just... there. But how to make them interesting? How to make them likeable? How to make them worth talking to despite the usefulness aspect? Can you remember any interesting secondary NPCs in a game you've played?
I mean... you have this town in your RPG, and it's full of random people. Some of them give you quests, some give you pieces of info, some are just... there. But how to make them interesting? How to make them likeable? How to make them worth talking to despite the usefulness aspect? Can you remember any interesting secondary NPCs in a game you've played?
Ben_Random
1019
Any character can be interesting. Even a non player character. Try to think of a backstory to the NPC. What happened in his/her day. Go in to detail. Then, the NPC might say something about their lives to you. Just saying a part of there lives will make the player wonder.
Also, some fun NPC interactions to work with are:
-Random anger when the player approaches them.
-Surprised when the character see's the NPC
-Having the NPC mistake the character for someone else, or vise versa.
Also, some fun NPC interactions to work with are:
-Random anger when the player approaches them.
-Surprised when the character see's the NPC
-Having the NPC mistake the character for someone else, or vise versa.
There's actually an article (or multiple articles) on exactly this topic.
Basically: give them personality.
NPCs should not be randomly wandering; try to make them, say, go over to the woodpile, idle there for a minute, then walk back to their house, wait there for a minute, rinse repeat. So ostensibly this person is stacking wood or something. Even if they aren't sprited as carrying anything, and even if the player never sees them stop at the wood pile or their house, they'll recognize the pattern of movement as the NPC being engaged in some activity.
Memorable secondary NPC:
That kid in FF6 who constantly slides down the banister then runs back up the stairs
Basically: give them personality.
NPCs should not be randomly wandering; try to make them, say, go over to the woodpile, idle there for a minute, then walk back to their house, wait there for a minute, rinse repeat. So ostensibly this person is stacking wood or something. Even if they aren't sprited as carrying anything, and even if the player never sees them stop at the wood pile or their house, they'll recognize the pattern of movement as the NPC being engaged in some activity.
Memorable secondary NPC:
That kid in FF6 who constantly slides down the banister then runs back up the stairs
Shinan
4314
Secondary NPCs shouldn't be too interesting though. They're mostly there to make the world seem alive. Of course this means that what Versalia says is very true. Just think up a quick justification for why a character is where he is.
For example I actually rather like the NPCs in Stalker. The guys that just sit around a campfire and one has a guitar and they occasionally spout random jokes (in Russian so I actually don't know what they're saying but I assume they are joking).
Basically give every NPC a small task they're doing. Patroling, taking a break, smoking a fag, chatting with friends, walking somewhere etc. etc. It doesn't have to be very complicated just enough that the player sees that the world is a living one.
(and you also don't have to make every NPC talkable. At first I was horrified when I played Bloodlines and you couldn't talk to everyone. But it's almost standard these days and I really like it)
For example I actually rather like the NPCs in Stalker. The guys that just sit around a campfire and one has a guitar and they occasionally spout random jokes (in Russian so I actually don't know what they're saying but I assume they are joking).
Basically give every NPC a small task they're doing. Patroling, taking a break, smoking a fag, chatting with friends, walking somewhere etc. etc. It doesn't have to be very complicated just enough that the player sees that the world is a living one.
(and you also don't have to make every NPC talkable. At first I was horrified when I played Bloodlines and you couldn't talk to everyone. But it's almost standard these days and I really like it)
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Random townspeople are unsalvagable. You cannot make them worthwhile. You cannot make them fun or interesting or relevant or appropriate. Just remove them from your game.
If the NPC does not have any quest for you and does not sell anything, the player has no reason to talk to them. So why make them say anything at all? They shouldn't be able to be talked to. If you absolutely must include them for some reason, make them just walking by, but non-interactive. The player shouldn't be able to talk to them. Either put speech bubbles or exclamation marks or some other indicator over the heads of the NPCs that can be talked to, or just completely remove all the NPCs who can't be talked to.
Plenty of games take both of these approaches and I generally find them much more engaging than a traditional RPG town. I hate wasting my time talking to idiot townspeople when I'm playing a game. I want to get what I need from the town, and get back to the action as fast as possible.
If the NPC does not have any quest for you and does not sell anything, the player has no reason to talk to them. So why make them say anything at all? They shouldn't be able to be talked to. If you absolutely must include them for some reason, make them just walking by, but non-interactive. The player shouldn't be able to talk to them. Either put speech bubbles or exclamation marks or some other indicator over the heads of the NPCs that can be talked to, or just completely remove all the NPCs who can't be talked to.
Plenty of games take both of these approaches and I generally find them much more engaging than a traditional RPG town. I hate wasting my time talking to idiot townspeople when I'm playing a game. I want to get what I need from the town, and get back to the action as fast as possible.
But players get annoyed when you can't talk to NPCs you have lying around.
Personally I try to include little facts and tidbits on the world with my NPCs when they tell you something about their daily lives. It can enrich the story for those players who bother.
Personally I try to include little facts and tidbits on the world with my NPCs when they tell you something about their daily lives. It can enrich the story for those players who bother.
I think NPCs serve well as tools to create immersion to the world of the game. If there's any background information you'd like to get over to the player, which isn't still directly plot-concerning or doesn't have real connection to any of the plot characters, I think NPCs are a nice way to convey this information. Just try to dress the context of the message to match the location / role / status of the NPC.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=SorceressKyrstyThey... do?
But players get annoyed when you can't talk to NPCs you have lying around
Personally I get annoyed when you can. Because I never know if I'm expected to, maybe they give some vital information or a really useful item, and so I have no choice but to waste hours talking to every shitty worthless NPC in the game.
FF12 is the unplayable apex of this problem, where the starting town has over 200 people you can talk to, and most of the other towns are just as big. (And yet you can still only talk to about one in ten people in towns, holy crap.) Meanwhile, FF Tactics is a beautiful thing. But if the FF Tactics town system annoys you, then I'll accept systems like World of Warcraft where irrelevant people are simply noninteractive.
Hoddmimir
200
I guess I prefer a middle ground here. I would prefer to have a game that I believe is realistic. Regardless of whatever the world is like, people in towns have lives. I don't like the idea of NPCs just ignoring me when I talk to them. That said, I HATE It when NPCs have a long 17 page dissertation to tell you or when they have a somewhat long thing to say that they always say over and over again. If you are going to have them only say one thing every time you talk to them make it short. "I hate collecting firewood." That way if I decide to try and talk to them again to see if they say something different or because I forgot I already talked to them I don't have to wait for the entire message to go through again.
Provided it does not obviously and unnecessarily waste my time, I like talkative NPCs. I would agree with LockeZ though that having pointless NPCs can get old, so make most things at least mildly useful to know. A tip, a secret about where to find something, a clue as to where to go next... something. "I hate collecting firewood, but at least I sometimes find MAGIC HEALING IVY." Now I know something about him but also something useful. If I search the firewood maybe I will find some MAGIC HEALING IVY.
And towns don't need a thousand people to feel real or alive. Being able to see a couple at any one time will be fine. If you can see the whole town at once, then a half a dozen people outside should suffice. IMO.
Provided it does not obviously and unnecessarily waste my time, I like talkative NPCs. I would agree with LockeZ though that having pointless NPCs can get old, so make most things at least mildly useful to know. A tip, a secret about where to find something, a clue as to where to go next... something. "I hate collecting firewood, but at least I sometimes find MAGIC HEALING IVY." Now I know something about him but also something useful. If I search the firewood maybe I will find some MAGIC HEALING IVY.
And towns don't need a thousand people to feel real or alive. Being able to see a couple at any one time will be fine. If you can see the whole town at once, then a half a dozen people outside should suffice. IMO.
author=LockeZ
FF12 is the unplayable apex of this problem, where the starting town has over 200 people you can talk to, and most of the other towns are just as big. (And yet you can still only talk to about one in ten people in towns, holy crap.)
Meanwhile, FF Tactics is a beautiful thing
It prompts a ! over their head and displays their name if you can talk to them and constantly displays a (...) bubble even if you're not trying to, so you cannot POSSIBLY waste time trying to find out if you can talk to everybody or not. How is this an unplayable extreme
Furthermore, why should every NPC need to have a purpose at every possible moment? If my Lumberjack's quest isn't available yet, he can still stand there merrily chopping wood until it's available. It's even more jarring, IMO, if nobody is home and suddenly he is there when the quest is available. It strains the flow of the game and WSOD when NPCs magically appear only when they are necessary (you think, "oh hey a quest" instead of "oh hey someone I might want to talk to").
Oh, but I forgot, you don't WANT to talk to anybody who doesn't serve a strictly utilitarian goal ("the cave is to the east")
edit: and can I just point out that not a single city in FFT had any personality
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Sorry if I was unclear. The starting town has over 200 people you can talk to. This does not include all the non-interactive people, which admittedly make up the vast majority. There are well over a thousand citizens walking around, in total.
In your lumberjack example, that's fine, he has a purpose. If you're using a game system where his house is always visitable, and it doesn't make sense for him to not be home, then he should be home. I just am sick of the traditional RPG town where it's full of people who never have any purpose for the whole game.
Personally I enjoy systems like... I don't know, Suikoden: Tierkreis or similar systems, where the town gives you a list of locales you can visit, and more locales become available as you get reasons to go to them. That makes a lot more sense to me, because A) it shows the town is realistically sized and not just 15 people, and B) it doesn't ever leave the player feeling directionless, and C) it doesn't make sense that random people would be willing to talk to you if you don't have any real business with them. I mean, if some stranger starts talking to me on the street in real life, I assume they're high or drunk, and I get the hell away from them ASAP while trying not to make them angry.
In your lumberjack example, that's fine, he has a purpose. If you're using a game system where his house is always visitable, and it doesn't make sense for him to not be home, then he should be home. I just am sick of the traditional RPG town where it's full of people who never have any purpose for the whole game.
Personally I enjoy systems like... I don't know, Suikoden: Tierkreis or similar systems, where the town gives you a list of locales you can visit, and more locales become available as you get reasons to go to them. That makes a lot more sense to me, because A) it shows the town is realistically sized and not just 15 people, and B) it doesn't ever leave the player feeling directionless, and C) it doesn't make sense that random people would be willing to talk to you if you don't have any real business with them. I mean, if some stranger starts talking to me on the street in real life, I assume they're high or drunk, and I get the hell away from them ASAP while trying not to make them angry.
I'll admit FF12 has options overload in that category, but everybody is hand-crafted to enrich your gaming experience. Seeqs snort and laugh a lot; Viera have very carefully-wrought dialogue; etc. I personally enjoyed these touches and nobody forced me to talk to all of them; I just did from time to time. It really builds atmosphere. Radiata Stories was awful in every way, except they made the main city feel SO ALIVE that it was almost intoxicating. (And then you play further into the game.)
This is true though I prefer the style of Chekhov's Gun where it's all "oops we're cleaning up after the festival, this road is blocked for now" instead of "you can now access X part of town which you could not access before for no apparent reason"
Persona 2 comes to mind. Once you have a reason to go there, new districts of the city SUDDENLY appear ... where I should have been realistically able to walk down the block and be there
author=LockeZ
Personally I enjoy systems like... I don't know, Suikoden: Tierkreis or similar systems, where the town gives you a list of locales you can visit, and more locales become available as you get reasons to go to them.
This is true though I prefer the style of Chekhov's Gun where it's all "oops we're cleaning up after the festival, this road is blocked for now" instead of "you can now access X part of town which you could not access before for no apparent reason"
Persona 2 comes to mind. Once you have a reason to go there, new districts of the city SUDDENLY appear ... where I should have been realistically able to walk down the block and be there
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=VersaliaOh man, The World Ends With You did the same thing. And then tried to explain it with plot.
Persona 2 comes to mind. Once you have a reason to go there, new districts of the city SUDDENLY appear ... where I should have been realistically able to walk down the block and be there
author=LockeZauthor=VersaliaOh man, The World Ends With You did the same thing. And then tried to explain it with plot.
Persona 2 comes to mind. Once you have a reason to go there, new districts of the city SUDDENLY appear ... where I should have been realistically able to walk down the block and be there
Trying to explain it with plot is better than not trying to explain it at all.
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