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WHAT'S YOUR OPINION ON "CLICHED" GAMES?
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CloseI wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, Rose. I was just stating some stuff that was somewhat related.
I think the worst things I've ever seen were games that the maker saw a list of RPG cliches (there's a million lists out there), and decided to either use all of those cliches or none of them. Result? Horrible.
I'll be honest here. I hate dwarfs, elves, goblins, and those kinds of things. I like a old European setting, but when I think of it, I imagine stuff like this:
I've also seen pictures of Castles, Palaces and stuff, that's the kind of world I want to see (Hey, I don't travel much, forgive me for being poor!). Mediterranean stuff is great too. I went to Portugal on vacation once, it was very nice. I visited some monasteries, beaches, castles, palaces, and other places. Not stuff that I see over and over in an RPG that claims it's in a fantasy/medieval setting. But neither do I want a "realistic world with a big political story" either.
I don't care about the age of the character. My favorite is a girl in her early 20's, for obvious reasons. So what if busty characters that don't wear much are used often? That's the type of girl I want to see in the game. Or do you want the love interest to be a fat ugly girl? I don't. I've been talking a lot about Spirited Away recently, since I've watched it like 2 days ago or so. The main character is a little girl. You got to see her go from a whiny brat to someone that's more mature. I don't always feel this way with RPG characters. I want to see them grow beyond the stat growth. Also, I don't like dumb heros that win just because they outnumber the enemy or had better spells or whatever. I wish the hero would just outsmart the villains for once.
There are some things that are referred to as cliches, but removing them would hurt the gameplay. I don't want to go and read the list to find out which.
It's good to differenciate between common gameplay ideas, common factors, and between things that are just bad or outdated.
That being said, I tend not to care for the typical cliche RPGs. You have to balance both gameplay and story. I want a game that's fun to play, but also has a story that will interest me. It doesn't have to be a revolutionary story or gameplay. Good characters and fun gameplay will interest me. I don't want to wait for the ATB to fill up, press attack with all 4 characters, or spam the highest elemental attack to win. I don't want the game to be brutal and require you to level up by fighting 100's of battles in your area, while requiring save points. I'm impatient, and don't have very much free time these days. That's why I tend to like quest based games, it gives me a nice short term goal that I can take care of and accomplish before turning off the game.
For characters, I want them to seem more realistic, or at least funny. I don't want to see the typical JRPG style characters. I feel it's a good idea for the maker to design the characters around people they know in real life. I always thought an Azumanga Daioh RPG would be interesting. I like nice and happy worlds too, not dark and depressing. Bouncy music too, I want a nice soundtrack.
I don't care for things to be weird just for the sake of being different. Shivering Isles expansion of Oblivion did this, and I never liked it. Combination of a weird world, NPCs which were crazy, dungeons which were each longer than every Oblivion dungeon combined, and it just didn't appeal to me. Going back to Cyrodill was such a relief.
It's also why I like comedy slice of life animes like Haruhi, Yotsuba and Azumanga. I like the real world, but a happy bubblegummified version of it with humor involved. I don't really like serious stories. Sometimes I do, if they're done very well.
I'll be honest here. I hate dwarfs, elves, goblins, and those kinds of things. I like a old European setting, but when I think of it, I imagine stuff like this:
I've also seen pictures of Castles, Palaces and stuff, that's the kind of world I want to see (Hey, I don't travel much, forgive me for being poor!). Mediterranean stuff is great too. I went to Portugal on vacation once, it was very nice. I visited some monasteries, beaches, castles, palaces, and other places. Not stuff that I see over and over in an RPG that claims it's in a fantasy/medieval setting. But neither do I want a "realistic world with a big political story" either.
I don't care about the age of the character. My favorite is a girl in her early 20's, for obvious reasons. So what if busty characters that don't wear much are used often? That's the type of girl I want to see in the game. Or do you want the love interest to be a fat ugly girl? I don't. I've been talking a lot about Spirited Away recently, since I've watched it like 2 days ago or so. The main character is a little girl. You got to see her go from a whiny brat to someone that's more mature. I don't always feel this way with RPG characters. I want to see them grow beyond the stat growth. Also, I don't like dumb heros that win just because they outnumber the enemy or had better spells or whatever. I wish the hero would just outsmart the villains for once.
There are some things that are referred to as cliches, but removing them would hurt the gameplay. I don't want to go and read the list to find out which.
It's good to differenciate between common gameplay ideas, common factors, and between things that are just bad or outdated.
That being said, I tend not to care for the typical cliche RPGs. You have to balance both gameplay and story. I want a game that's fun to play, but also has a story that will interest me. It doesn't have to be a revolutionary story or gameplay. Good characters and fun gameplay will interest me. I don't want to wait for the ATB to fill up, press attack with all 4 characters, or spam the highest elemental attack to win. I don't want the game to be brutal and require you to level up by fighting 100's of battles in your area, while requiring save points. I'm impatient, and don't have very much free time these days. That's why I tend to like quest based games, it gives me a nice short term goal that I can take care of and accomplish before turning off the game.
For characters, I want them to seem more realistic, or at least funny. I don't want to see the typical JRPG style characters. I feel it's a good idea for the maker to design the characters around people they know in real life. I always thought an Azumanga Daioh RPG would be interesting. I like nice and happy worlds too, not dark and depressing. Bouncy music too, I want a nice soundtrack.
I don't care for things to be weird just for the sake of being different. Shivering Isles expansion of Oblivion did this, and I never liked it. Combination of a weird world, NPCs which were crazy, dungeons which were each longer than every Oblivion dungeon combined, and it just didn't appeal to me. Going back to Cyrodill was such a relief.
It's also why I like comedy slice of life animes like Haruhi, Yotsuba and Azumanga. I like the real world, but a happy bubblegummified version of it with humor involved. I don't really like serious stories. Sometimes I do, if they're done very well.
demondestiny
889
Yeah, that's the same with me. I quite like to base maps on scenery etc that i have seen when on holidays somewhere. In my game now i have designed this inn that is based on an olden style french setting. I get most of my inspiration from scenery.
RoseSkye
181
You like it because its basically the only thing you seen.
... I like soft pretzels, but, I cant say its my favorite food ever.. because I haven't ate everything in the world.. in fact I havent ate much besides the basics.. It may seem like alot of stuff but its like... possible a hundred or so different foods in my palette since birth.
I love Final Fantasy in all of its clicheness.. but I wont dare say that games like Demon Stone pales in epicness because its not following the code. . well its straying into a more D&D kinda roleplay.
I wont say anime sucks.. or say that spongebob isnt as entertaining. (I've cackled hard at a few episodes of it.. and Im like 21. A grown man watching spongebob and eating cereal.) I guarantee you, if a new type of RPG that tries not to go by the rules comes out and its storyline is beautiful? Chyeah I'll play it.. and probably support it if I like it.
... I like soft pretzels, but, I cant say its my favorite food ever.. because I haven't ate everything in the world.. in fact I havent ate much besides the basics.. It may seem like alot of stuff but its like... possible a hundred or so different foods in my palette since birth.
I love Final Fantasy in all of its clicheness.. but I wont dare say that games like Demon Stone pales in epicness because its not following the code. . well its straying into a more D&D kinda roleplay.
I wont say anime sucks.. or say that spongebob isnt as entertaining. (I've cackled hard at a few episodes of it.. and Im like 21. A grown man watching spongebob and eating cereal.) I guarantee you, if a new type of RPG that tries not to go by the rules comes out and its storyline is beautiful? Chyeah I'll play it.. and probably support it if I like it.
maladroithim
1495
author=Ocean link=topic=906.msg12828#msg12828 date=1208848962
So what if busty characters that don't wear much are used often? That's the type of girl I want to see in the game. Or do you want the love interest to be a fat ugly girl? I don't.
Jesus man there are so many things wrong with this. There are basic ideas in film and literature that are well-established that you cannot have sexy and meaningful at the same time. If you do, it is only in rape scenes, and if you find those sexy you are a sociopath.
My favorite example is Lost Odyssey and the character of Ming. I could write about her all day, but basically my problems with her stem from her like fifteen visible thongs (why is she wearing so many pair of underwear????) and her enormous disgusting pale boobs (that are really veiny and extra gross). She is completely disgusting. She is a walking vagina and I guess if you like DDDDDD breasts you might like to look at her and I guess that's fine, but when the game tries to bill her as a meaningful character I just can't really buy it. I prefer to keep my pornography and my video games separate. When the game has her in a scene and is like hey this is serious story business this is real art guys, but then you see her fucking boobs, you're kind of left in this awkward place between sexy and meaningful. You can't have both at the same time and if you think you can you are kidding yourself.
You have a good point, Him, but there is a fine line involved with avoiding sexy attributes for the sake of having female characters taken seriously.
Some people go so far as to make characters nearly androgynous. Shorter men with pretty faces and hair. To that I say, YUCK. If someone's into the whole bishounen thing, that's fine, just sayin' is all.
Women are fun to draw. They have amazing shapely bodies that allow for a huge variety of outfits and styles... from scantily clad dancer types, to elegant princesses, to heavily armored paladiny types. I always feature and exaggerate the shape of a woman's body when making graphics for female characters, it seperates them from male characters and is attractive... which can easily be done without becoming too overtly sexual.
Some people go so far as to make characters nearly androgynous. Shorter men with pretty faces and hair. To that I say, YUCK. If someone's into the whole bishounen thing, that's fine, just sayin' is all.
Women are fun to draw. They have amazing shapely bodies that allow for a huge variety of outfits and styles... from scantily clad dancer types, to elegant princesses, to heavily armored paladiny types. I always feature and exaggerate the shape of a woman's body when making graphics for female characters, it seperates them from male characters and is attractive... which can easily be done without becoming too overtly sexual.
maladroithim
1495
author=harmonic link=topic=906.msg12859#msg12859 date=1208881946
Women are fun to draw. They have amazing shapely bodies that allow for a huge variety of outfits and styles... from scantily clad dancer types, to elegant princesses, to heavily armored paladiny types. I always feature and exaggerate the shape of a woman's body when making graphics for female characters, it seperates them from male characters and is attractive... which can easily be done without becoming too overtly sexual.
Well yeah there is a difference between a heroine who happens to be beautiful and a sex symbol. To revisit Lost Odyssey, Seth is an example of a woman who is a heroine that happens to be pretty and have an attractive figure but is not necessarily a sex symbol.
author=brandonabley link=topic=906.msg12861#msg12861 date=1208882333author=harmonic link=topic=906.msg12859#msg12859 date=1208881946
Women are fun to draw. They have amazing shapely bodies that allow for a huge variety of outfits and styles... from scantily clad dancer types, to elegant princesses, to heavily armored paladiny types. I always feature and exaggerate the shape of a woman's body when making graphics for female characters, it seperates them from male characters and is attractive... which can easily be done without becoming too overtly sexual.
Well yeah there is a difference between a heroine who happens to be beautiful and a sex symbol. To revisit Lost Odyssey, Seth is an example of a women who is a heroine that happens to be pretty and have an attractive figure but is not necessarily a sex symbol.
I'd say something about this, but you can probably tell what my opinion is based on the stuff I draw. =D
Shifting gears a little bit...
I don't think players can articulate what they really want/enjoy in video games. They subconsciously know exactly what they want. They want fun, satisfaction. Fun and satisfaction can be a variety of things for different people.
But way, way too often I hear "This game rocks. It doesn't have your typical RPG stuff like good versus evil. It also goes against gender stereotypes. Also, I like how the hero isn't dark, mysterious, with dead parents. Therefore, your game rocks."
Okay, so Mr. Everyplayer... you don't like Good versus Evil. What is the source of the conflict in the game?
Man versus Self?! Yeah right. (That could easily be construed as "emo" which is another automatically hated cliche.)
What does that leave? Without good versus evil, you basically cancel the possibility of a storyline that's simple enough for the Everyman to digest in an RPG. Sure there are other things the hero could be doing, like searching for treasure, love, or fame. But THAT is the only premise that's allowed?
No, Mr. Everyplayer, you want to kill bad guys. You want to save the chick and get the loot. Protesting against "cliche" things like WHY IS THE HERO A GOOD GUY is mega-tarded.
I don't think players can articulate what they really want/enjoy in video games. They subconsciously know exactly what they want. They want fun, satisfaction. Fun and satisfaction can be a variety of things for different people.
But way, way too often I hear "This game rocks. It doesn't have your typical RPG stuff like good versus evil. It also goes against gender stereotypes. Also, I like how the hero isn't dark, mysterious, with dead parents. Therefore, your game rocks."
Okay, so Mr. Everyplayer... you don't like Good versus Evil. What is the source of the conflict in the game?
Man versus Self?! Yeah right. (That could easily be construed as "emo" which is another automatically hated cliche.)
What does that leave? Without good versus evil, you basically cancel the possibility of a storyline that's simple enough for the Everyman to digest in an RPG. Sure there are other things the hero could be doing, like searching for treasure, love, or fame. But THAT is the only premise that's allowed?
No, Mr. Everyplayer, you want to kill bad guys. You want to save the chick and get the loot. Protesting against "cliche" things like WHY IS THE HERO A GOOD GUY is mega-tarded.
author=brandonabley link=topic=906.msg12856#msg12856 date=1208881189I do want the girls to be meaningful. For the female characters in my games, I tend to dress them up in normal clothes. Well, maybe I'm weird and I don't really think less of the girl for wearing less. The other characters in the game don't ever respond to what the character is wearing anyway. I could make a character dressed up in a bikini, have them go to the Palace, and no one will say anything about it. They won't kick me out for not dressing properly, no NPC is going to follow me or stare at me.
Jesus man there are so many things wrong with this. There are basic ideas in film and literature that are well-established that you cannot have sexy and meaningful at the same time. If you do, it is only in rape scenes, and if you find those sexy you are a sociopath.
My favorite example is Lost Odyssey and the character of Ming. I could write about her all day, but basically my problems with her stem from her like fifteen visible thongs (why is she wearing so many pair of underwear????) and her enormous disgusting pale boobs (that are really veiny and extra gross). She is completely disgusting. She is a walking vagina and I guess if you like DDDDDD breasts you might like to look at her and I guess that's fine, but when the game tries to bill her as a meaningful character I just can't really buy it. I prefer to keep my pornography and my video games separate. When the game has her in a scene and is like hey this is serious story business this is real art guys, but then you see her fucking boobs, you're kind of left in this awkward place between sexy and meaningful. You can't have both at the same time and if you think you can you are kidding yourself.
And no, I don't want the girl there to only be a sex symbol, nor do I expect a girl who has a shy personality to wear something really sexy.
And besides, I said I don't like overly serious stories.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_(narrative)
This is related to what harm is referring to.
Anyway.
People often seem to miss what a cliché actually is. A cliché is NOT a certain set of pre-defined character stereotypes and plot devices (brave knight saving a princess from a castle). Clichés vary depending on the time period and society, and what is a common cliché today might be an ingenious plot device ten, twenty, fifty, one hundred years from now.
RPGs are still a pretty lowbrow medium for storytelling. It's not like there's really a game story equivalent to a Mark Twain, Steinbeck or Faulkner novel. Of course, neither should there be, because the only game I've seen take on the Grapes of Wrath is Oregon Trail. And let's admit it, your cattle catching dyslexia or herpes or whatever for the fiftieth time only causes so much emotional trauma. Epic tactics games like Tactics Ogre or Final Fantasy Tactics don't even have a leg to stand on when compared to novels like War and Peace and the more related A Song of Ice and Fire. Really, RPGs should focus foremost on making the story entertaining - there's many ways to do this, and they really shouldn't be limited by the 'clichés suck' crowd, because they do, after all, serve a purpose.
Having said all that, the real clichés in the RPG Maker community are not typical of RPGs. We've seen princesses being saved by brave knights in console RPGs (like twenty years ago), sure, but how many examples can you think of that are recent in the RPG Maker community? How many stereotypical dark lords conquering the realm? Not many when compared to the great number of RPG Maker games that tout a 'deep story with loads of religious mumbo jumbo' and the 'dark and quiet but secretly kind and loving hero that is existentially confused'.
We are a community about making fun games that other people can play - people don't want to read your master's thesis on the characteristics of God in a video game.
P.S. I'll be writing articles on storytelling soon.
This is related to what harm is referring to.
Anyway.
People often seem to miss what a cliché actually is. A cliché is NOT a certain set of pre-defined character stereotypes and plot devices (brave knight saving a princess from a castle). Clichés vary depending on the time period and society, and what is a common cliché today might be an ingenious plot device ten, twenty, fifty, one hundred years from now.
RPGs are still a pretty lowbrow medium for storytelling. It's not like there's really a game story equivalent to a Mark Twain, Steinbeck or Faulkner novel. Of course, neither should there be, because the only game I've seen take on the Grapes of Wrath is Oregon Trail. And let's admit it, your cattle catching dyslexia or herpes or whatever for the fiftieth time only causes so much emotional trauma. Epic tactics games like Tactics Ogre or Final Fantasy Tactics don't even have a leg to stand on when compared to novels like War and Peace and the more related A Song of Ice and Fire. Really, RPGs should focus foremost on making the story entertaining - there's many ways to do this, and they really shouldn't be limited by the 'clichés suck' crowd, because they do, after all, serve a purpose.
Having said all that, the real clichés in the RPG Maker community are not typical of RPGs. We've seen princesses being saved by brave knights in console RPGs (like twenty years ago), sure, but how many examples can you think of that are recent in the RPG Maker community? How many stereotypical dark lords conquering the realm? Not many when compared to the great number of RPG Maker games that tout a 'deep story with loads of religious mumbo jumbo' and the 'dark and quiet but secretly kind and loving hero that is existentially confused'.
We are a community about making fun games that other people can play - people don't want to read your master's thesis on the characteristics of God in a video game.
P.S. I'll be writing articles on storytelling soon.
RoseSkye
181
author=brandonabley link=topic=906.msg12856#msg12856 date=1208881189author=Ocean link=topic=906.msg12828#msg12828 date=1208848962
So what if busty characters that don't wear much are used often? That's the type of girl I want to see in the game. Or do you want the love interest to be a fat ugly girl? I don't.
Jesus man there are so many things wrong with this. There are basic ideas in film and literature that are well-established that you cannot have sexy and meaningful at the same time. If you do, it is only in rape scenes, and if you find those sexy you are a sociopath.
My favorite example is Lost Odyssey and the character of Ming. I could write about her all day, but basically my problems with her stem from her like fifteen visible thongs (why is she wearing so many pair of underwear????) and her enormous disgusting pale boobs (that are really veiny and extra gross). She is completely disgusting. She is a walking vagina and I guess if you like DDDDDD breasts you might like to look at her and I guess that's fine, but when the game tries to bill her as a meaningful character I just can't really buy it. I prefer to keep my pornography and my video games separate. When the game has her in a scene and is like hey this is serious story business this is real art guys, but then you see her fucking boobs, you're kind of left in this awkward place between sexy and meaningful. You can't have both at the same time and if you think you can you are kidding yourself.
I lol'd.
Yet you think Ming has big breasts? Dear god man she's barely a C.
I've seen big boobs.. PAST D. . and there are huger breasts out there.
maladroithim
1495
author=RoseSkye link=topic=906.msg12951#msg12951 date=1208919561
I lol'd.
Yet you think Ming has big breasts? Dear god man she's barely a C.
I've seen big boobs.. PAST D. . and there are huger breasts out there.
Okay man but I literally vomited so there is definitely something wrong there.
RoseSkye
181
author=brandonabley link=topic=906.msg12953#msg12953 date=1208920214author=RoseSkye link=topic=906.msg12951#msg12951 date=1208919561
I lol'd.
Yet you think Ming has big breasts? Dear god man she's barely a C.
I've seen big boobs.. PAST D. . and there are huger breasts out there.
Okay man but I literally vomited so there is definitely something wrong there.
Fan service, its serious business.. trust me its in many games.. not only eastern. Men love women with sexy stuff.. its been around since dungeons and dragons. Lovely, supple breasts.. hair of honey mead.. skin of silk and velvet, eyes of the purest sapphire.
Lovely, supple breasts.. hair of honey mead.. skin of silk and velvet, eyes of the purest sapphire.
That sounds just ... disturbing.
Shadowtext
120
author=brandonabley link=topic=906.msg12856#msg12856 date=1208881189I know you've sort of already covered this with harmonic, but man, this sort of thinking would only come from a country where everyone's descended from a bunch of tight-assed puritans.author=Ocean link=topic=906.msg12828#msg12828 date=1208848962
So what if busty characters that don't wear much are used often? That's the type of girl I want to see in the game. Or do you want the love interest to be a fat ugly girl? I don't.
Jesus man there are so many things wrong with this. There are basic ideas in film and literature that are well-established that you cannot have sexy and meaningful at the same time. If you do, it is only in rape scenes, and if you find those sexy you are a sociopath.
You can't have explicit and meaningful at the same time maybe, (even then, I'd be hesitant of saying it's impossible, but I'll admit it's pretty darned unlikely), but your argument here seem to be confusing "sexy" with "trashy."
You only have to look at the art of the old masters to prove that sexy and meaningful can coexist. Look at basically any figure drawing or sculpture by a good artist like Michelangelo or Rembrandt. David is a pretty classic example. People who deny the sexuality of these works just because they're art are missing the point as much as people who insist they be covered up are.
So yeah. Don't confuse "sexy" and "whorish." There are plenty of situations where you can have a sexy scene that also has a lot of meaning behind it. Hell, if nothing else commenting on sex could be the meaning. Heck, just to screw with Puritan values a little more, how many of you have read The Song of Solomon? I haven't personally, but this was essentially an erotic poem considered significant enough to be included in the canon of Jewish belief. It's generally interpreted as being an allegory for God's love for the Hebrews, or in Christian tradition, Jesus's love for the church, but looked at purely on the literal level, it's a song about love and sexuality between a married couple. Whether or not any individual sees meaning in that is obviously up to the individual, but clearly there's a significant number of people who see meaning in it.
That said, I'm not defending things like putting girls in stripperrific costumes or giving them unrealistic body proportions solely to titilate. I'm just saying not to rule out all sexuality just because a lot of people use it in an ugly way.
demondestiny
889
author=RoseSkye link=topic=906.msg12951#msg12951 date=1208919561author=brandonabley link=topic=906.msg12856#msg12856 date=1208881189author=Ocean link=topic=906.msg12828#msg12828 date=1208848962
So what if busty characters that don't wear much are used often? That's the type of girl I want to see in the game. Or do you want the love interest to be a fat ugly girl? I don't.
Jesus man there are so many things wrong with this. There are basic ideas in film and literature that are well-established that you cannot have sexy and meaningful at the same time. If you do, it is only in rape scenes, and if you find those sexy you are a sociopath.
My favorite example is Lost Odyssey and the character of Ming. I could write about her all day, but basically my problems with her stem from her like fifteen visible thongs (why is she wearing so many pair of underwear????) and her enormous disgusting pale boobs (that are really veiny and extra gross). She is completely disgusting. She is a walking vagina and I guess if you like DDDDDD breasts you might like to look at her and I guess that's fine, but when the game tries to bill her as a meaningful character I just can't really buy it. I prefer to keep my pornography and my video games separate. When the game has her in a scene and is like hey this is serious story business this is real art guys, but then you see her fucking boobs, you're kind of left in this awkward place between sexy and meaningful. You can't have both at the same time and if you think you can you are kidding yourself.
I lol'd.
Yet you think Ming has big breasts? Dear god man she's barely a C.
I've seen big boobs.. PAST D. . and there are huger breasts out there.
dude, that's just stupid. If you are proud just because of this then there is something wrong with you. The same thing happened with Laxius power as well with one of the characters.
RoseSkye
181
author=demondestiny link=topic=906.msg12963#msg12963 date=1208925519author=RoseSkye link=topic=906.msg12951#msg12951 date=1208919561author=brandonabley link=topic=906.msg12856#msg12856 date=1208881189author=Ocean link=topic=906.msg12828#msg12828 date=1208848962
So what if busty characters that don't wear much are used often? That's the type of girl I want to see in the game. Or do you want the love interest to be a fat ugly girl? I don't.
Jesus man there are so many things wrong with this. There are basic ideas in film and literature that are well-established that you cannot have sexy and meaningful at the same time. If you do, it is only in rape scenes, and if you find those sexy you are a sociopath.
My favorite example is Lost Odyssey and the character of Ming. I could write about her all day, but basically my problems with her stem from her like fifteen visible thongs (why is she wearing so many pair of underwear????) and her enormous disgusting pale boobs (that are really veiny and extra gross). She is completely disgusting. She is a walking vagina and I guess if you like DDDDDD breasts you might like to look at her and I guess that's fine, but when the game tries to bill her as a meaningful character I just can't really buy it. I prefer to keep my pornography and my video games separate. When the game has her in a scene and is like hey this is serious story business this is real art guys, but then you see her fucking boobs, you're kind of left in this awkward place between sexy and meaningful. You can't have both at the same time and if you think you can you are kidding yourself.
I lol'd.
Yet you think Ming has big breasts? Dear god man she's barely a C.
I've seen big boobs.. PAST D. . and there are huger breasts out there.
dude, that's just stupid. If you are proud just because of this then there is something wrong with you. The same thing happened with Laxius power as well with one of the characters.
Jeez, taking my words out of context.
What I said - I've seen bigger breast.
What you and your dirty mind cooked up - Lol Boobs.
What I meant - I've seen girls with bigger breast by far.
What you and your dirty mind interpreted by my statement - Lol boobs and sex.
What I was trying to imply - Her breast arent that big, compared to the D-F size and higher. In fact breast that size in the U.S. is pretty much everyday thing. . I rarely see a girl with smaller breast than C.
What you took from the statement - Lol Boobs sex and nudity, the guy is just as sick as I am.
author=Veridianne link=topic=906.msg12958#msg12958 date=1208921375Lovely, supple breasts.. hair of honey mead.. skin of silk and velvet, eyes of the purest sapphire.
That sounds just ... disturbing.
Well if you ever played D&D or LARP you'd know that we describe everything, pretty much in medieval tongue as well.
Shinan
4314
I skimmed through the topic. I saw it was three pages and thought. No way this topic is on topic anymore and I tend to not want to throw myself into those topics. But here I am. If I got this right this is still almost a bit about clichés but also the portrayal of women and sexiness in... games?
The best part by far is this though:
But on cliché games. The initial gut reaction is to say "I don't mind them" but when I thought about it that is not really all that true. Of course good games can compensate by having really awesome gameplay where you don't really care about the fact that you are saving a princess that happens to be in another castle or slaying the Evil Lord of Evil while throwing out one-liners that would make a rock cringe. Awesome gameplay can beat all of that.
Of course it helps a lot if it isn't there. It's always hard to play a game that takes itself so seriously while falling into every pit on the way.
"I'm a dark and brooding vampire". No shit.
I can easily enjoy games that have a fun time while being a bit of a cliché though.
"I'm a dark and brooding vampire that really, really enjoys ripping hearts out of people because I'm awesome like that." I can dig.
Basically. Someone said in this thread as I was skimming. You need a bit of Style. Max Payne is a classic cliché story about the cop that is disillusioned. But it's done with enough style and reference to what inspired it that it's still enjoyable (and the gameplay is great too)
On the other hand we have the "random FPS that isn't famous" where you take the role of a random space soldier with huge arsenals and kick alien and human butt. That's as low as you get without some style and attitude. Most blockbusters tend to get the style and attitude though. But there's those 5/10 FPSes all over the market that just don't.
The best part by far is this though:
author=RoseSkye link=topic=906.msg12968#msg12968 date=1208930453There are few stereotypes as well ingrained as the 14-year old roleplayer in the basement wearing a cloak (ie LARPing) and trying to talk like an Elven lord from the crappy fantasy novels they've read.
Well if you ever played D&D or LARP you'd know that we describe everything, pretty much in medieval tongue as well.
But on cliché games. The initial gut reaction is to say "I don't mind them" but when I thought about it that is not really all that true. Of course good games can compensate by having really awesome gameplay where you don't really care about the fact that you are saving a princess that happens to be in another castle or slaying the Evil Lord of Evil while throwing out one-liners that would make a rock cringe. Awesome gameplay can beat all of that.
Of course it helps a lot if it isn't there. It's always hard to play a game that takes itself so seriously while falling into every pit on the way.
"I'm a dark and brooding vampire". No shit.
I can easily enjoy games that have a fun time while being a bit of a cliché though.
"I'm a dark and brooding vampire that really, really enjoys ripping hearts out of people because I'm awesome like that." I can dig.
Basically. Someone said in this thread as I was skimming. You need a bit of Style. Max Payne is a classic cliché story about the cop that is disillusioned. But it's done with enough style and reference to what inspired it that it's still enjoyable (and the gameplay is great too)
On the other hand we have the "random FPS that isn't famous" where you take the role of a random space soldier with huge arsenals and kick alien and human butt. That's as low as you get without some style and attitude. Most blockbusters tend to get the style and attitude though. But there's those 5/10 FPSes all over the market that just don't.
demondestiny
889
author=Shinan link=topic=906.msg12975#msg12975 date=1208936571
I skimmed through the topic. I saw it was three pages and thought. No way this topic is on topic anymore and I tend to not want to throw myself into those topics.
Nah, most of these topics don't stick to the topic anymore. Half of the first page is usually sticking with the topic and then...... You know what i mean. ;D
