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I Hate RMVX

  • calunio
  • 02/01/2011 03:04 PM
  • 21164 views
I've always made games in RM2k3. My next big game will be on RMVX. For my Shinan's weird contest entry, I was divided between both.

RMVX Pros:
Better graphics;
Larger charsets;
Warming up for my next project;

RM2k3 Pros:
I'm familiar with it. Actually, I'm the wizard of rm2k3. I can do anything I want with events.

But I decided to go with VX because of the larger characters. The dancers wouldn't have looked good in 24x32. Probably not a good idea planning on making a game with an original system, custom graphics WHILE learning a new engine.

But hey, everyone always says that:

RMVX can do everything RM2k3 does + scripts.

LIES

Here's my first experience with VX.

First thing I did was the sprites. Dancers were 60x80, the little devil is 85x85. Nice being able to sprite freely.

Then I made the Satan part. I wanted an overlay. I used the show picture command, but the picture followed my character. I looked for a "picture scrolls with map" option, but there was none. Then I found out I needed a SCRIPT for it, because I guess keeping that checkbox would be too much to ask. Nessiah gave me the script.

For the same Satan scene, I wanted to make him open his eyes. Satan is a panorama. So I looked for a "change panorama" thing somewhere. I actually didn't look, cause I learned earlier VX doesn't do that either. But I solved this easier with pictures.

On a brigther note, I liked not losing colors on my backgrounds. Something like this on 2k3 would have looked much uglier:



Next step was the title screen. I knew how to modify the title image. Changing scripts. But what I wanted to do was remove the "Continue" option from the title screen. I messed up with the Scene_Title script a lot, but always getting buggy results. I finally did that but the Shutdown option is gray. I wasn't able to fix that. I also wasn't able to change the words "New Game" and "Shutdown". I know it's possible, I just didn't find out how.

One thing I learned about VX is self-switches. They're good for not stacking your switch list with stuff you'll only use once.

I had another problem with showing overlays. In rm2k3, I usually show overlays making a parallel event and using the commands:

Show picture;
Erase event;

With this, you don't see the picture being shown... when you get to the map, the picture is already there, cause the event acts immediately. In VX, there was a tiny yet horrendous lag that made me teleport to the map with no overlay, and after a few seconds the overlay appeared. But I was able to fix that with fade-ins and fade-outs.

People complain about the mapping in VX being complicated... but since I only use panoramas, I didn't have problems with that. The good thing about VX is that you can have panoramas of any size.

Another thing I missed was the option "wait until key is pressed". It would be good to show the introductory screens. I had to replace that with invisible events surrounding the hero char. A bit annoying.

Now comes the gruesome part. This is a scored game, your goal is to make a high score. Marvel Brothel was like that, the score is visible at the top of the screen at all times:



It's money, actually.
Making something like that in 2k3 is hell. You need one picture for each digit (0-9), a code to separate a big number into digits, and a lot of trial-and-error to correctly place the numbers on the screen. Something like that:



It goes way down...

But hey, this is VX, right? I could do this a lot easier with scripts.

Well, yes I could. But finding a script to show a g**d*** number of the screen wasn't that easy. Liberty found me one similar and edited it to suit my needs. But I needed extra help from the Help Forum to change the font. And the final result doesn't look that awesome.

Finally a big surprise: VX can't do math! There was a place in the code that basically had something like:

30 * 1 = 1

I checked the code many many times, but nothing seemed to be wrong. Only the math was wrong. People on irc told me it's an actual bug in RMVX. Really... math? Well, I fixed it changing 30 * 1 to 1 * 30. It worked. No idea why.

Finally, an issue with VX that had an actual impact on the game. There's no "wait until key is pressed" for the key input thing. If you press A, it's like pressing AAAAAAAAA. It completely messed the mechanics of my game (if you played it, you know what I mean). My solution was to add a wait command before the key input. The downside is that the player has to hold a key instead of just pressing it. Makes the whole thing a lot less smooth. There's probably a script for it too, but... 3 days.

I thought making VX games run without the RTP was easier because of the game compress thing. I added all RTP files I used to my folders, and then I compressed the game. If I checked "add RTP files" it added ALL files, including the ones I wasn't using. Changed my game size from 27MB to 69MB. No thanks. If I didn't check this option, the game would ask for the RTP to run. My solution was... to delete all useless RTP files from the RTP folders, and check the "add RTP" option. It probably adds some system files too. Well, at least it worked.

Bottom line... yeah, VX is much better than 2k3, but the transition is not as smooth as it should be. You people who tell 2k3 users to switch to VX... don't. RM2k3 is way easier to use, period.

PS: Thanks to the people on #rpgmaker.net for helping me all the way and putting up with my drama. :D

Posts

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If I'd use RMVX it would still look like a RM2k3 game... because I could never make those premium resources with such a high amount of colors.
Or it would be one more VX RTP game...

So for me I see no reason to switch since Windows 7 supports RM2k/3 games again.
I removed my template project (aka some general use scripts mostly to improve what RMVX is lacking, like a way to get around dumb skill limits, use other chipsets+passability, panorama control, and more) when I found Yanfly's much better script packages.
I think I asked GRS to make a "template project" a while back, and he did, and its here on RMN. I don't think it really took off though!

As for these days, I would personally start with the Melody template as a base for making any new game in VX. Yanfly (a dude!) has already fixed up a lot of the "bugs" in VX, plus added a configurable battle system and other goodies.
Puddor
if squallbutts was a misao category i'd win every damn year
5702
Can I just say that I think moving from ANY MAKER TO ANOTHER is difficult. I started with RMXP when I was around 13, nearly five years ago now, and I've just started using RMVX and I have no idea what the f**k I'm doing. Mainly map-wise, but also importing sprites, the way tilesets work, the new database functions, etc.

It's like anything new- it takes time to adjust and doing it in a weekend is difficult. I'd say that it probably is a good idea to switch, but it takes practice and just getting used to the maker.
author=alterego
author=Archeia_Nessiah
P.s. Scripting requires/uses logic, what difference does it make from event "programming"?
That's a rather silly question, isn't it? (at least from my perspective) the difference is that eventing is easier and more intuitive than scripting. With events there is a lot of room for trial an error, and you can often see what you're doing wrong, "oh, that event is doing this instead of that, If I click that check-box I will fix it". With scripts you have to be absolute certain of what you're doing because even the tiniest mistake doesn't even let you run the game "syntax error in line 666: you're only missing a coma but I won't tell you were to put it, hahaha!"


I do C++ programming in school and I use the eventing knowledge I got from rm2k3 to it. It's not different at all from what I saw since they pretty much use the same "language" (albeit worded differently, but even so Ruby's language is easy to interpret if you look at the helpfile too). Hell I'll even say it's faster since you're typing it all at light speed and copy pasting like there's no tomorrow.

But for RMVX fixes, all you need I believe is the variable fix. Woratana had a few fixes but they're nothing that major. After that save the "data" file from that project and then paste it in the RTP data folder so that it's always there.

OR

go to pockethouse.com, download melody and grab the yanfly fix script since all of it are in there anyway or this: http://wiki.pockethouse.com/index.php?title=Core_Fixes_and_Upgrades =w=)b
author=Archeia_Nessiah
P.s. Scripting requires/uses logic, what difference does it make from event "programming"?

That's a rather silly question, isn't it? (at least from my perspective) the difference is that eventing is easier and more intuitive than scripting. With events there is a lot of room for trial an error, and you can often see what you're doing wrong, "oh, that event is doing this instead of that, If I click that check-box I will fix it". With scripts you have to be absolute certain of what you're doing because even the tiniest mistake doesn't even let you run the game "syntax error in line 666: you're only missing a coma but I won't tell you were to put it, hahaha!"
_
Anyway, facetiousness aside... this is probably not the best place to ask, but regarding the number of fixes needed and missing things in RmVX , I was wondering if there is some kind of "template project" with all those things included; I've seen some of them spread all over the internet, but I'm afraid of being too dumb to even paste them properly together in a single game myself.
@Josephseraph you're only basing this on your own limitations. Doesn't mean the engine is crap or lesser or THAT hard to use than 2k3. If there's a will there's way!

P.s. Scripting requires/uses logic, what difference does it make from event "programming"?
author=Creation
Outside from Aveyond i haven't heard of any of rpg makers game actually selling.
Ever heard of Laxius Power? Damien, the author, makes quite a bit of money selling his games.




More specifically, the Laxius Force series.

But I think all these commercial games' success wouldn't have happened if it hadn't been for the inspiration of Aveyond.

Creation
An avid lover of Heartache 101
1446
Outside from Aveyond i haven't heard of any of rpg makers game actually selling.

Ever heard of Laxius Power? Damien, the author, makes quite a bit of money selling his games.





author=Bandito
Outside from Aveyond i haven't heard of any of rpg makers game actually selling.


Eternal Eden (and most probably the newly announced EE: Ecclesia), Deadly Sin 1 and 2, Rainblood.
Selling is a pretty strong word. Offering their full game for free except with a two bit timer that will close the game after an hour but can be bypassed with about two seconds of work but hoping nobody does and instead offer to exchange money to stop the timer is a more accurate description.

This sums up every commercial RPG Maker game demo I've downloaded. It's a hilarious trainwreck of incompetence.
Outside from Aveyond i haven't heard of any of rpg makers game actually selling.
harmonic
It's like toothpicks against a tank
4142
The vast, vast, vast majority of "those commercial VX games" do not make money. There is one franchise that does really well, and that's Aveyond. And it does well because of excellent marketing, branding, community loyalty, and catering to a far different crowd than RM community-goers. It should be worth noting that Aveyond games all use substantial budgets (as far as indie RM games go) and contain mostly unique resources. The RTP games do not fare well.
Magi
Resident Terrapin
1028
we like to call that the "aveyond effect"
But you actually got to learn the language, and then again...
It's something that, if you learn, you'll be able to use it only on RMVX, and on nothing else. :/
So, to make a mildly decent game, I've got to learn scripting, so I can do the smallest of things...
(unless of course you're craze and is able to make those awesome rtpsy games.)
In the same way, in 2k3 there's a much simpler way to most of these stuff, and eventing involves logics you'll be using in all the more places (much the same as learning RMVX scripting - but with much less time involved)

I dunno, I think it's some sort of passion for 2k3.
I see RMVX has great potential, but you can't just simply sprite, draw, write the story and the dialogue, and start putting everything in piece, because it'll look shabby. I mean, you take far longer on a VX game than on a 2k3 one, and you'll eventually grow tired of it, or something. 2k3 is quick and hasty, and I dunno, opening 2k3 turns me on and on and on and I don't want to stop rming. I think it's some sort of passion that makes people hate me LOL. Also I'm noo naive sorry.

I'll use VX after I improve my drawing / spriting skills, and gat better at writing something down, and after I start really qworking so I can pay someone to do the heavy scriptwork for me. xD

Edit: Lol, I thought archeia's post was the last and 2390802934890 posts came after I made the last one. Sorry! D:
Wow seriously? And they use some* RTP and they're not even... Mildly decent. o_o
Oh why D:<

*edit
Craze
why would i heal when i could equip a morningstar
15170
JosephSeraph
Mm that being said, do those commercial RM games in fact make any money at all? I'm wondering, since... Hmm, I dunno.


Way, way too much.
Mm that being said, do those commercial RM games in fact make any money at all? I'm wondering, since... Hmm, I dunno.
author=Magi
author=narcodis
But then again, 2k3's battle system is pretty gimp as well.
These sentiments might be changing in the coming months

*hint*


Yeah, I'm actually pretty excited to see WolfCoder's project come into fruition. Crossing fingers!
I would say, VXP is more powerful than 2k/2k3, but the learning curve is certainly much steeper than 2k/2k3, mainly due to the scripting language system, which is why not many people are using VXP. Not many people are into this sort of "coding" and "scripting" and stuff. Not many people are fans of numbers and code after code. Not many people are into programming. In 2k/2k3, coding is not as prominent.

Of course, if the determined are willing to invest time into learning VXP and in time master it, they can produce an efficient game. The thing is, not everyone has creative minds. One has to think from that perspective.

RPG Maker, anyway, is a hobby, period. It's not really recommended as the type of program one would really use for commercial purposes. (There are people who do, but are they really doing it as their main source of income? Obviously not. It's all because they want to, and just to earn some extra pocket money).
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