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I Hate RMVX

  • calunio
  • 02/01/2011 03:04 PM
  • 21165 views
I've always made games in RM2k3. My next big game will be on RMVX. For my Shinan's weird contest entry, I was divided between both.

RMVX Pros:
Better graphics;
Larger charsets;
Warming up for my next project;

RM2k3 Pros:
I'm familiar with it. Actually, I'm the wizard of rm2k3. I can do anything I want with events.

But I decided to go with VX because of the larger characters. The dancers wouldn't have looked good in 24x32. Probably not a good idea planning on making a game with an original system, custom graphics WHILE learning a new engine.

But hey, everyone always says that:

RMVX can do everything RM2k3 does + scripts.

LIES

Here's my first experience with VX.

First thing I did was the sprites. Dancers were 60x80, the little devil is 85x85. Nice being able to sprite freely.

Then I made the Satan part. I wanted an overlay. I used the show picture command, but the picture followed my character. I looked for a "picture scrolls with map" option, but there was none. Then I found out I needed a SCRIPT for it, because I guess keeping that checkbox would be too much to ask. Nessiah gave me the script.

For the same Satan scene, I wanted to make him open his eyes. Satan is a panorama. So I looked for a "change panorama" thing somewhere. I actually didn't look, cause I learned earlier VX doesn't do that either. But I solved this easier with pictures.

On a brigther note, I liked not losing colors on my backgrounds. Something like this on 2k3 would have looked much uglier:



Next step was the title screen. I knew how to modify the title image. Changing scripts. But what I wanted to do was remove the "Continue" option from the title screen. I messed up with the Scene_Title script a lot, but always getting buggy results. I finally did that but the Shutdown option is gray. I wasn't able to fix that. I also wasn't able to change the words "New Game" and "Shutdown". I know it's possible, I just didn't find out how.

One thing I learned about VX is self-switches. They're good for not stacking your switch list with stuff you'll only use once.

I had another problem with showing overlays. In rm2k3, I usually show overlays making a parallel event and using the commands:

Show picture;
Erase event;

With this, you don't see the picture being shown... when you get to the map, the picture is already there, cause the event acts immediately. In VX, there was a tiny yet horrendous lag that made me teleport to the map with no overlay, and after a few seconds the overlay appeared. But I was able to fix that with fade-ins and fade-outs.

People complain about the mapping in VX being complicated... but since I only use panoramas, I didn't have problems with that. The good thing about VX is that you can have panoramas of any size.

Another thing I missed was the option "wait until key is pressed". It would be good to show the introductory screens. I had to replace that with invisible events surrounding the hero char. A bit annoying.

Now comes the gruesome part. This is a scored game, your goal is to make a high score. Marvel Brothel was like that, the score is visible at the top of the screen at all times:



It's money, actually.
Making something like that in 2k3 is hell. You need one picture for each digit (0-9), a code to separate a big number into digits, and a lot of trial-and-error to correctly place the numbers on the screen. Something like that:



It goes way down...

But hey, this is VX, right? I could do this a lot easier with scripts.

Well, yes I could. But finding a script to show a g**d*** number of the screen wasn't that easy. Liberty found me one similar and edited it to suit my needs. But I needed extra help from the Help Forum to change the font. And the final result doesn't look that awesome.

Finally a big surprise: VX can't do math! There was a place in the code that basically had something like:

30 * 1 = 1

I checked the code many many times, but nothing seemed to be wrong. Only the math was wrong. People on irc told me it's an actual bug in RMVX. Really... math? Well, I fixed it changing 30 * 1 to 1 * 30. It worked. No idea why.

Finally, an issue with VX that had an actual impact on the game. There's no "wait until key is pressed" for the key input thing. If you press A, it's like pressing AAAAAAAAA. It completely messed the mechanics of my game (if you played it, you know what I mean). My solution was to add a wait command before the key input. The downside is that the player has to hold a key instead of just pressing it. Makes the whole thing a lot less smooth. There's probably a script for it too, but... 3 days.

I thought making VX games run without the RTP was easier because of the game compress thing. I added all RTP files I used to my folders, and then I compressed the game. If I checked "add RTP files" it added ALL files, including the ones I wasn't using. Changed my game size from 27MB to 69MB. No thanks. If I didn't check this option, the game would ask for the RTP to run. My solution was... to delete all useless RTP files from the RTP folders, and check the "add RTP" option. It probably adds some system files too. Well, at least it worked.

Bottom line... yeah, VX is much better than 2k3, but the transition is not as smooth as it should be. You people who tell 2k3 users to switch to VX... don't. RM2k3 is way easier to use, period.

PS: Thanks to the people on #rpgmaker.net for helping me all the way and putting up with my drama. :D

Posts

author=JosephSeraph
slop


once more, but this time with feeling

p.s. you might want to actually try the tool you are criticizing so you can actually be correct next time. at least calunio's criticisms came from actually loading it up.

p.s.s. grow up
WIP
I'm not comfortable with any idea that can't be expressed in the form of men's jewelry
11363
author=JosephSeraph
STOP DEFENDING VX WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH DAMN, PEOPLE
If you want to make a decent VX game you need scripts for THE MOST BASIC FUNCTION.
A script for LESS PICTURE LAG. A script for DECENT MAPPIGN (or else an antilag for the huge ammount of events you will need)
Scripts to editting the poor, unbalanced, loosy, limited BS.
Scripts for almost ANYTHING!!!
And if you want event systems... ( I love them. They're more artsy and original )
...RMVX' EVENTS SUCK!
RMVX is for the one who wants so spend a really HUGE ammount of time for something that can be ultimatelly better than 2k3 due to resolution. (because, in fact, rm2k3 HAVE a script language. I don't know if it's as good as RGSS, ask cherry.)

All in all I stick to rm2k3 because:
*Smaller resolution = less trouble, more details (or less resolution = more "detailed" sprites, since it takes four times less trouble to detail them)
*Way better event commands
*Way better battle system, but with a few annoying bugs such as the gumb way INT works.

And the best of it, many, many more reasons coming due to Wolfcoder and Cherry. (they're Gods, you know.)
Including many troubling functionalities that you can have with scripts in VX, way less buggy (i hope lol) and way simpler. All in all, rm2k3 is a simpler, more direct tool. You can create things as good - or better than - vx's. Just.with.smaller.resolution. (But with 32bits images as far as wolfcoder's 20xx goes, I believe.)
So, that's it.

And sorry if I'm a bustling wolfcoder / cherry fan, they're too awesome and what they're making is making me TOOOO HAPPPPPYYYYY
Just so you can stop embarrassing yourself in the future:

1) Scripts are what makes RMXP/VX far more powerful than anything RM2k3 can do.
2) There is a logical fallacy that smaller resolution = more details. Don't say it again please.
3) The RMVX battle system has the advantage in that it isn't horrifically broken if you add more than 2 people in your party.
4) You can still do more in RMXP/VX than you can with anything WolfCoder and Cherry have made and are making.
EDIT: 5) RM2k3 does not have a public scripting language and it isn't even close to the same thing as what RMXP/VX can do ARGH HULK SMASH

We were actually having a very passion filled conversation here until you had to inject pure dumb into it.


author=Versalia
Now, the reason a more modern system isn't used is because of the ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE amount of transitional work required. So much has been done within an outdated system that at this point it's more counterproductive than not to attempt to convert the entire project.

My question is what, exactly, are you trying to accomplish? Impressing other people who make games as a hobby? Good for you. Trying to make a commercially viable game that you can make money off of? Good luck to you.
These are some good points. I don't think it would be wise to try and transition a game to RM2k3. However if you have been working on your RM2k3 game for THIS LONG since VX came out, you have serious development problems that need to be looked at anyway.

What I am trying to accomplish is to fuel some passionate discussion. And also to get people to try out new things. I'm not much of an RM user myself and have preferred the purely programming aspects of game creation, but even I am going to broach new territory and use VX for a project.

What I cannot stand, however, is FUD being spread.
author=kentona
I think that people should use whatever they have the most fun using

*edit*
Fuck me, I'm usually much better with spotting if there's a second page or not
Versalia
must be all that rtp in your diet
1405
However if you have been working on your RM2k3 for THIS LONG since VX came out, you have serious development problems that need to be looked at anyway.


This is a good point. I have not, in fact, been working on it THAT long. However, I have also not been on "the scene" of RPG making for a while, so I also haven't had the time (or the energy) to pick up XP/VX scripting language and learn the maker etc. So in this case, the wall of transition is not in actually transferring the game project, but the learning curve of trying to make it on something totally foreign to me.

Again: I never said I was Anti-XP or Anti-VX. I support anybody who wishes to use them, and your reasons for choosing to use them are completely valid. But I find it very interesting that you "want to get people to try out new things" - translation is "want to get people to use only the newest things," given your original statement.

My point is still this: Don't tell other people what to use and what not to use. It's condescending, arrogant and elitist.
WIP
I'm not comfortable with any idea that can't be expressed in the form of men's jewelry
11363
Well I did say "nobody should make RM2k3 games" implying that there is in fact a choice there. You shouldn't use really old tools, but you can if you want.

My statement was more trying to mock calunio's "period" statement.
Versalia
must be all that rtp in your diet
1405
author=WIP
Well I did say "nobody should make RM2k3 games" implying that there is in fact a choice there. You shouldn't use really old tools, but you can if you want.

My statement was more trying to mock calunio's "period" statement.


Okay, I'll concede that to you. I honestly didn't make the connection between the two statements (and I don't agree with the totalitarian statements of the original blog posting either).
I'd probably use VX, but I'm so waist deep into my game using 2k3, it would take ages to convert everything over to another system. However, in the future, I will likely switch over to VX (assuming I'm not sick of gamemaking by that point.
Magi
Resident Terrapin
1028
I am still waiting for Enterbrain's program that actually combines the best features from the 2k3-VX era without pointlessly scrapping others or butchering things that are not broken. (never)

author=WIP
If it takes me (RMVX) one day to accomplish what takes you (RM2k3) a week, why on earth would I use something that would waste my time?
This is entirely true, but also fails to take into account other outside factors such as general ignorance of scripting or lack of desire to learn.. If you don't know the first thing about the syntax of ruby (a silly language) It in the end will likely take even longer to do what you want than point and clicking everywhere.
I can see why people don't like VX. Like, if you can't really script, you're more or less at the mercy of whatever other people create with RGSS, unless you feel like teaching yourself how... which many people don't. Given that, there is alot of things VX doesn't include that 2k3 does.

Also there's the fact of the absolutely retarded tileset function that VX has. I mean honestly, why?

But then again, 2k3's battle system is pretty gimp as well.

I dunno. I think people create what they want using what they want. It's all in good fun when it comes to RPGMakers, I think.
Versalia
must be all that rtp in your diet
1405
author=narcodis
I dunno. I think people create what they want using what they want. It's all in good fun when it comes to RPGMakers, I think.


This attitude is so very refreshing. I knew I liked you.
TFT
WHOA wow wow. two tails? that is a sexy idea...
445
author=Craze
Versalia
WIP
Nobody should make RM2k3 games these days. Period.
Your attitude is absurd
Or practical, pragmatic and useful.


except its not.
Magi
Resident Terrapin
1028
author=narcodis
But then again, 2k3's battle system is pretty gimp as well.

These sentiments might be changing in the coming months

*hint*
InfectionFiles
the world ends in whatever my makerscore currently is
4622
I will never use VX, ever.
As long as I have a choice, anyways.

I just plain don't like it.

author=TFT
author=Craze
Versalia
WIP
Nobody should make RM2k3 games these days. Period.
Your attitude is absurd
Or practical, pragmatic and useful.
except its not.

EDIT:
@Magi - Hopefully!
Versalia
must be all that rtp in your diet
1405
Magi stop dangling an invisible carrot in front of meeee
Craze
why would i heal when i could equip a morningstar
15170
I'm going to echo what WIP said: people who are pooping around can use whatever they want. People who want to produce something quickly and efficiently should probably use VXP.

Not knowing how to use the tools (calunio) meaning that you can't make something in two seconds your first try doesn't mean that the tool sucks. It means that you need practice. I'm pretty sure ~mr event master~ didn't learn how to use 2k3 in three days.
author=Craze
people who are pooping around .


Define that pretty please .;_;
Versalia
must be all that rtp in your diet
1405
author=JosephSeraph
author=Craze
people who are pooping around .
Define that pretty please .;_;


YOU AREN'T USING A 100% CUSTOM MENU SYSTEM, BATTLE SYSTEM, SPRITES, PUSHING THE LIMITS OF THE MAKER, MAKING COMMERCIALLY VIABLE GAMES, ETC

your work is crap
InfectionFiles
the world ends in whatever my makerscore currently is
4622
author=Craze
people who are pooping around .

Yeah, I really don't like that statement either.

i've seen ALOT, ALOT of really bad VX games that have all this stuff people praise.
Because let's face it
it isn't the program that makes a game great, it is the person using it

I'd play a rm2k/2k3 game any day over a piece of shit VX or XP
even the good VX games fall short of ANYTHING that was created in 2k/2k3

but whatever, people are always going to like different things
that is fact.
Magi
Resident Terrapin
1028
Fortunately, there are literally hundreds of people "pooping" around in VX as well.

then again, we can't all create a game as good as Sonic and the Chaos Dragons
author=Versalia
author=Sailerius
author=Karsuman
hey you know the paint leonardo da vinci used to make his paintings?

they don't make it anymore. it's outdated.
Indeed. Just imagine what he could have made if he had access to today's tools.
Many artists using "today's tools" do not come close to what he made.

There is this wonderful site we call Conceptart.org who can overthrow Da Vinci in many ways now.

author=JosephSeraph
STOP DEFENDING VX WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH DAMN, PEOPLE
If you want to make a decent VX game you need scripts for THE MOST BASIC FUNCTION.
A script for LESS PICTURE LAG. A script for DECENT MAPPIGN (or else an antilag for the huge ammount of events you will need)
Scripts to editting the poor, unbalanced, loosy, limited BS.
Scripts for almost ANYTHING!!!
And if you want event systems... ( I love them. They're more artsy and original )
...RMVX' EVENTS SUCK!
RMVX is for the one who wants so spend a really HUGE ammount of time for something that can be ultimatelly better than 2k3 due to resolution. (because, in fact, rm2k3 HAVE a script language. I don't know if it's as good as RGSS, ask cherry.)

All in all I stick to rm2k3 because:
*Smaller resolution = less trouble, more details (or less resolution = more "detailed" sprites, since it takes four times less trouble to detail them)
*Way better event commands
*Way better battle system, but with a few annoying bugs such as the gumb way INT works.

And the best of it, many, many more reasons coming due to Wolfcoder and Cherry. (they're Gods, you know.)
Including many troubling functionalities that you can have with scripts in VX, way less buggy (i hope lol) and way simpler. All in all, rm2k3 is a simpler, more direct tool. You can create things as good - or better than - vx's. Just.with.smaller.resolution. (But with 32bits images as far as wolfcoder's 20xx goes, I believe.)
So, that's it.

And sorry if I'm a bustling wolfcoder / cherry fan, they're too awesome and what they're making is making me TOOOO HAPPPPPYYYYY

I would start to say how wrong you are but I wouldn't bother. Because this is :|
P.s. THE BATTLE SYSTEM IS SO NOT LIMITING YOU GOTTA BE STUPID TO THINK THAT, LOOK AT NOTEBOXES AND SCENE_BATTLE MAN.

P.s.s. VX'S EVENTING SYSTEM IS POWERFUL and it's called EVENT SCRIPTING. It saves a lot of time! (Unless some stuff is missing you'd have to have a script or other work arounds.) Oh and picture lag, what are you saying? And 2k3 also had event lagging too dude.

***

Calunio the problem is that you used vx for a 3day contest and with that lots of pressure and first time usage. It's normal you'd be frustrated and go ARRGGHHH over it because of lack of experience and table flipping and giving up or never gonna use it again, eventually. VX is extremely powerful, JUST GIVE IT TIME.

Also I forgot to tell you that you need a variable fix snippet/script for RMVX. THE JAPANESE RMVX DOESN'T HAVE THESE ISSUES, FOR SOME REASON THE STUPID ENGLISH VERSION HAS SO MANY BUGS.

That is all.