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Dimensions of 2 or 3?
Anaryu- 02/23/2014 05:46 AM
- 13153 views
This is a question we've long been pondering, and we've done a prototyping on both sides of the spectrum.
I want to ditch RPG Maker because of resolution limitations more than anything else.
Krisanna (artist) wants to ditch it because she's not good at spriting; environments in particular.
So we started working in 3D, and we've gone through a lot of tests, iterations, and prototype games (BoutallesTogether, Death Wish, even Ginger) to make stronger and better tools and learn our limitations, capabilities, and tools.
After several iterations we came up a 3D model design we liked and built it so it animates well:
So why 3D for a hobby game? Because we don't want to keep it a hobby game. I'd like to Kickstart and eventually sell the project.
While I enjoy making games and can do it in my spare time for fun, for Krisanna this is work - and as such is mentally exhausting.
So we need to either making money on some of these projects or she has to get a part-time job to help deal with the medical bills and costs of finding a residence in the city we moved to for my job.
The best solution to us seemed to be to do a commercial project. An unpleasant decision for me.
Trying to Kickstart or sell an RPG Maker game just felt... childish? Inappropriate? But I've seen a lot of successful people using it - people who aren't making junk games (though there are plenty of those.) So maybe keeping it 2D and in RM is a possibility?
So the questions we're pondering and would like some input on:
1. Do you think RM is okay to use and go commercial with?
1. Should we go with 2D or 3D?
I want to ditch RPG Maker because of resolution limitations more than anything else.
Krisanna (artist) wants to ditch it because she's not good at spriting; environments in particular.
So we started working in 3D, and we've gone through a lot of tests, iterations, and prototype games (BoutallesTogether, Death Wish, even Ginger) to make stronger and better tools and learn our limitations, capabilities, and tools.
After several iterations we came up a 3D model design we liked and built it so it animates well:
So why 3D for a hobby game? Because we don't want to keep it a hobby game. I'd like to Kickstart and eventually sell the project.
While I enjoy making games and can do it in my spare time for fun, for Krisanna this is work - and as such is mentally exhausting.
So we need to either making money on some of these projects or she has to get a part-time job to help deal with the medical bills and costs of finding a residence in the city we moved to for my job.
The best solution to us seemed to be to do a commercial project. An unpleasant decision for me.
Trying to Kickstart or sell an RPG Maker game just felt... childish? Inappropriate? But I've seen a lot of successful people using it - people who aren't making junk games (though there are plenty of those.) So maybe keeping it 2D and in RM is a possibility?
So the questions we're pondering and would like some input on:
1. Do you think RM is okay to use and go commercial with?
1. Should we go with 2D or 3D?
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CloseBOFIII mixed a 3d environment with 2d sprites and enemies which actually worked quite well, so that's an option for future games. As for your current 3d Assets, why not use them to make opening and ending movies? No sense letting them go to waste... Also I may well do that song even if you don't use i t:p
Krisanna
7963
author=Solitayre
I'm excited!
(Still want Alaria plushies though)
I don't know if they have enough stuffing for that. ; )
Anaryu
8848
author=Craze
well so much for my input of "go 2d even though your 3d stuff looks better than persona q"
Okay, first off, Persona Q is the greatest.
Second, yeah, we still like the 3D route better (it actually looks great!) it's just that the effort involved is too much more; doing an enemy image might take 2-5 hours for 2D, but a 3D model takes 10+ for the model, and then another 5-10 minimum to rig and animate. That wouldn't be bad if it was just enemies we needed to make, but there's the players and the environment.
If it was a full time job it wouldn't be bad, but time as we get older becomes more and more limited. We could finish this in another 2-3 years in 3D, or a lot sooner in 2D. (Besides, with Krisanna got a job, so her time to work on the 3D was reduced greatly.)
I still wish I could make better environments though; our tileset building skills are lacking at best. : (
author=LouisCyphre
Go with 3D for your characters, certainly.
Beyond that, iterate with things! Consider 3D backdrops, 2D fields, and everything in between. Make trash throwaway projects like "Extreme Fishing" just to test your animation and scenebuilding capabilities. Make absolutely stupid shit every time an idea strikes you. The models' style puts me in mind of Bravely Default, which staged its models on beautiful 2.5D hand-painted backgrounds, which are certainly possible from you too! Explore the realm of royalty-free open-source background images and see if you can find something to your liking. Just... Don't close any doors prematurely, or you're doing your games a disservice.
I think, by the way you're framing your questions, that you know what answers you want to hear.
Yeah, I was really leaning towards 3D, but after nearly a year of working on the engine and resources, the scale of it is measurable and we find our time lacking compared to desire to actually finish this project. : )
We did finish several 3D projects (including a prototype system for this!) to get the hang of it, and have learned a lot, along with how much is left to learn. And the amount of "stupid crap" I've done that isn't released is massive. : )
A 3D RPG isn't outside our range, but the next one we do in it will have that mindset from the start. For Aetherion we just want to actually work on and finish it. : )
NOTE: This actual blog entry was made almost a year ago, I was just replying to open questions now; new blog entry coming soon.
Go with 3D for your characters, certainly.
Beyond that, iterate with things! Consider 3D backdrops, 2D fields, and everything in between. Make trash throwaway projects like "Extreme Fishing" just to test your animation and scenebuilding capabilities. Make absolutely stupid shit every time an idea strikes you. The models' style puts me in mind of Bravely Default, which staged its models on beautiful 2.5D hand-painted backgrounds, which are certainly possible from you too! Explore the realm of royalty-free open-source background images and see if you can find something to your liking. Just... Don't close any doors prematurely, or you're doing your games a disservice.
I think, by the way you're framing your questions, that you know what answers you want to hear.
Beyond that, iterate with things! Consider 3D backdrops, 2D fields, and everything in between. Make trash throwaway projects like "Extreme Fishing" just to test your animation and scenebuilding capabilities. Make absolutely stupid shit every time an idea strikes you. The models' style puts me in mind of Bravely Default, which staged its models on beautiful 2.5D hand-painted backgrounds, which are certainly possible from you too! Explore the realm of royalty-free open-source background images and see if you can find something to your liking. Just... Don't close any doors prematurely, or you're doing your games a disservice.
I think, by the way you're framing your questions, that you know what answers you want to hear.
Anaryu
8848
While a theme song would be really cool, my fear with having people do resources for me is always that I feel bad if they make something and I don't want to use it! : )
Just an update that we're going back to 2D.
Krisanna got a job, so our time is more limited (job is ironically related to her 3D work...) and frankly the 3D stuff is just too big, mostly doing all the enemies we want.
I've got about 2/3 of the system (including all the new features we blogged about) ported into VXAce now and there'll be a full blog post on it soon!
Just an update that we're going back to 2D.
Krisanna got a job, so our time is more limited (job is ironically related to her 3D work...) and frankly the 3D stuff is just too big, mostly doing all the enemies we want.
I've got about 2/3 of the system (including all the new features we blogged about) ported into VXAce now and there'll be a full blog post on it soon!
author=AnaryuGood to know. Still interested in a theme song?
Gosh, it has been a while.
We tested the base engine out on a different project 'In Arcem Miseria' - the combat system wouldn't be like that of course, but the mapping tools and event editor and database, etc, are all working pretty well.
We moved recently again so it's been a bit of hiatus while the artist finishes some commission work. I'm pretty set on the tools, so not we're waiting on some resources and working on a test environment for a demo.
Anaryu
8848
Gosh, it has been a while.
We tested the base engine out on a different project 'In Arcem Miseria' - the combat system wouldn't be like that of course, but the mapping tools and event editor and database, etc, are all working pretty well.
We moved recently again so it's been a bit of hiatus while the artist finishes some commission work. I'm pretty set on the tools, so not we're waiting on some resources and working on a test environment for a demo.
We tested the base engine out on a different project 'In Arcem Miseria' - the combat system wouldn't be like that of course, but the mapping tools and event editor and database, etc, are all working pretty well.
We moved recently again so it's been a bit of hiatus while the artist finishes some commission work. I'm pretty set on the tools, so not we're waiting on some resources and working on a test environment for a demo.
author=AnaryuHow's this coming? We haven't had an update in a while.
I wanted to thank everyone for the input on this! It's been really helpful and we've been asking around through a few different avenues.
Our current plan is to take this commercial in 3D - before we get too far we'll be doing a small demo with a completed environment and some rough combat. If that looks as good as we hope we'll probably continue on the 3D path, otherwise we might switch to 2D if it doesn't look possible or too hard to maintain.
@BurningTyger: If Krisanna took on a normal job her rate of finishing either 2D or 3D artwork would REALLY slow down - to the point that it'd be half a year before we likely even had a working demo.
Anaryu
8848
I wanted to thank everyone for the input on this! It's been really helpful and we've been asking around through a few different avenues.
Our current plan is to take this commercial in 3D - before we get too far we'll be doing a small demo with a completed environment and some rough combat. If that looks as good as we hope we'll probably continue on the 3D path, otherwise we might switch to 2D if it doesn't look possible or too hard to maintain.
@BurningTyger: If Krisanna took on a normal job her rate of finishing either 2D or 3D artwork would REALLY slow down - to the point that it'd be half a year before we likely even had a working demo.
Our current plan is to take this commercial in 3D - before we get too far we'll be doing a small demo with a completed environment and some rough combat. If that looks as good as we hope we'll probably continue on the 3D path, otherwise we might switch to 2D if it doesn't look possible or too hard to maintain.
@BurningTyger: If Krisanna took on a normal job her rate of finishing either 2D or 3D artwork would REALLY slow down - to the point that it'd be half a year before we likely even had a working demo.
Frankly I think going commercial might be a bad idea because it would add a;lot of pressure; I vote for the part-time job. Making signs and logos for clients on commission might be a good way to use Krisanna's art skills. I'm going to try singing "Light of the Sun" again . . .once i figure out how to get the best results from my mike.
ricifidi
30
I believe that rpgmaker is ok as a 2d tool, but limited when it comes to how many plataforms it supports (windows only? maybe linux and mac if you make sure it works on wine).
For 3d, I'll just recommend to watch the RWBY tecnology panel where they sum up how much they cheated during development (it is about 3d animation using a software called poser).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm9YmhzVeA4
The point is : 3d pay off in the end, since all that hard previous work you did will be reusable.
For 3d, I'll just recommend to watch the RWBY tecnology panel where they sum up how much they cheated during development (it is about 3d animation using a software called poser).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm9YmhzVeA4
The point is : 3d pay off in the end, since all that hard previous work you did will be reusable.
turkeyDawg
195
zomg those models are adorable!
I've seen a number of commercial RPG Maker games, some of which could be called successful, so I don't see why not.
That being said, I don't know much about what's all out there for 3D game engines. Even if making 3D assets is practical for you, the programming could potentially be a nightmare! However, if you do know what you're doing with 3D, the possibilities over 2D would definitely be worthwhile.
I've seen a number of commercial RPG Maker games, some of which could be called successful, so I don't see why not.
That being said, I don't know much about what's all out there for 3D game engines. Even if making 3D assets is practical for you, the programming could potentially be a nightmare! However, if you do know what you're doing with 3D, the possibilities over 2D would definitely be worthwhile.
Selius
0
If it's worth money I'll pay money.
I've seen and bought a fair share of commercial rpg maker games and all but one of them was fucking trash.
If you do go the commercial route, just make it worth the price I pay for it. (cause im gonna buy it. your games are good.)
As for my preference, I like 2D.
I've seen and bought a fair share of commercial rpg maker games and all but one of them was fucking trash.
If you do go the commercial route, just make it worth the price I pay for it. (cause im gonna buy it. your games are good.)
As for my preference, I like 2D.
Erilex
3452
I say embrace the 3D (which would necessarily mean ditching RM, I guess)! Those models look lovely.
Either way, 3D or 2D, RM or no RM, if you decide to kickstart this I'll be sure to throw a couple tenners your way (this might not sound like much, but I haven't backed any other crowd-funded games, so it's kind of a big deal -in an insignificant, cheap sort of way-! I love Aetherion, is what I'm saying).
Either way, 3D or 2D, RM or no RM, if you decide to kickstart this I'll be sure to throw a couple tenners your way (this might not sound like much, but I haven't backed any other crowd-funded games, so it's kind of a big deal -in an insignificant, cheap sort of way-! I love Aetherion, is what I'm saying).
Krisanna
7963
author=unity
EDIT: Also wanted to say that Krisanna's artwork is always wonderful. I wish I had a thousandth of her talents/skills :D :P
argh
792
author=Anaryu
Ah, that is perfect. Objections withdrawn.
Krisanna's artwork is indeed amazing.
Your games are polished enough that the fact that they're on a RM engine is moot, in my opinion. While I generally prefer sprites to 3D, I also must admit that those renders are cute and amazing.
So basically, what Solitayre already said.
EDIT: Also wanted to say that Krisanna's artwork is always wonderful. I wish I had a thousandth of her talents/skills :D :P
So basically, what Solitayre already said.
EDIT: Also wanted to say that Krisanna's artwork is always wonderful. I wish I had a thousandth of her talents/skills :D :P
