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Magic and Mana Handling
Puddor- 01/05/2013 01:35 PM
- 2720 views
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Avee
5794
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Closeauthor=SorceressKyrsty
Stocking is intended to be a last resort; if you Stock a draw point's magic energy you will leave it empty for quite some time, while if you simply heal your characters with one the energy will restore quite quickly.
Here's how I'd react to such a system as a player: I presume that once I complete and leave an area, there would be no need to return to it, right? Then I'd never leave an area without having stocked all draw points.
If the current area requires me to spend some time fighting, whether it be to level up or earn items, I guess I'd roam around draw points and use them for recovery a few times before stocking and moving on to the next area.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
On the one hand, I like the idea of MP that recovers over time, because it encourages you to use skills while simultaneously forcing you to conserve to some extent. A lot of games make MP costs so mean that normal attacks are the only thing you use against any non-boss enemy, and a lot of other games make them so trivial that you just use your best magic attack every turn.
On the other hand, this system makes it easy to get stuck if the player has poor planning.
Hmm, though, I don't think it'd be impossible to actually make Draw work. All the solutions I can think of off the top of my head create equally big problems as side-effects, but there's got to be a way!
On the other hand, this system makes it easy to get stuck if the player has poor planning.
Hmm, though, I don't think it'd be impossible to actually make Draw work. All the solutions I can think of off the top of my head create equally big problems as side-effects, but there's got to be a way!
The same goes for any system in regards to poor planning, though. If you show up at a fire-based boss with ATK+Fire it's in no way my fault that you haven't checked your set up.
I'm thinking it's probably a good idea to make it so that not every Draw Point can be stocked, like how not every draw point in Final Fantasy VIII refilled. Draw Points were actually fairly common-ish in FF8 and the it would be the same case here-- strategically placed near boss battles as well as in other areas. MP balancing in terms of what skills you can use is definitely a struggle, just like any usable resource (you either find yourself with too much or too little more often than not-- FF8 had this difficulty with certain item resources and most definitely CASH).
If I am honest, Draw is ok as long as you've basically broken the system first. And the entire concept of having to entirely break the structure and difficulty of a game to make one of its key components bearable is infuriating.
Draw is an interesting concept on paper and yes, possibly it could be fixed through limiting the amount of time spent in battles drawing mediocre spells (providing the player with more convertible drops, allowing Refine abilities to be learnt earlier, limiting drawable spells to rare ones). But in that case you're still able to break the system in some way by Refining items like Windmills (ridiculously easy to obtain very early and the magic they create is mugglehugging TORNADO- which Junctions better than CURAGA) and if you don't have enough or a strong enough magic junctioned to your MAG stat drawing is likely to fail in terms of rare spells, or you're only going to get 1-3 units each time. Balancing Draw to the point where every single player is going to enjoy it is 99.9% impossible, and the likelyhood of someone like myself (who is far from the type of person to spend their entire day calculating damage formulas) finding that perfect combination unlikely. (I'M A GRAPHICS ARTIST/WRITER OTL)
Rather than attempting to do something that plays directly against my strengths in regards to game making I want to create a solid, fun system that, though it can be called an amalgamation of previous systems (what Final Fantasy isn't, these days?) isn't going to cause gigantic headaches in terms of balancing and enables me to imbue the game with difficulty and, hopefully, fun.
It's not like I directly ripped out the core of the game with no explanation; the reason Junction and Draw systems are unavailable not only directly ties into the original plot but the plot of this sequel as well. Although GF was a necessity in the final battles against Ultimecia, people are only going to use something that causes heavy amnesia if it is absolutely last resort or in small moderation the moment its effects are confirmed.
Additionally the plot of this game means that if you did attempt to use GF on a still-regular basis there is a heavy chance you would end up in a coma or dead.
tl;dr I'm sure there is a way to fix Draw and Junction, but as I've said before, I am not the person going to be looking for said solution.
I might also make MP recover using concentration abilities, and Osmose makes a return in this game, so you can restore mid-battle, too.
I'm thinking it's probably a good idea to make it so that not every Draw Point can be stocked, like how not every draw point in Final Fantasy VIII refilled. Draw Points were actually fairly common-ish in FF8 and the it would be the same case here-- strategically placed near boss battles as well as in other areas. MP balancing in terms of what skills you can use is definitely a struggle, just like any usable resource (you either find yourself with too much or too little more often than not-- FF8 had this difficulty with certain item resources and most definitely CASH).
If I am honest, Draw is ok as long as you've basically broken the system first. And the entire concept of having to entirely break the structure and difficulty of a game to make one of its key components bearable is infuriating.
Draw is an interesting concept on paper and yes, possibly it could be fixed through limiting the amount of time spent in battles drawing mediocre spells (providing the player with more convertible drops, allowing Refine abilities to be learnt earlier, limiting drawable spells to rare ones). But in that case you're still able to break the system in some way by Refining items like Windmills (ridiculously easy to obtain very early and the magic they create is mugglehugging TORNADO- which Junctions better than CURAGA) and if you don't have enough or a strong enough magic junctioned to your MAG stat drawing is likely to fail in terms of rare spells, or you're only going to get 1-3 units each time. Balancing Draw to the point where every single player is going to enjoy it is 99.9% impossible, and the likelyhood of someone like myself (who is far from the type of person to spend their entire day calculating damage formulas) finding that perfect combination unlikely. (I'M A GRAPHICS ARTIST/WRITER OTL)
Rather than attempting to do something that plays directly against my strengths in regards to game making I want to create a solid, fun system that, though it can be called an amalgamation of previous systems (what Final Fantasy isn't, these days?) isn't going to cause gigantic headaches in terms of balancing and enables me to imbue the game with difficulty and, hopefully, fun.
It's not like I directly ripped out the core of the game with no explanation; the reason Junction and Draw systems are unavailable not only directly ties into the original plot but the plot of this sequel as well. Although GF was a necessity in the final battles against Ultimecia, people are only going to use something that causes heavy amnesia if it is absolutely last resort or in small moderation the moment its effects are confirmed.
Additionally the plot of this game means that if you did attempt to use GF on a still-regular basis there is a heavy chance you would end up in a coma or dead.
tl;dr I'm sure there is a way to fix Draw and Junction, but as I've said before, I am not the person going to be looking for said solution.
I might also make MP recover using concentration abilities, and Osmose makes a return in this game, so you can restore mid-battle, too.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Well, if you show up at a fire-based boss with +fire gear, you can leave and get different gear. (How you could possibly know that it's a fire-based boss, or that it's a boss at all, before the battle starts is another story.)
The difference with the draw points is if you save in the middle of a dungeon after stocking the nearby draw point, and then run out of MP, you can no longer leave the dungeon. You are stuck in place and your save is ruined; you must start the game over from the begnning. Am I wrong?
My first instinct with fixing Draw would actually be to limit the number of spells each character can stock to 3 casts of each spell, and then also limit them to a maximum of 5 different spells. That way drawing from enemies becomes an ongoing cycle instead of a thing you do for half an hour nonstop, and magic becomes a thing you use instead of a thing you collect and lock away in a safe. Also probably make draw inflict damage and always completely fill your stock of the spell you draw. Because hey yo I AM THE PERSON WHO SPENDS ALL DAY THINKING ABOUT DAMAGE FORMULAS. I describe this idea not because I think you'll change this game to use it, but because I know you well enough by now to be pretty sure you're gonna keep making FF8 games until the end of time, hahaha.
The difference with the draw points is if you save in the middle of a dungeon after stocking the nearby draw point, and then run out of MP, you can no longer leave the dungeon. You are stuck in place and your save is ruined; you must start the game over from the begnning. Am I wrong?
My first instinct with fixing Draw would actually be to limit the number of spells each character can stock to 3 casts of each spell, and then also limit them to a maximum of 5 different spells. That way drawing from enemies becomes an ongoing cycle instead of a thing you do for half an hour nonstop, and magic becomes a thing you use instead of a thing you collect and lock away in a safe. Also probably make draw inflict damage and always completely fill your stock of the spell you draw. Because hey yo I AM THE PERSON WHO SPENDS ALL DAY THINKING ABOUT DAMAGE FORMULAS. I describe this idea not because I think you'll change this game to use it, but because I know you well enough by now to be pretty sure you're gonna keep making FF8 games until the end of time, hahaha.
emmych
817
But that's a kind of since I still worry about quality and whether or not my expectations might be too high ^^;Bad news fairy, incoming: yes your expectations are too high, if you expect to create a Custom Animated Enemies System on top of an entire game all by yourself! There's only so much a person can do when they fly solo -- my advice? Paint those muhfuckuhs. It'll save you a million and a half headaches. OTL
author=emmychBut that's a kind of since I still worry about quality and whether or not my expectations might be too high ^^;Bad news fairy, incoming: yes your expectations are too high, if you expect to create a Custom Animated Enemies System on top of an entire game all by yourself! There's only so much a person can do when they fly solo -- my advice? Paint those muhfuckuhs. It'll save you a million and a half headaches. OTL
It'd probably take me longer to paint the enemies, haha. I don't intend on making a massive set of animations; probably idle, death and special skill.
This game has a full set of animated actors and single frame enemies. I'm a lot faster in terms of pixel art now, as well. Pixel art isn't really a problem since I actually enjoy doing it (same with arting in general).
My problem is mapping, really. It takes me forever, and I don't think I'm very good at it to be perfectly honest. The thing is I'm not really sure what steps I can take in order to balance speed and effectiveness vs. map accuracy/visual aesthetics.
@LockeZ that could fix draw, but then there's the Junction issue. If you're using Draw you're using Junction, because it's GFs that bestow the Draw ability in the first place. Balancing them both in that respect is a headache.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Well, junctioning magic to stats is not the important part of Junction, the important part is junctioning GFs to your body. But the magic-junctioning thing still could totally work. Just give each spell a specific stat that it improves, so drawing Fire from the enemy always gives you +6 strength (reduced to +4 and +2 when you have fewer casts left) and drawing Thundaga always gives you +21 speed (reduced to +14 and +7 when you have fewer casts left) and drawing Sleep always gives you 75% sleep resistance (reduced to okay yeah you get it). Then they won't account for 100% of your stats, they will just be small bonuses, which you have to weigh temporarily losing when you cast magic but you can easily get back to full with a single Draw. And this would also give you the ability to make Fire/Blizzard/Thunder into legitimately different choices instead of just different animations for the same spell.
*breathe*
NOT THAT YOU'RE EVEN USING THIS SYSTEM OR ANYTHING
*breathe*
NOT THAT YOU'RE EVEN USING THIS SYSTEM OR ANYTHING
DBAce9Aura
52
Wait a minute. If the Junction system is being tabled, what sort of spell acquiring system do you have planned?
Check the 'System' tab.'
tl;dr: The plot of SLH employs equipment called 'Extensions'. These exist for both a character's personal strengths, class strengths and a GF's strengths. Equipping a 'GFE' will bestow magic spells dependant on their function or element.
The only character able to use magic without a GFE is Rinoa, who uses non-elemental spells like Ruin/Ruinra/Ruinga and gains access to Meteor later in the game.
tl;dr: The plot of SLH employs equipment called 'Extensions'. These exist for both a character's personal strengths, class strengths and a GF's strengths. Equipping a 'GFE' will bestow magic spells dependant on their function or element.
The only character able to use magic without a GFE is Rinoa, who uses non-elemental spells like Ruin/Ruinra/Ruinga and gains access to Meteor later in the game.
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