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MotW: In-Depth Playthrough
Volrath- 06/05/2015 03:50 PM
- 31958 views
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Volrath
2760
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Close-I imagine that Cade has heard at least the basics of what an Elemental is from Stoic at some point.
-Come to the think of it, Bordell is just one letter short of Bordello. Just a coincidence. Maybe Solest could use some brothels, though. Probably would calm a lot of the Hand guys down.
-I think at that point I had entertained the possibility of some kind of visit to Rutul, but that didn't wind up happening.
-My brother has ownership of one NPC in each town. Can you find them all? (Hint: There are usually, but not always, animals)
-I think somewhere in the town there is a chest with money in it. I remember I considered the possibility that the player could be out of money but I can't recall what I did to deal with that.
-Hmm, never thought the lodites died from Finely's shots, I thought the animation suggested they ducked underwater to avoid them after a while. In fact, I imagined those are the same lodites who ambush the log later.
-Come to the think of it, Bordell is just one letter short of Bordello. Just a coincidence. Maybe Solest could use some brothels, though. Probably would calm a lot of the Hand guys down.
-I think at that point I had entertained the possibility of some kind of visit to Rutul, but that didn't wind up happening.
-My brother has ownership of one NPC in each town. Can you find them all? (Hint: There are usually, but not always, animals)
-I think somewhere in the town there is a chest with money in it. I remember I considered the possibility that the player could be out of money but I can't recall what I did to deal with that.
-Hmm, never thought the lodites died from Finely's shots, I thought the animation suggested they ducked underwater to avoid them after a while. In fact, I imagined those are the same lodites who ambush the log later.
Really? From my experience with RPG Maker XP, events are only reset if something on that particular map where you saved was changed in the editor. In a finished game that is no longer being changed, however, it should work fine. After all, there are many RPG Maker games that do allow you to save anywhere without issues. But then, I don't know whether any of the scripts you used might have caused some problems, not to mention that I can see there being compatibility issues with savefiles in an originally episodic game like this.
You shouldn't have told me about that easter egg, because now I obviously had to go back and try it out for myself. I learned something new about MotW today.
You shouldn't have told me about that easter egg, because now I obviously had to go back and try it out for myself. I learned something new about MotW today.
If the player was allowed to save anywhere, particularly in the original version of MotW, it would cause all kinds of issues. Saving and loading a map would put events back to their starting locations which could cause all kinds of problems; including progression blocks. The game would have to be carefully designed and tested around allowing the player to save anywhere which with RPG Maker would probably be more effort than it's worth.
There's an easter egg in Eagle's Path. If you shoot all the frogs, you'll be cursed for the duration of your time on that map to listen to a sped up version of the Dican boss theme!
There's an easter egg in Eagle's Path. If you shoot all the frogs, you'll be cursed for the duration of your time on that map to listen to a sped up version of the Dican boss theme!
Into the forest we go!
Pearlton:
Eagle's Path, Part 1:
Pearlton:
- During the conversation with the guard that blocks the path to the monastery, I'm a bit surprised Cade doesn't ask about what exactly an Elemental is. Depending on how rare they indeed are, it seems unlikely he knows much about them, considering how little of an education Cade has had. Also, the player knows nothing about them yet at this point, too, although I can easily see this being intentional.
- Was there any special reasoning behind the name of the shopkeeper in Pearlton who allows Gino to set up shop in his store? Although this is an English game and therefore not really an issue, that name always sounded really awkward to me because "Bordell" (or words similar to that) literally means "brothel" in a lot of other languages. I know it's a bit of a dumb thing to even bring up, but I thought I'd just mention it in case you want to avoid any unfortunate associations in the future.
- Does the city of Rutul - that is brought up in this conversation in the store - ever actually appear as a location in the game itself? I only remember it playing a significant role in Clean Slate. The same is true for Drances Agran, who I believe was an important NPC in that game. Not that I think it's bad to present pieces of information like these to the player as part of the world-building. Quite the opposite, actually, it's one of the things I liked a lot about MotW. But I do recommend being careful with the distribution and frequency of this background history, because there's already so many characters and pieces of lore the player has to remember that some people might feel overwhelmed if it comes at too quick a pace.
- I never quite understood why Gino has a special shop subsection for crafting materials if those materials are also offered for sale in the weapon subsection already.
- Since I am unfortunately a hoarder and tend to save obsessively, it never really occured to me how useful Pocket Shelters are until I watched another player use them. Usually, I tend to go back to a save point to heal for free rather than expend resources, even if I never actually need them for later. (However, if Pocket Shelters allowed me to save the game in addition to healing, they would quickly become my favourite item. In fact, that might be an interesting alternative to allowing the player to freely save everywhere, which would at least partially defeat the point of having fairies around.)
- As usual, there's a lot of both interesting and funny NPCs in this town, too. My favourites are the ones in the weapons store, the fairy in the tavern and, for the funny bits, of course the obligatory punner. Though I do wonder whose idea that silly rabbit was. Volrath's brother again, maybe?
- I have a bit of a problem with the fact that you actually have to pay for a room at the inn in order to advance the plot, but there is no area you can go to to gain money. Since I just spent almost all my cash on buying items, I now kind of got locked into selling things again to be able to proceed. It's not a big deal by any means, but still kind of obnoxious since the player has no way to predict it. If the game's mechanics had been designed more visibly around managing money (which would fit some of the main themes, I suppose), that would be okay, but in this situation it feels rather out of place.
- Was there any special reasoning behind the name of the shopkeeper in Pearlton who allows Gino to set up shop in his store? Although this is an English game and therefore not really an issue, that name always sounded really awkward to me because "Bordell" (or words similar to that) literally means "brothel" in a lot of other languages. I know it's a bit of a dumb thing to even bring up, but I thought I'd just mention it in case you want to avoid any unfortunate associations in the future.
- Does the city of Rutul - that is brought up in this conversation in the store - ever actually appear as a location in the game itself? I only remember it playing a significant role in Clean Slate. The same is true for Drances Agran, who I believe was an important NPC in that game. Not that I think it's bad to present pieces of information like these to the player as part of the world-building. Quite the opposite, actually, it's one of the things I liked a lot about MotW. But I do recommend being careful with the distribution and frequency of this background history, because there's already so many characters and pieces of lore the player has to remember that some people might feel overwhelmed if it comes at too quick a pace.
- I never quite understood why Gino has a special shop subsection for crafting materials if those materials are also offered for sale in the weapon subsection already.
- Since I am unfortunately a hoarder and tend to save obsessively, it never really occured to me how useful Pocket Shelters are until I watched another player use them. Usually, I tend to go back to a save point to heal for free rather than expend resources, even if I never actually need them for later. (However, if Pocket Shelters allowed me to save the game in addition to healing, they would quickly become my favourite item. In fact, that might be an interesting alternative to allowing the player to freely save everywhere, which would at least partially defeat the point of having fairies around.)
- As usual, there's a lot of both interesting and funny NPCs in this town, too. My favourites are the ones in the weapons store, the fairy in the tavern and, for the funny bits, of course the obligatory punner. Though I do wonder whose idea that silly rabbit was. Volrath's brother again, maybe?
- I have a bit of a problem with the fact that you actually have to pay for a room at the inn in order to advance the plot, but there is no area you can go to to gain money. Since I just spent almost all my cash on buying items, I now kind of got locked into selling things again to be able to proceed. It's not a big deal by any means, but still kind of obnoxious since the player has no way to predict it. If the game's mechanics had been designed more visibly around managing money (which would fit some of the main themes, I suppose), that would be okay, but in this situation it feels rather out of place.
Eagle's Path, Part 1:
- My goodness, the monsters in this area are terrifying. And that's both in the visual sense and concerning their abilities in battle. Especially those Mush Caps are really dangerous. It's a good thing they are not very resilient, but they can still quickly overwhelm you during the first few encounters. After a few level ups, which fortunately come very quickly due to the good balancing, they become less deadly, though.
- Reading the instructions for Finley's gun-shooting mechanic makes me think these minigames and puzzles would be a lot easier to grasp for the player if the tutorials included some visual images to support the text. That way, the player could see what's going on in every step instead of having to remember all the information in one go and then apply it all afterwards.
- I remember it taking some time before I got used to Finley's shooting mechanic. But the real difficulties I had with it were not the shooting itself, but finding out what objects the game actually expected me to target sometimes, and especially which part of them in the case of multi-tile objects. The mechanic itself is all right, although I think it could have been used in more interesting ways to be more fun to play around with. Also, I think it tends to be a little too finicky for some players, so some rebalancing or an improved concept for this mechanic seems like a good idea to me.
- It's nice to see how with some experience, the different characters' abilities start to complement each other. With Tranquilizer Dart, Adrenaline Shot and Pistol Whip, Finley really brings some useful skills to the table now.
- Okay, so you can totally shoot frogs when you're supposed to break a log out of the Lodite dam. That's... something else, I guess.
- Also, it leaves a rather strange impression that in a game like this, you're required to shoot wild Lodites (which are intelligent beings) because they're trying to stop you from messing with a dam they built. If nothing else, it should at least be made clear that Finley is not actually killing them with his shots.
- Reading the instructions for Finley's gun-shooting mechanic makes me think these minigames and puzzles would be a lot easier to grasp for the player if the tutorials included some visual images to support the text. That way, the player could see what's going on in every step instead of having to remember all the information in one go and then apply it all afterwards.
- I remember it taking some time before I got used to Finley's shooting mechanic. But the real difficulties I had with it were not the shooting itself, but finding out what objects the game actually expected me to target sometimes, and especially which part of them in the case of multi-tile objects. The mechanic itself is all right, although I think it could have been used in more interesting ways to be more fun to play around with. Also, I think it tends to be a little too finicky for some players, so some rebalancing or an improved concept for this mechanic seems like a good idea to me.
- It's nice to see how with some experience, the different characters' abilities start to complement each other. With Tranquilizer Dart, Adrenaline Shot and Pistol Whip, Finley really brings some useful skills to the table now.
- Okay, so you can totally shoot frogs when you're supposed to break a log out of the Lodite dam. That's... something else, I guess.
- Also, it leaves a rather strange impression that in a game like this, you're required to shoot wild Lodites (which are intelligent beings) because they're trying to stop you from messing with a dam they built. If nothing else, it should at least be made clear that Finley is not actually killing them with his shots.
Ok, I see. That explains some things. Thanks, Volrath! I hope my commentary is still useful for you to some degree.
I'm glad you enjoy my playthrough, Artie. I would be happy to see you around here on RMN more often again, but I understand if you have other responsibilities that eat you time.
I already knew that animation and like it a lot. I didn't remember it was based on a comic you made, though. Thanks for the link, I'll make sure to watch it again soon.
I'm glad you enjoy my playthrough, Artie. I would be happy to see you around here on RMN more often again, but I understand if you have other responsibilities that eat you time.
I already knew that animation and like it a lot. I didn't remember it was based on a comic you made, though. Thanks for the link, I'll make sure to watch it again soon.
Thanks for more commentary NeverSilent. Always fun to read. Pretty much the only reason I check this site anymore.
You mentioned you enjoyed the little backstory on how Shroud and Stoic met. I actually drew a short comic of their meeting called "Kindred Spirits" that Volrath also helped write. I'm not sure if the comic is up anywhere but MOTWFan actually did a 3d animation of the comic which is even better!
You can check it out here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rcoc4ewKyP0
You mentioned you enjoyed the little backstory on how Shroud and Stoic met. I actually drew a short comic of their meeting called "Kindred Spirits" that Volrath also helped write. I'm not sure if the comic is up anywhere but MOTWFan actually did a 3d animation of the comic which is even better!
You can check it out here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rcoc4ewKyP0
Volrath
2760
Alrighty!
-Barry knew very little about the stuff Equipment King was into and was so grateful to still be working that he didn't care.
-While at the fort, Vec kept a close eye on the heroes and advised each of the attackers separately. Gabriella had no clue Sparrow was there and didn't even have Shroud on her radar. As far as she was concerned, her job was to deal with an aggressive skeleton.
-When talking about Sparrow, I figure Morias was filling in the gaps of his knowledge with his own guesses. He's only ever heard of Sparrow's recent activities in regard to EK-related incidents, so it must be because nobody else can afford him, right?
-You can actually save during the flashback at the part where Shroud can wander the campsite and chat with everyone. We would probably do that scene a lot differently and perhaps even make it optional.
-Pilc is Jesus.
-I think ArtBane came up with the initial premise for the story of Shroud and Stoic's first meeting. It was a pretty inspired idea.
-Barry was there to observe and learn more about the management side of EK, kind of a training thing so he would eventually run the store without Kovak's supervision (even though he was already doing that, if not very well). Also, from a story point of view, it helps maintain the possibility of him as a suspect for Sparrow.
-Kovak expected the situation in Pearlton to be like Port Arianna, where the shop owner had fallen on hard times and needed EK's help. Obviously didn't work out that way. They might have built their own store, but we learn in that same scene that Vec is concerned about the tax burden of operating in Port Arianna.
-It's very common in America for people to use the phrase "class warfare" anytime someone makes even the slightest criticism of the rich and powerful. It conjures up images of peasants raiding Wall Street with pitchforks and is meant to shut people up by making them feel like extremists. Oddly enough, nobody describes things like predatory bank loans, lobbying against minimum wage and better work conditions and other behaviors that affect the poor as "class warfare." I guess it's only warfare if we fight back.
-Barry knew very little about the stuff Equipment King was into and was so grateful to still be working that he didn't care.
-While at the fort, Vec kept a close eye on the heroes and advised each of the attackers separately. Gabriella had no clue Sparrow was there and didn't even have Shroud on her radar. As far as she was concerned, her job was to deal with an aggressive skeleton.
-When talking about Sparrow, I figure Morias was filling in the gaps of his knowledge with his own guesses. He's only ever heard of Sparrow's recent activities in regard to EK-related incidents, so it must be because nobody else can afford him, right?
-You can actually save during the flashback at the part where Shroud can wander the campsite and chat with everyone. We would probably do that scene a lot differently and perhaps even make it optional.
-Pilc is Jesus.
-I think ArtBane came up with the initial premise for the story of Shroud and Stoic's first meeting. It was a pretty inspired idea.
-Barry was there to observe and learn more about the management side of EK, kind of a training thing so he would eventually run the store without Kovak's supervision (even though he was already doing that, if not very well). Also, from a story point of view, it helps maintain the possibility of him as a suspect for Sparrow.
-Kovak expected the situation in Pearlton to be like Port Arianna, where the shop owner had fallen on hard times and needed EK's help. Obviously didn't work out that way. They might have built their own store, but we learn in that same scene that Vec is concerned about the tax burden of operating in Port Arianna.
-It's very common in America for people to use the phrase "class warfare" anytime someone makes even the slightest criticism of the rich and powerful. It conjures up images of peasants raiding Wall Street with pitchforks and is meant to shut people up by making them feel like extremists. Oddly enough, nobody describes things like predatory bank loans, lobbying against minimum wage and better work conditions and other behaviors that affect the poor as "class warfare." I guess it's only warfare if we fight back.
I'm looking forward to playing through Arc III, too. The Ice Dungeon is one of my favourite locations in the game, and the third Arc is just very good overall. When I got this far into the game for the first time, Arc III was the point at which I just couldn't stop playing any more.
Let's go!
Arc III:
Port Arianna:
Roadtrip to Pearlton:
Pearlton:
I realise I'm starting to make less critical comments than I did at the beginning, because I'm just not seeing many things I feel the need to criticise. That might be because I'm starting to feel the hype again, so to speak. But another reason might just be that, as said above, I remember Arc III in general just being really good. Though we'll see in the next few sessions if it stays this way or if my memory failed me here. Until then!
Let's go!
Arc III:
Port Arianna:
- I might have said this before, but I've always found it nice to see that the heroes in this game actually have (or had right now, rather) a job that they spend time on, are confronted with financial and economic problems etc. It doesn't only make them much more believable as characters, it also adds a lot to the themes of the story and kind of fulfills the role of the "secret civilian identity" typical for superheroes.
- I'm a bit confused as to why Cade and Bones would talk about going after Equipment King and other hero stuff in such a crowded place as the tavern. Shouldn't they be more careful not to risk anyone overhearing their conversation and figuring out who they really are?
- Did you plan right from the beginning to have Gino come along on all the trips around Solest, or was that an idea that you thought of later? I've always seen him as quite a classic "supporter" character, but the fact that he travels everywhere together with the heroes gives him a lot of extra depth and screentime. Which is good, because he's a very nice character.
- This statement about Sparrow by Morias is something I find a bit weird. If it was more or less a known fact that Sparrow works for Kovak, wouldn't that cast a very bad light on him in public opinion? Maybe the Toutens are more knowledgeable about Sparrow than the average citizen because they are also criminals, but I still think it's odd that they would know details about this assassin who apparently was never seen during his actions.
- It always somewhat suprised me that Finley, of all people, is the first one to uncover Cade's and Bones's secret identity. Then again, while he might be self-satisfied and silly most of the time, Finley is not actually stupid. Either way, having him around is a lot of fun, and the fact that his enormous enthusiasm and desire to be a hero are the reasons he keeps quiet about the whole business are ironic in a funny way. But considering Finley is one of the most popular characters you ever came up with, you probably knew all of this already.
Also, the conversation that follows is brilliant, especially these kinds of reactions from Bones.
- I'm a bit confused as to why Cade and Bones would talk about going after Equipment King and other hero stuff in such a crowded place as the tavern. Shouldn't they be more careful not to risk anyone overhearing their conversation and figuring out who they really are?
- Did you plan right from the beginning to have Gino come along on all the trips around Solest, or was that an idea that you thought of later? I've always seen him as quite a classic "supporter" character, but the fact that he travels everywhere together with the heroes gives him a lot of extra depth and screentime. Which is good, because he's a very nice character.
- This statement about Sparrow by Morias is something I find a bit weird. If it was more or less a known fact that Sparrow works for Kovak, wouldn't that cast a very bad light on him in public opinion? Maybe the Toutens are more knowledgeable about Sparrow than the average citizen because they are also criminals, but I still think it's odd that they would know details about this assassin who apparently was never seen during his actions.
- It always somewhat suprised me that Finley, of all people, is the first one to uncover Cade's and Bones's secret identity. Then again, while he might be self-satisfied and silly most of the time, Finley is not actually stupid. Either way, having him around is a lot of fun, and the fact that his enormous enthusiasm and desire to be a hero are the reasons he keeps quiet about the whole business are ironic in a funny way. But considering Finley is one of the most popular characters you ever came up with, you probably knew all of this already.
Also, the conversation that follows is brilliant, especially these kinds of reactions from Bones.
Roadtrip to Pearlton:
- At the beginning of the game, I hadn't expected the Touten Corps to play such a significant role, but I'm glad it does. Most of the individual members as well as the concept behind the Corps are very fascinating. My favourite member is definitely Pilc with his weird intellectualism, followed by Cyneric and Morias. Grinfrak is a lot of fun, too, but he doesn't have much depth as a character and is kind of a stereotype of an ogre. Tyranda is not as interesting in my opinion, but the only one I never felt really had a lot of story or personality to begin with is Krom.
- I know these are RPG Maker resource restrictions, but the way Pilc is standing in the water looks weird, as if he were standing on it. Also, since when do squirrels sound like frogs?
- The story of Korrel might be the first instance of the results of an event from Clean Slate being directly shown in this game. I wonder how you are planning to make these kinds of allusions and backstories accessible in the new version. Especially later in the game, you might either have to cut some content or give the player some extra information.
- I like the fact that although Cade is seemingly "conveniently orphaned," he actually has a family backstory that involves more than his heritage and the death of his parents. Especially the part about his mother locking him up at home to keep him safe is quite a powerful story without being unnecessarily cheesy.
- An opportunity to save would have been welcome somewhere during this Touten flashback. Later in the game, you gave the player plenty of "intermission" opportunities, but the early Arcs don't really seem to do that much. This part is quite long, anyway, so giving the player some more things to do (for example by making more of the flashback interactive, perhaps?) could maybe help the flow of the game here.
- This piece of dialogue made me think: Does the game actually ever provide a reason for why the Toutens have come to Port Arianna in the first place instead of staying in their territory? I can't really remember.
- Just as an aside: The story of what happened when Shroud and Stoic originally met is probably my favourite little anecdote in the game. It's so simple yet so funny. How did you come up with it, anyway?
- I know these are RPG Maker resource restrictions, but the way Pilc is standing in the water looks weird, as if he were standing on it. Also, since when do squirrels sound like frogs?
- The story of Korrel might be the first instance of the results of an event from Clean Slate being directly shown in this game. I wonder how you are planning to make these kinds of allusions and backstories accessible in the new version. Especially later in the game, you might either have to cut some content or give the player some extra information.
- I like the fact that although Cade is seemingly "conveniently orphaned," he actually has a family backstory that involves more than his heritage and the death of his parents. Especially the part about his mother locking him up at home to keep him safe is quite a powerful story without being unnecessarily cheesy.
- An opportunity to save would have been welcome somewhere during this Touten flashback. Later in the game, you gave the player plenty of "intermission" opportunities, but the early Arcs don't really seem to do that much. This part is quite long, anyway, so giving the player some more things to do (for example by making more of the flashback interactive, perhaps?) could maybe help the flow of the game here.
- This piece of dialogue made me think: Does the game actually ever provide a reason for why the Toutens have come to Port Arianna in the first place instead of staying in their territory? I can't really remember.
- Just as an aside: The story of what happened when Shroud and Stoic originally met is probably my favourite little anecdote in the game. It's so simple yet so funny. How did you come up with it, anyway?
Pearlton:
- Is there any particular reason as to why Kovak is bringing Barry along on his trip to Pearlton? After all, he is just the "manager" of his store in Port Arianna. What business does he have in Pearlton?
- Also, if Kovak wants to set up a shop in Pearlton, why doesn't he simply hire people to build a new shop for him? He could easily push the other ones out of business. Though building a new shop from scratch and finding people to work in it might make for a higher cost than profit, I suppose...
- What's up with the whole "class warfare" nonsense, by the way? Is that another catchphrase like "hating business" to push people into an ideological corner? It's obvious you like to make fun of these kinds of empty phrases (which you did in Clean Slate, too), so I just wondered if this fits into that.
- Also, if Kovak wants to set up a shop in Pearlton, why doesn't he simply hire people to build a new shop for him? He could easily push the other ones out of business. Though building a new shop from scratch and finding people to work in it might make for a higher cost than profit, I suppose...
- What's up with the whole "class warfare" nonsense, by the way? Is that another catchphrase like "hating business" to push people into an ideological corner? It's obvious you like to make fun of these kinds of empty phrases (which you did in Clean Slate, too), so I just wondered if this fits into that.
I realise I'm starting to make less critical comments than I did at the beginning, because I'm just not seeing many things I feel the need to criticise. That might be because I'm starting to feel the hype again, so to speak. But another reason might just be that, as said above, I remember Arc III in general just being really good. Though we'll see in the next few sessions if it stays this way or if my memory failed me here. Until then!
seacliff217
2734
author=NeverSilent
And that's it, everyone. Arc II is over! Next time, we'll be tackling the third Arc.
Can't wait for this, the pacing in the third arc was a little off, but besides that it was great. I felt the two dungeons were pretty diverse and rememberable so reading another take on them should be fun.
Don't get me wrong, among the not-super-serious scenes in the game, the concert is one of my absolute favourites and just like Solitayre I would never want to see it cut. It's one of those things that make Master of the Wind stand out without it becoming silly, since Daydream actually have a purpose in Kovak's plans. (I specifically recall this scene, as it's a typical move of shady advertising to present people as authorities just because they are well-known.)
Concerning the music, I wouldn't be as pessimistic right away. It would at least be worth asking about the license. And you could also try to find an indie metal band who would be interested in working with you - I'm pretty sure there's some talented people out there you could ask.
Anyway, back to the playthrough. I've said this before already, but just in case, beware of spoilers in this or following posts!
Fort Drake, Take Two:
And that's it, everyone. Arc II is over! Next time, we'll be tackling the third Arc.
Concerning the music, I wouldn't be as pessimistic right away. It would at least be worth asking about the license. And you could also try to find an indie metal band who would be interested in working with you - I'm pretty sure there's some talented people out there you could ask.
Anyway, back to the playthrough. I've said this before already, but just in case, beware of spoilers in this or following posts!
Fort Drake, Take Two:
- I've been thinking about this and can't exactly remember if the game eventually answers it, but I wonder how much of Kovak's plans Barry actually knew about. For example, he helps with the plan to get rid of Shroud and Stoic, but is he aware that Kovak wants to have them murdered? And by whom?
- Fort Drake is named after Drake Ramzad, right? If so, this might be a good moment to give the player (and Cade) a brief glimpse at Solest's history, or at least have Cade ask about it so the name sounds familiar when it comes up again later.
- The amateurish "puzzles" in Fort Drake and the heroes' complaints about them were a really funny idea. It's a neat twist that you made crappy dungeon mechanics not intended to annoy the player, but as an actual little plot device.
- One thing I find unclear: How did Kovak know that Shroud and Stoic were going to split up, and where each of them was going to go? Or did he observe them from a distance and then send the right person to the right place respectively? But what would he have done if the heroes had stayed together? I doubt he could have convinced Gabriella to fight on Sparrow's side.
- The battle against Gabriella, and especially the argument that precedes it, is one of the more powerful serious scenes in the game. Seeing the typical image of the good-doing, innocent Priestess of the Light from a completely new perspective gives the player a good impression of the complexity and realism of Solest. Gabriella is obviously convinced she is on the side of good, as are most antagonists in the game, which shows how dangerous these linear concepts of "good races vs. evil races" are. I'm very fond of this scene.
- I know that many fans of Master of the Wind were absolutely obsessed with Sparrow. And while I personally was more interested in the overarching plot and the development of the main characters, I have always been of the opinion that a dangerous pursuer-type enemy can increase the suspense of a story by a lot. And with the whole backstory involved, you even managed to make the Sparrow so much more than just a creepy menace. So I definitely get why Sparrow was so popular among players. Also, all of the scenes in which Shroud has to confront Sparrow are extremely well-crafted and cinematic. (By the way, my very first thought was that it was just Barry in a costume, but that theory didn't last long. My second guess was Vec, then after that I stopped thinking about it and just kept playing until Sparrow's identity was finally revealed.)
- Out of curiosity, did you ever have a "canonical" idea of what Sparrow's voice sounds like? I always imagined it as being just a rough-sounding whisper.
- This battle is definitely not easy - which is a good thing, considering the buildup. You really have to keep in mind to heal earlier than usual because Sparrow is so fast. However, I wonder if there's something wrong with that scripted Sludge move, because I don't recall it ever having actually worked on Shroud.
- An excellent moment to introduce my second favourite villain, Solik Darmanus. Especially after having heard Stoic's perspective on life as an undead, and knowing about his problems with Rana, the timing for this appearance could not have been better.
- Fort Drake is named after Drake Ramzad, right? If so, this might be a good moment to give the player (and Cade) a brief glimpse at Solest's history, or at least have Cade ask about it so the name sounds familiar when it comes up again later.
- The amateurish "puzzles" in Fort Drake and the heroes' complaints about them were a really funny idea. It's a neat twist that you made crappy dungeon mechanics not intended to annoy the player, but as an actual little plot device.
- One thing I find unclear: How did Kovak know that Shroud and Stoic were going to split up, and where each of them was going to go? Or did he observe them from a distance and then send the right person to the right place respectively? But what would he have done if the heroes had stayed together? I doubt he could have convinced Gabriella to fight on Sparrow's side.
- The battle against Gabriella, and especially the argument that precedes it, is one of the more powerful serious scenes in the game. Seeing the typical image of the good-doing, innocent Priestess of the Light from a completely new perspective gives the player a good impression of the complexity and realism of Solest. Gabriella is obviously convinced she is on the side of good, as are most antagonists in the game, which shows how dangerous these linear concepts of "good races vs. evil races" are. I'm very fond of this scene.
- I know that many fans of Master of the Wind were absolutely obsessed with Sparrow. And while I personally was more interested in the overarching plot and the development of the main characters, I have always been of the opinion that a dangerous pursuer-type enemy can increase the suspense of a story by a lot. And with the whole backstory involved, you even managed to make the Sparrow so much more than just a creepy menace. So I definitely get why Sparrow was so popular among players. Also, all of the scenes in which Shroud has to confront Sparrow are extremely well-crafted and cinematic. (By the way, my very first thought was that it was just Barry in a costume, but that theory didn't last long. My second guess was Vec, then after that I stopped thinking about it and just kept playing until Sparrow's identity was finally revealed.)
- Out of curiosity, did you ever have a "canonical" idea of what Sparrow's voice sounds like? I always imagined it as being just a rough-sounding whisper.
- This battle is definitely not easy - which is a good thing, considering the buildup. You really have to keep in mind to heal earlier than usual because Sparrow is so fast. However, I wonder if there's something wrong with that scripted Sludge move, because I don't recall it ever having actually worked on Shroud.
- An excellent moment to introduce my second favourite villain, Solik Darmanus. Especially after having heard Stoic's perspective on life as an undead, and knowing about his problems with Rana, the timing for this appearance could not have been better.
And that's it, everyone. Arc II is over! Next time, we'll be tackling the third Arc.
Make Ercello a lightning mage, problem solved. Hell, maybe he invented all that stuff. The concert scene is great and I'd hate to see it go.
I don't suppose having 'metal' be an element would work?
I don't suppose having 'metal' be an element would work?
Volrath
2760
The concert scene was just one of those moments where we were like "Could we really pull this off?" and we just went for it. It is kinda tough to justify it within the wider lore but at the time that wasn't quite as developed and we just wanted to do something different. I'm glad we did and the heroes walking out on stage to confront Ercello is one of my favorite scenes.
We would want to do something like that in the remake, although I had some character changes in mind for Ercello himself. Naturally, the music itself would be tough as I don't imagine we'd have the budget to license Masterplan or really any other metal act.
We would want to do something like that in the remake, although I had some character changes in mind for Ercello himself. Naturally, the music itself would be tough as I don't imagine we'd have the budget to license Masterplan or really any other metal act.
At long last!
The Concert:
Sorry I kept you waiting for so long. Since I have a few weeks of mostly free time now, I'll try to make up for it by increasing my productivity. My goal is to post here about every second day.
Edit: Oops, I got my notes messed up. It's fixed now.
The Concert:
- I'm curious how you're planning to give Violet the necessary screentime to characterise her well enough if the "Emma subplot" is going to become smaller or optional. Do you have any plans for that already?
- Concerning what Reavenator said above: It is true that Daydream and their very modern music style and equipment feel a little out of place in a still not totally modern Solest. (I talked about the issues with technology earlier already.) At least the concept of rock/metal music existing in this world could have been mentioned earlier in the story to make it feel like something that fits the setting and not almost breaks the fourth wall.
On the other hand, this episode also does a great job at distinguishing the current Solest from the archetypal medieval fantasy setting. It's also a very clever plot device as it demonstrates the power of popularity: Its potential to bring people together, but also to manipulate them if misused. Not to mention that the atmosphere in these scenes is absolutely amazing.
- I really hope you're not planning on cutting the fight against Finley in the remake. Even though it's extremely easy gameplay-wise, I had great fun with this fight. Not only because Shroud and Stoic finally teach Finley (who has been really obnoxious until this point) a lesson, but also because nothing shows the interesting and not at all conflict-free dynamic between the heroes as well as a fight against a teammate. In addition, I approve of every opportunity for Stoic to make snarky comments.
- The buildup to the battle against Ercello is one of the best in the entire game.
- That battle was a bit harder than I remember, but not too difficult. Even though there are better boss fights in the game, this one is just a lot of fun due to the music used and the fact that it's only the second battle with a full party, adding to the epicness. By the way, that shield ability of Ercello is pretty macabre, if you think about it.
- All in all, I think it is true that this boss battle feels a little out of place - but that doesn't make it any less awesome. I think it's quite refreshing, in fact. I'm a bit worried how you could make it work without this music, though. Having an instrumental track alone probably wouldn't do this scene justice...
- I like the fact that Kovak, despite the player obviously being supposed to see him as the villain, still has his own philosophy to justify his actions, and that he's not shy about sharing it. He's not a well-intentioned extremist like Ketsu, for example, but it still demonstrates that, arrogant as he may be, Kovak does not see himself as doing anything morally wrong.
- Concerning what Reavenator said above: It is true that Daydream and their very modern music style and equipment feel a little out of place in a still not totally modern Solest. (I talked about the issues with technology earlier already.) At least the concept of rock/metal music existing in this world could have been mentioned earlier in the story to make it feel like something that fits the setting and not almost breaks the fourth wall.
On the other hand, this episode also does a great job at distinguishing the current Solest from the archetypal medieval fantasy setting. It's also a very clever plot device as it demonstrates the power of popularity: Its potential to bring people together, but also to manipulate them if misused. Not to mention that the atmosphere in these scenes is absolutely amazing.
- I really hope you're not planning on cutting the fight against Finley in the remake. Even though it's extremely easy gameplay-wise, I had great fun with this fight. Not only because Shroud and Stoic finally teach Finley (who has been really obnoxious until this point) a lesson, but also because nothing shows the interesting and not at all conflict-free dynamic between the heroes as well as a fight against a teammate. In addition, I approve of every opportunity for Stoic to make snarky comments.
- The buildup to the battle against Ercello is one of the best in the entire game.
- That battle was a bit harder than I remember, but not too difficult. Even though there are better boss fights in the game, this one is just a lot of fun due to the music used and the fact that it's only the second battle with a full party, adding to the epicness. By the way, that shield ability of Ercello is pretty macabre, if you think about it.
- All in all, I think it is true that this boss battle feels a little out of place - but that doesn't make it any less awesome. I think it's quite refreshing, in fact. I'm a bit worried how you could make it work without this music, though. Having an instrumental track alone probably wouldn't do this scene justice...
- I like the fact that Kovak, despite the player obviously being supposed to see him as the villain, still has his own philosophy to justify his actions, and that he's not shy about sharing it. He's not a well-intentioned extremist like Ketsu, for example, but it still demonstrates that, arrogant as he may be, Kovak does not see himself as doing anything morally wrong.
Sorry I kept you waiting for so long. Since I have a few weeks of mostly free time now, I'll try to make up for it by increasing my productivity. My goal is to post here about every second day.
Edit: Oops, I got my notes messed up. It's fixed now.
So, you really are remaking the game? Well, in that case I'l give my own Two cents:
Personally, the worst part of the game for me was Daydream themselves.
They just felt so out place for the setting.
the electric guitars and stage lights are especially jarring since I don't recall seeing even steampowered machinery in the game, much less electricity powered machinery (aside from Daydream, of course.) I suppose they run on magic?
After the concert, I tried to pretend they never existed, and needless to say, it irritated me when they came back in the finale, since it reminded me that they did.
Personally, the worst part of the game for me was Daydream themselves.
They just felt so out place for the setting.
the electric guitars and stage lights are especially jarring since I don't recall seeing even steampowered machinery in the game, much less electricity powered machinery (aside from Daydream, of course.) I suppose they run on magic?
After the concert, I tried to pretend they never existed, and needless to say, it irritated me when they came back in the finale, since it reminded me that they did.
Unfortunately, since I am currently not at home and have no access to my own computer right now, I won't be able to continue with the next part of this playthrough until the beginning of next week. I'm sorry for keeping you waiting, but I'll try to make up for it as soon as I can start playing again.
Volrath
2760
-Rana's forehead mark didn't become part of her design until long after that scene was finished. You would think that Stoic would have a sense that she was involved with dark magic, but dark magic has several disciplines within it so he might not have guessed she was an apprentice necromancer.
-Auburn had a comprehensive musical education when she was younger. This isn't said in the game, but I imagined she had played guitar in the past, just not bass. Although if we want to be really nitpicky, the song that figures into the music-lock puzzle is just straight up electric guitar, no bass...even though she's supposed to be playing a bass guitar.
-I remember one review we got said that "When he's Cade, he's a total G. When he's Shroud, he's a whiny little prick." I wouldn't put it quite like that but basically, Cade is the mask. He's trying harder to fit in. But as Shroud, he can let fly with his anger/resentment.
-As AB said, without the golem thing, the mansion sequence gets stranger the more you think about it. My recollection was that we didn't want to assign Enkur more battles for an arc that was already very heavy on them.
-Auburn had a comprehensive musical education when she was younger. This isn't said in the game, but I imagined she had played guitar in the past, just not bass. Although if we want to be really nitpicky, the song that figures into the music-lock puzzle is just straight up electric guitar, no bass...even though she's supposed to be playing a bass guitar.
-I remember one review we got said that "When he's Cade, he's a total G. When he's Shroud, he's a whiny little prick." I wouldn't put it quite like that but basically, Cade is the mask. He's trying harder to fit in. But as Shroud, he can let fly with his anger/resentment.
-As AB said, without the golem thing, the mansion sequence gets stranger the more you think about it. My recollection was that we didn't want to assign Enkur more battles for an arc that was already very heavy on them.
The party at Kovak's Mansion and the Concert are, in my opinion, the best parts of the game. Shroud storming the Hand's fortress was another high point.
author=NeverSilent
- I'll just say this the way I see it: That part about Kovak just allowing Shroud and Stoic to search through his mansion is one of the few plot points in the game that make no sense at all. Usually, Kovak is very secretive about his work, and even if he underestimates the heroes, there is no reason why he should invite them into his house, let alone leave incriminating materials in rooms they could possibly access. And Vec never even states a reason for letting the heroes in, such as Kovak wanting to prevent damage to his home that might be done if they break in. Also, the layout of the dungeon does not present any way to access Kovak's private room (where he currently resides). So if there is some (secret?) way to get there, why doesn't Kovak have everything that could be used against him hidden there?
Originally there was another scene where Kovak mentions that the mansion security will take care of Shroud/Stoic. The original design had Golems that would attack the players. I can't quite remember why we removed them. It's possible I just didn't want to work on more battles for arc 2. As it is, the dungeon doesn't make much sense.
Interesting factoid: Kovak's Mansion was mostly designed by Volrath. I designed the puzzles where Shroud levitates pots to activate switches and Stoic bullrushes the doors but the word puzzles and layout were Volrath.
author=Volrath
-The *sigh* and *snicker* thing may seem unusual for a video game, but I remember it being pretty common in comic books. I can see that it might look unprofessional by today's standards.
You're right, that is something typical for comic books. I hadn't even thought of that. Now I keep thinking that it might be an interesting idea to do this with actual speech bubbles - like having these words pop up in a speech bubble above the character's head while they're speaking.
Anyway, a little late, but nevertheless, here goes the Mansion dungeon:
Port Arianna:
- Okay, I take back part of what I said earlier about the upcoming technological breakthroughs not being as visible. Not only did I completely forget about the most obvious one, Finley's gunslinging, but also there's Daydream's show and music equipment.
- Though it's probably a little superficial, I'm a bit surprised nobody has ever asked Rana about what the symbol on her forehead means. Then again, all the characters have known her for some time now. But to the players, it might appear like you wanted to give them a much too obvious clue that there's something wrong about her.
- This picnic scene with Rana and Bones is really sad. I guess I don't have to ask where Rana got her ideas about an undead's happiness from... Though, I'm asking myself if the scene would have an even stronger effect if the player had gotten to know Rana a bit better beforehand. All we know about her by now is what we deduced from Andau and the heroes talking about her, and the visit to the hospital - and that is only optional.
- Now I'm a bit confused: How incredibly talented must Auburn be to be able to learn playing a new instrument within just one day's time? I think it would make more sense if they just secretly used a music crystal or something similar to replace Caipen's part, and let Auburn "playback" and just pretend to play the bass guitar as part of the show. That would even emphasise Kovak's and Ercello's scheming nature even more.
- Gino's questioning of whether it's acceptable to break the law in order to catch a supposed criminal is very interesting. I think it's a bit of a missed opportunity that this dilemma of how far you can go as a superhero/vigilante type before you're just like those you oppose isn't explored a bit more throughout the rest of the game.
- Just one little thing I noticed as an aside: Maybe I'm just imagining things, but I think it's really telling how Cade always sounds slightly more aggressive and determined when he's in costume. I really get the impression that the mask is what gives him a lot of his confidence and courage.
- Though it's probably a little superficial, I'm a bit surprised nobody has ever asked Rana about what the symbol on her forehead means. Then again, all the characters have known her for some time now. But to the players, it might appear like you wanted to give them a much too obvious clue that there's something wrong about her.
- This picnic scene with Rana and Bones is really sad. I guess I don't have to ask where Rana got her ideas about an undead's happiness from... Though, I'm asking myself if the scene would have an even stronger effect if the player had gotten to know Rana a bit better beforehand. All we know about her by now is what we deduced from Andau and the heroes talking about her, and the visit to the hospital - and that is only optional.
- Now I'm a bit confused: How incredibly talented must Auburn be to be able to learn playing a new instrument within just one day's time? I think it would make more sense if they just secretly used a music crystal or something similar to replace Caipen's part, and let Auburn "playback" and just pretend to play the bass guitar as part of the show. That would even emphasise Kovak's and Ercello's scheming nature even more.
- Gino's questioning of whether it's acceptable to break the law in order to catch a supposed criminal is very interesting. I think it's a bit of a missed opportunity that this dilemma of how far you can go as a superhero/vigilante type before you're just like those you oppose isn't explored a bit more throughout the rest of the game.
- Just one little thing I noticed as an aside: Maybe I'm just imagining things, but I think it's really telling how Cade always sounds slightly more aggressive and determined when he's in costume. I really get the impression that the mask is what gives him a lot of his confidence and courage.
Kovak's Mansion:
- I'll just say this the way I see it: That part about Kovak just allowing Shroud and Stoic to search through his mansion is one of the few plot points in the game that make no sense at all. Usually, Kovak is very secretive about his work, and even if he underestimates the heroes, there is no reason why he should invite them into his house, let alone leave incriminating materials in rooms they could possibly access. And Vec never even states a reason for letting the heroes in, such as Kovak wanting to prevent damage to his home that might be done if they break in. Also, the layout of the dungeon does not present any way to access Kovak's private room (where he currently resides). So if there is some (secret?) way to get there, why doesn't Kovak have everything that could be used against him hidden there?
In addition, it is very unlikely that a rich man like Kovak would use only non-dangerous security mechanisms to protect his house against burglars, especially since his normal property is valuable enough already to be worth stealing. And the suspension of disbelief for puzzle dungeons goes a long way, but having clues hidden in his own house that reveal the secrets of the security mechanisms (which Kovak already knows) is just absurd.
To be fair: I like the concept of this dungeon a lot, and many of its puzzles are very nice. But if you want to keep it the way it is now, as a puzzle dungeon with no combat and no danger of being caught and arrested, you really should come up with a better justification on Kovak's end than "Those two miscreants will never be able to get near my files."
- The library room in the mansion is a really clever way of introducing some more lore and background info while at the same time providing clues for the puzzles. In this context, such a thing works much better than for example the history quiz in the Gallian Church.
- I know this is silly, but I really like Stoic's phrase "I am mighty" that he uses every time he bull rushes something.
- I really like that greedy Fairy in Kovak's mansion, too. (Even though it just cost me 250 GP.)
- The music-activated lock is a funny idea in principle, but the solution is just so silly and improbable... Also, how do Kovak or Vec normally open that lock if they want to get in there? Are they both hobbyist musicians as well?
- After the end of the mansion dungeon, some more concrete information about Cade's backstory is presented. I think there's something special about how this is done: Often, dramatic backstories (especially of orphaned protagonists) are presented in a very over-the-top manner during crucial scenes. But here, this information is revealed by Cade almost as an aside, as a way to explain his motivation for one specific action which isn't even that significant for the plot. I think that this narrative strategy of gradually letting the backstory unfold instead of making use of big melodramatic revelations makes it feel much more natural and easier for the player to go along with it.
In addition, it is very unlikely that a rich man like Kovak would use only non-dangerous security mechanisms to protect his house against burglars, especially since his normal property is valuable enough already to be worth stealing. And the suspension of disbelief for puzzle dungeons goes a long way, but having clues hidden in his own house that reveal the secrets of the security mechanisms (which Kovak already knows) is just absurd.
To be fair: I like the concept of this dungeon a lot, and many of its puzzles are very nice. But if you want to keep it the way it is now, as a puzzle dungeon with no combat and no danger of being caught and arrested, you really should come up with a better justification on Kovak's end than "Those two miscreants will never be able to get near my files."
- The library room in the mansion is a really clever way of introducing some more lore and background info while at the same time providing clues for the puzzles. In this context, such a thing works much better than for example the history quiz in the Gallian Church.
- I know this is silly, but I really like Stoic's phrase "I am mighty" that he uses every time he bull rushes something.
- I really like that greedy Fairy in Kovak's mansion, too. (Even though it just cost me 250 GP.)
- The music-activated lock is a funny idea in principle, but the solution is just so silly and improbable... Also, how do Kovak or Vec normally open that lock if they want to get in there? Are they both hobbyist musicians as well?
- After the end of the mansion dungeon, some more concrete information about Cade's backstory is presented. I think there's something special about how this is done: Often, dramatic backstories (especially of orphaned protagonists) are presented in a very over-the-top manner during crucial scenes. But here, this information is revealed by Cade almost as an aside, as a way to explain his motivation for one specific action which isn't even that significant for the plot. I think that this narrative strategy of gradually letting the backstory unfold instead of making use of big melodramatic revelations makes it feel much more natural and easier for the player to go along with it.
I know some of my criticism might seem harsh here, but please know that in General, I did still enjoy this part of the game a lot.
Next session, there's a big concert coming up. That's going to be fun!
Volrath
2760
-The *sigh* and *snicker* thing may seem unusual for a video game, but I remember it being pretty common in comic books. I can see that it might look unprofessional by today's standards.
-The music crystal was one of those ideas borne from the limitations of RTP. Given MotW's setting, it would have made more sense to have a live orchestra at a party like that but there was no art appropriate for that (maybe we could have used Ercello's angels, but then they wouldn't be a surprise later). So I came up with the idea of the music crystal which I think was the first indicator of something unique about the Solest setting - the way in which magic and technology will join together as the society gets more advanced.
-Originally, I imagined the Hand Attendant (Christine) having a role similar to Cari. But then Cari came along and Christine didn't have much to do until we came up with a story for her towards the end. It's kinda messy.
I still love that party scene. It took an awful long time to do, mostly just testing the movement over and over and over for days, but it's one of the most memorable parts of the game.
-The music crystal was one of those ideas borne from the limitations of RTP. Given MotW's setting, it would have made more sense to have a live orchestra at a party like that but there was no art appropriate for that (maybe we could have used Ercello's angels, but then they wouldn't be a surprise later). So I came up with the idea of the music crystal which I think was the first indicator of something unique about the Solest setting - the way in which magic and technology will join together as the society gets more advanced.
-Originally, I imagined the Hand Attendant (Christine) having a role similar to Cari. But then Cari came along and Christine didn't have much to do until we came up with a story for her towards the end. It's kinda messy.
I still love that party scene. It took an awful long time to do, mostly just testing the movement over and over and over for days, but it's one of the most memorable parts of the game.
