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An unplayable mess of bugs and cliches



Gameplay: 0/5
The combat in Forever’s End is pretty standard ATB RM fare. There are no random encounters to be found and there’s a nice system where you can get the drop on enemies on order to surprise them and gain an advantage in combat. Unfortunately, this doesn’t really offer you any real benefit because of how easy combat is.

Virtually every non-boss battle can be won simply by mashing enter and attacking over and over. The enemies pose no threat to you whatsoever, making combat more of an annoying distraction than a key aspect of the game. The one exception is an enemy you encounter early on that takes virtually no damage from attacks, requiring you to use a skill.

This would almost be excusable if the boss battles were any more interesting, but they aren’t. The bosses I fought could be trivially defeated by simply using your strongest skills over and over until you won. There’s no challenge and the fights seem to be thrown in just to serve as a form of token combat to make the game anything but a linear walk from one cutscene to the next.

Early on, a monster catching system was mentioned but I never found myself bothering with it because monsters were so easy to defeat and because I saw no benefit to doing so. Since the game never posed a challenge, I never had to bother with sidequests or other missions to gain an edge. It’s unfortunate, because I’m sure a lot of time and effort went into this system that ended up coming across as an afterthought.

Although combat is extremely simple, I found myself confused in the beginning when I was thrown into battle without an explanation of how it works. What is the “Spirit” command? It doesn’t seem to do anything and I don’t recall it ever being explained. Why do I randomly perform a super attack when I take my turn? Considering how extensive the ingame tutorials are, I’m surprised that the game never explains these basic aspects of gameplay.

As bad as that is, that’s not the worst part of the gameplay. The worst part is by far the lag. With few exceptions, the game lagged severely on almost every map of the game. On three occasions, the lag became so bad that the game crashed. The lag is horrendous and makes the game virtually unplayable. If I hadn’t been devoted to playing the game so that I could review it, I would have turned it off within minutes of gaining control due to the insufferable lag. It takes an enormous amount of dedication to continue playing through the lag.

If that wasn’t bad enough, the game is plagued by a number of terrible bugs. On occasion, the sound will cut out in battle, which can only be fixed by quitting and restarting the game. A patch was just released which supposedly fixed the problem. Not only did the problem persist, but it actually made the game lag even worse than before.

To top it off, it is impossible to progress past a certain point in the game! After defeating a boss, the game abruptly crashes in the middle of a cutscene without an error message. I thought that it might have been due to the lag, so I reloaded and tried again (having to sit through a badly-written (see below) cutscene and then fight the boss for the second time) only for the game to crash again. Thinking that perhaps it was just my computer, I downloaded the game to my laptop and loaded my save to give it a third shot, but the game still crashed, at which point I decided I was done with this game.

As it stands, Forever’s End can barely be called a game. The only meaningful decision you ever make while playing is whether or not to use a skill. The gameplay aspects of the game are an annoying time waster and devoid of anything resembling fun or strategy.

Story/Writing: 0/5
The writing in Forever’s End is subpar, even for an RPG Maker game. The writing itself is plagued with basic spelling and grammatical errors, which violently rip you from any sense of immersion. It opens with a long, ranting monologue by the protagonist, an emo blue-haired boy named Epoch. Fortunately, you’re given the ability to change his name.

Epoch is annoying. No conversation is complete without him interjecting with a long-winded emo monologue about how much his life sucks, a habit that makes even Tidus seem bearable. I was completely incapable of sympathizing with him whatsoever because of how much the game makes a point of shoving in your face how much Epoch’s life sucks. Telling me how to feel is a sure way to ensure that I don’t.

This is one of few games I’ve played in which a silent protagonist would actually benefit the writing, and this isn’t just me taking another shot at Epoch. Epoch complains about all the unfair things he has to do and how wrong they are. Letting the player experience these events without side commentary about how terrible they are would encourage the player to think about what’s happening and draw their own conclusions (and considering how black and white the story is, the player would surely reach the same conclusions as Epoch).

The story itself is one of the most cringe-inducingly cliché plots I’ve seen in an RPG Maker game (and I’ve reviewed Mana Conquest). The king of a great nation is being influenced by an advisor whose name escapes me, so I’ll call him Jafar. Jafar wears all black and has a black emo haircut. The only way he could be more blatantly evil is if his name was Grima Wormtongue. Somehow, no one realizes that Jafar is evil and eagerly obeys his command to collect the magical supercrystals. Only Epoch sees through his deception and vows to stop him. Sound familiar?

Graphics: 1/5
There’s not much to say about the characters or tilesets; they’re generic RM2k3 fare and are bland and uninteresting. What’s most unfortunate about the graphics are the facesets. The game’s art looks really good, but had to be significantly downsampled and pixelated in order to work in the game. As a result, the portraits look very blurry and ugly. As if that’s not bad enough, they contrast with the art style of the rest of the game significantly. Downsampled high-res art looks terrible, even worse than the RTP. If graphics aren’t made with the limitations of the engine in mind, then it ends up clashing and looking very ugly. This is very unfortunate because you can tell that the original art must have looked great, but it’s been badly butchered somewhere along the pipeline.

Audio: 1/5
The music choices in Forever’s End are a rehash of the most-used songs in RPG Maker games. You can derive some entertainment from the game by playing “name that tune” with your favorite RPGs while mashing enter to get through cutscenes and battles.

There is a wealth of high-quality freeware music out there. When I hear the Terra Tower song from Chrono Cross in the middle of a boss fight, I’m not engaged. Instead, I’m now thinking about Chrono Cross and about how much of a better game that is. Don’t ever use music that people will recognize, especially when RPG fans are your audience.

On top of the poor music choices, the songs themselves are relatively high-quality, which clashes violently with the SNES style of the rest of the game and breaks the entire oldschool immersion. If you’re trying to make a SNES-style game, then use SNES-style music.

Experience: 0/5
I’ve touched on some of the big problems that Forever’s End has. Now I’m going to talk about some of the small problems, ones which themselves aren’t a deal-breaker but add up to make the experience of playing it what it is.

Text speed – The text moves along at a crawl. Any time there’s a pause in the text, it takes forever to move on. The dialog is already bland and unenjoyable; being unable to skip past it makes it even worse and makes the game even more of an Enter-mashing fest.

Slow animations – Treasure chests take forever to open and result in another text box, resulting in me wanting to avoid them due to how long it takes to actually get the contents and move on. The color fade out associated with tutorials is also unbearably long.

More bugs – There’s a journal system that tells you where to go, but any time you need to rely on it, it’s either out of date, inaccurate, or doesn’t actually tell you how to get where you want to go.

Pacing – The pacing in the game is excruciatingly slow even factoring out the lag. I was an hour into the game before I had even entered battle for the first time. Even Xenosaga and Persona 4 have shorter intros than that.

All of these put together make the game progress at a snail’s pace and result in much of the time spent playing it be staring at the screen waiting for a transition to finish, waiting for a treasure box to open, waiting for the pause in the middle of an ellipsis-ridden line of dialog to finish, or wandering around trying to find where you’re supposed to be going. This game wastes your time and a lot of it.

Suggestions:
- Fix the lag. In an age where we can get games with multiple 20,000 polygons running at 60 fps, a game with SNES-quality graphics should be able to at least manage a consistent 15.
- Fix the bugs, especially the random crashes. This is inexcusable.
- Having to change a game option manually at the start of the game is extremely tacky. Fix this.
- Get rid of all pauses in message boxes.
- Get rid of the awful red screen tint in the beginning.
- Get less recognizable and era-appropriate music.
- Make treasure boxes open more quickly.
- Cut out all dialog that isn’t 100% necessary. This includes all of Epoch’s monologues and ideally the intro text.
- I still don’t know what “Spirit” does. Please explain it.
- Hire a writer. I hate to say it, but your characters, writing, and story are really bad. You need someone who knows what they’re doing.

Bottom Line:
Forever’s End is a buggy, boring mess that is unplayable in its current form. It’s clear that the creator has a lot of potential, but it seems like that potential is struggling to shine in what’s a very poorly-constructed project. Some serious rethinking is necessary to make this game good. As it stands now, I can’t recommend it to anyone, even the most devoted of RPG fans.

Posts

Wow. Just wow. If I here Nico, I'd probably want to hang myself on my ceiling fan. It's one thing to point out the flaws of a game, its another to call it an irredeemable piece of crap, and the score on your review tells me exactly that.

I know that a lot of people here think that RPG games are serious business and the internet doesn't care about your feelings, but seriously? We're supposed to be a supportive community. We're supposed to point out the positive for someone who has spent YEARS making this game. This is not celebrating the mediocre. This is about showing respect to those who put time and effort into a piece of work made for free for people to enjoy.

Also, I would appreciate if people stopped attacking each other. I know I'm being hypocritical, but the only solution would be to just delete or lock the review. People have already said all they want to say and need to say. It's time to move on.
Decky
I'm a dog pirate
19645
Please permit me to respond to your comment about not knowing math. I think everyone knows what "average" means. We're not necessarily talking about the arithmetic mean, which in RMN's case comes closer to 3.15/5 last time I analyzed it. I think we were all referring to "personal" averages, which will vary depending on how the reviewer scores. But yeah, we should save that for a topic.
Sailerius
did someone say angels
3214
author=Saya
Wow. Just wow. If I here Nico, I'd probably want to hang myself on my ceiling fan. It's one thing to point out the flaws of a game, its another to call it an irredeemable piece of crap, and the score on your review tells me exactly that.

I know that a lot of people here think that RPG games are serious business and the internet doesn't care about your feelings, but seriously? We're supposed to be a supportive community. We're supposed to point out the positive for someone who has spent YEARS making this game. This is not celebrating the mediocre. This is about showing respect to those who put time and effort into a piece of work made for free for people to enjoy.

Also, I would appreciate if people stopped attacking each other. I know I'm being hypocritical, but the only solution would be to just delete or lock the review. People have already said all they want to say and need to say. It's time to move on.
I offered my suggestions on how to improve the game. The worst way you could show respect for someone who has invested so much time in a game is to simply say "it's amazing keep it up" without pointing out what they could do to improve. I also never said it was an "irredeemable piece of crap."
author=Saya
Also, I would appreciate if people stopped attacking each other. I know I'm being hypocritical, but the only solution would be to just delete or lock the review. People have already said all they want to say and need to say. It's time to move on.


deleting the review seems pretty terrible; there's alot of valid critiscism in there, just... at little aggressively put forth
author=GreatRedSpirit
If you guys want to post what the stars on a review mean don't throw it into a review's comments. Make a thread about it and post in it instead. Don't continue this derail any longer.

I understand you have the desire of discussing the finer points of what was written in a review. It's reasonable. But to this day, responses discussing the standards in a review has always been relevant and stars alone has never had clear enough context (despite reviews trying to give it some). It's what people want to talk about when they have a strong reaction. If the site ever wants to make a rule to deny discussion of a review's standards, by all means. Maybe RMN should establish an official meaning of their star system as a benchmark for reviewers to refer to.
I don't think it's fair to curve the game because of the endless pool of bad RM games but seeing the reactions in this thread makes me wonder what the review system is for if there is no set standards on quality based on the number of stars. From what it looks like now the standards of a review are set by each reviewer rather than a consistent scale.
author=Saya
Also, I would appreciate if people stopped attacking each other. I know I'm being hypocritical, but the only solution would be to just delete or lock the review. People have already said all they want to say and need to say. It's time to move on.


Censoring or locking an avenue of discussion because the eternally brewing racquetball that is debate is making someone shift around a little in their seat isn't the way to go either.
Decky
I'm a dog pirate
19645
I think a new forum topic is in order. I'm going to be afk, though, so someone else will have to make it.
author=Lowell_Richards
I don't think it's fair to curve the game because of the endless pool of bad RM games but seeing the reactions in this thread makes me wonder what the review system is for if there is no set standards on quality based on the number of stars. From what it looks like now the standards of a review are set by each reviewer rather than a consistent scale.


This is exactly right. More below.

author=Feldschlacht IV
Censoring or locking an avenue of discussion because the eternally brewing racquetball that is debate is making someone shift around a little in their seat isn't the way to go either.


Also a good point, which is why we haven't locked this.

I also have reservations about the score given in this review. The discussion brings up a lot of good points about review scores, manipulation if any, and reviewing standards. While I'd personally like this not to be the case, these easily-influences star scores for games affect the game's visibility. To us, not by a great deal, but we can't ignore what implications a star score gives to site visitors who aren't scene-savvy.

There's been a lot of discussion and topics about it before, but the matter is definitely not dead. If someone wants to make a new topic in Site Feedback about providing more effective ways of representing games on the site OR about how to make star scores work for users in a better and more accurate way, feel free to do so. Otherwise, feel free to send your feedback to myself or another mod.

Comments or criticism about this review may continue here, however.
For some reason it feels as if we played totally different games. I experienced no lag, actually had to think when fighting enemies for the most part (especially bosses) and was never confused about what different commands meant, etc.

As for the story and the writing--yeah, you've pretty much hit the nail on the head, at least for the beginning of the game. Epoch is really whiny, his monologues go on too long and the beginning of the plot reads like every Final Fantasy cliche imaginable mashed together into a single game. What I will say, though, is that after the first hour or so (after making it through the sewers once Epoch is imprisoned) I thought the plot improved quite a bit, with mysteries swimming under the surface and a handful of genuinely terrifying enemies mixing things up. What boss did your game crash at?

Anyway, you definitely aren't the first person to harshly criticize this game, and I think that you made some really good points. It's just that my experience with this thing appears to have been so incredibly different from your experience that I'm struggling to see how we could have played the same game.
Versalia
must be all that rtp in your diet
1405
author=yamata no orochi
It's just that my experience with this thing appears to have been so incredibly different from your experience that I'm struggling to see how we could have played the same game.

This happens a lot in real life.

OPINIONS ARE HAPPENING
author=Illustrious
I understand you have the desire of discussing the finer points of what was written in a review. It's reasonable. But to this day, responses discussing the standards in a review has always been relevant and stars alone has never had clear enough context (despite reviews trying to give it some). It's what people want to talk about when they have a strong reaction. If the site ever wants to make a rule to deny discussion of a review's standards, by all means. Maybe RMN should establish an official meaning of their star system as a benchmark for reviewers to refer to.


I'd rather see a general thread on a general topic instead of a general topic stuck in a game specific review. Hell half the last two pages barely had anything to do with the review except it being the spark. It's a better place for discussion that's actually visible. This debate comes up every time there is a
review and I'd like to get it out of the recursive hole it's stuck in.
Decky
I'm a dog pirate
19645
author=Fallen-Griever
author=Lowell_Richards
From what it looks like now the standards of a review are set by each reviewer rather than a consistent scale.
There's never going to be a truly consistent scale that critics use because personal opinion is always going to play a part. However, I do wish that more of the critics on this site wouldn't be so stupid/arrogant in ignoring the kind of scale that's applied in the bulk of professional and amateur videogame reviews written outside the RM* community. RM* critics who implement their own, arbitrary scoring system probably think that they're being clever when all they're really doing is causing confusion. People coming here from other sites should be able to compare RM* review scores with those for games outside the RM* community without having to attune themselves to the RM* community's low-score bias, but they're never going to be able to if people keep making retarded statements like, "2/5 isn't that bad a score, it's almost average LOLOLOL!!!!111one"

Unfortunately, the RM* community is full of idiots and I'm too stupid to leave.
author=Fallen-Griever
author=Lowell_Richards
From what it looks like now the standards of a review are set by each reviewer rather than a consistent scale.
There's never going to be a truly consistent scale that critics use because personal opinion is always going to play a part. However, I do wish that more of the critics on this site wouldn't be so stupid/arrogant in ignoring the kind of scale that's applied in the bulk of professional and amateur videogame reviews written outside the RM* community. RM* critics who implement their own, arbitrary scoring system probably think that they're being clever when all they're really doing is causing confusion. People coming here from other sites should be able to compare RM* review scores with those for games outside the RM* community without having to attune themselves to the RM* community's low-score bias, but they're never going to be able to if people keep making retarded statements like, "2/5 isn't that bad a score, it's almost average LOLOLOL!!!!111one"

Unfortunately, the RM* community is full of idiots and I'm too stupid to leave.
author=Fallen-Griever
author=Lowell_Richards
From what it looks like now the standards of a review are set by each reviewer rather than a consistent scale.
There's never going to be a truly consistent scale that critics use because personal opinion is always going to play a part. However, I do wish that more of the critics on this site wouldn't be so stupid/arrogant in ignoring the kind of scale that's applied in the bulk of professional and amateur videogame reviews written outside the RM* community. RM* critics who implement their own, arbitrary scoring system probably think that they're being clever when all they're really doing is causing confusion. People coming here from other sites should be able to compare RM* review scores with those for games outside the RM* community without having to attune themselves to the RM* community's low-score bias, but they're never going to be able to if people keep making retarded statements like, "2/5 isn't that bad a score, it's almost average LOLOLOL!!!!111one"

Unfortunately, the RM* community is full of idiots and I'm too stupid to leave.


Not sure if part of this is aimed at me, but I've been socialized to accept the lower-score culture around here :) Still, I would be all for changing that culture if it's justified.
Sailerius
did someone say angels
3214
author=yamata no orochi
What boss did your game crash at?

After fighting the red-haired chick to get the crystal. It happened when the advisor was talking. It always happens after the line: "Fine then, come at me!" I was six hours into the game at this point. At this stage, the plot and characters were terribly cliche - there was absolutely nothing compelling me to continue playing.

RM* community's low-score bias

I think you mean high-score bias. Why do you get a minimum three-star bonus just for making and finishing a game in RPG Maker?
author=Sali
I think you mean high-score bias. Why do you get a minimum three-star bonus just for making and finishing a game in RPG Maker?


I haven't seen this.
Solitayre
Circumstance penalty for being the bard.
18257
Wow, five pages of comments in a matter of hours. I respectfully relinquish my crown to the new master.

Regarding this review:

The last time I played this game, the lag was definitely pretty unbearable and made the game almost unplayable at some points. I readily admit my computer is ancient and couldn't play modern games when it was new, but lag in an RM2k3 game is ridiculous. I'd definitely look into a way to fix that. My strong suspicion is that it has to do with the hack that let Nico use .oggs instead of MP3s, but I can't be sure.

As for the rest, it's all a matter of opinion.

Yes, the story is highly cliche, but that didn't make me hate the game. Sometimes cliche is okay once in a while. Some cliches ARE cliches because they work.

Yeah, the protagonist is introspective and a little whiny but I liked that about him. Seeing a hero at their lowest is what can make it rewarding to see them go on to victory fighting for their beliefs.

The graphics have been done before, the story has been done before, etc. These are all things, but they aren't necessarily always bad things. Sometimes it can be interesting to see a different or more mature take on a typical RPG fantasy story. And sometimes it isn't.

Let's try to keep a respectful tone about all this for however much longer this storm rages onward.

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