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Super Mario RPG: The Seven Sages
(Speaking of fangames)
I played a bit of this, because I am a sucker for the Super Mario aesthetic. It's a style after my own heart. I also liked what you did with the classic Mario maps, and it's admirable how you maintained the spirit of the official games and added a few interesting things of your own.
But what concerns me most about this game is that you went for the Mario bros. dynamic (Well, plus Bowser), yet you didn't implement the very feature that made the Mario & Luigi RPG battles so interesting which is kind of missing the point (Could be circumvented by giving Mario a team of companions a la SMRPG). And what's particularly unfortunate is that Nintendo came out with M&L 3 shortly after and implemented him in such a way that sort of makes this game look bad. Still...good job!
There's quite a few things that I like about this game though and looking at your sequel, it can only get better. I guess I better give this a proper review soon....
I played a bit of this, because I am a sucker for the Super Mario aesthetic. It's a style after my own heart. I also liked what you did with the classic Mario maps, and it's admirable how you maintained the spirit of the official games and added a few interesting things of your own.
But what concerns me most about this game is that you went for the Mario bros. dynamic (Well, plus Bowser), yet you didn't implement the very feature that made the Mario & Luigi RPG battles so interesting which is kind of missing the point (Could be circumvented by giving Mario a team of companions a la SMRPG). And what's particularly unfortunate is that Nintendo came out with M&L 3 shortly after and implemented him in such a way that sort of makes this game look bad. Still...good job!
There's quite a few things that I like about this game though and looking at your sequel, it can only get better. I guess I better give this a proper review soon....
Sorry, but I love the idea of making fangames.
No, no, despite the CHARACTER being the same, it is is not the same fight as the Ocarina boss fight in terms of game mechanics. Not even looking at Dark Link's LoP behavior vs OOT Dark Link behaviour, the mere fact that LoP is on a 2D plane means that they are different.
Dragging Sephiroth into your game does not mean that FF7 mechanics come along for the ride.
Okay, no. To be honest, I don't feel like playing games at the moment (I didn't even get round to playing Paper Mario: TTYL. Best RPG I've ever played btw), but I downloaded it because people here were talking about it, not because it's a fangame. You don't see me digging up the archives of 'Final Fantasy: Sepiroth's Conclusion' (Ha, that would be the day). Still I checked it out for ten minutes though and despite some flaws with sprites and such, it already strikes me as a game worth playing over plenty of 'original' RPG Maker games. So no, it isn't 'unfair'.
Dragging Sephiroth into your game does not mean that FF7 mechanics come along for the ride.
post=135049
I'm just going to put my two cents here quickly. What you said about wanting to play Chrono Alter and the fact that you made this topic shows me that fangames can be sort of "unfair" to other games, since people who aren't "indie-gamers" are more than likely going to see a fangame and go for it immediatly, rather than trying something original.
Okay, no. To be honest, I don't feel like playing games at the moment (I didn't even get round to playing Paper Mario: TTYL. Best RPG I've ever played btw), but I downloaded it because people here were talking about it, not because it's a fangame. You don't see me digging up the archives of 'Final Fantasy: Sepiroth's Conclusion' (Ha, that would be the day). Still I checked it out for ten minutes though and despite some flaws with sprites and such, it already strikes me as a game worth playing over plenty of 'original' RPG Maker games. So no, it isn't 'unfair'.
Sorry, but I love the idea of making fangames.
But the fighting an evil version of your character is just a *concept*. Most games just give the evil doppelganger a similar moveset and leave it at that. It's the way that konjak executed it in this game that makes it special.
Also Dark Link is a recurring Zelda series character. Because he wanted Dark Link in that game, Dark Link must also come with a set of mechanics, and konjak needed to figure out how to reinterpret the character for a game like this. I assume that konjak did not decide to pull a doppelganger fight out of nowhere.
You may call it unfounded speculation, but it sounds logical to me. Same as if I were to make a fangame where Psyduck was a boss, I'd look at Psyduck's characteristics and design the boss around that. During that process, I may come up with an interesting mechanic for the boss battle that I would not have come up with if I decided to pursue my original game idea of fighting ham sandwiches.
Also Dark Link is a recurring Zelda series character. Because he wanted Dark Link in that game, Dark Link must also come with a set of mechanics, and konjak needed to figure out how to reinterpret the character for a game like this. I assume that konjak did not decide to pull a doppelganger fight out of nowhere.
You may call it unfounded speculation, but it sounds logical to me. Same as if I were to make a fangame where Psyduck was a boss, I'd look at Psyduck's characteristics and design the boss around that. During that process, I may come up with an interesting mechanic for the boss battle that I would not have come up with if I decided to pursue my original game idea of fighting ham sandwiches.
Sorry, but I love the idea of making fangames.
I haven't played that much of Noitu Love, but something that really impressed me about Legend of Princess is the Dark Link boss. I thought that was one of the most imaginative things I've seen in an action game.
Now, that boss must have come about as a result of Konjak looking at the Zelda series and thought 'how might I interpret this into an action game?' and came up with that cool Dark Link boss. If the Zelda fangame brainwave had not reached him and he had instead decided to make an original game, that boss would not exist.
Now, that boss must have come about as a result of Konjak looking at the Zelda series and thought 'how might I interpret this into an action game?' and came up with that cool Dark Link boss. If the Zelda fangame brainwave had not reached him and he had instead decided to make an original game, that boss would not exist.
Sorry, but I love the idea of making fangames.
Here's an example of a 'people-pleasing' quality game:
http://www.konjak.org/section.php?section=princess
Also, it's an example of a guy who's definitely skilled and talented but also felt the need to make a 'fan game' of sorts (It's closer to a fan game than homage) even if he prefers original works. He is only one person, and he still pulled it off. So yah
I'm curious about Chrono Alter now. I'm gna give it a spin
http://www.konjak.org/section.php?section=princess
Also, it's an example of a guy who's definitely skilled and talented but also felt the need to make a 'fan game' of sorts (It's closer to a fan game than homage) even if he prefers original works. He is only one person, and he still pulled it off. So yah
I'm curious about Chrono Alter now. I'm gna give it a spin
Sorry, but I love the idea of making fangames.
post=134968
yeah man i am remaking ff7 in rpgmaker2003 it's great!!
Oh really?? cool!! maybe you could edit some sprites from the 2D remake of Xenogears I+II on the DS!!!??!!?!??!?1?!?!?!?!:@!?!?!13}£?!"!£$@12
%$23
Sorry, but I love the idea of making fangames.
post=134898post=134864I did not say this. I was saying that what you said about KOTOR = Chris Avellone writing a fanfic that has George Lucas keeping an eye on it to make it officially sanctioned is the same thing as saying Star Wars V/VI is some fan-made film with just "official" sanction. It's like you're only trying to take in the example of KOTOR and block out other examples like Star Wars V/VI.
It seems as if you want me to say 'ha ha, Star Wars V/VI is fanfiction!' so you can all laugh at what a ridiculous idea this is.
Budget is not a defining quality, but budget is a major factor. The way you mentioned it, you downplayed it, which it shouldn't be. Most games are not made by a single person. If you're talking about RPGMaker, most games are made by teenagers in their spare time, and most never end up being released.
What does money do? It gives incentive to release since people get paid to finish what they are working on, or they have to finish a product to make a profit. Without a budget, you are unlikely to get the highest quality gameplay, graphics, music, and whatnot unless you are very talented or very lucky. (Although if you are very talented, you probably do that stuff for money.) That's why people make game design teams, so different people can do different work, and that's also why the best people at making games in the industry are people who are actually paid to do it. And these people make the highest quality and most polished games.
I'm not disagreeing with that. The reason that most RPG Maker games 'fail' or not get completed is because they're too ambitious, and most of these games are made by teams, etc. but this is an issue with homemade games in general and not just fan games. I'm suggesting fangame-making as an option because game design can become very difficult for one person.
And if I were to go down the fangame option, I'd probably reinterpret some obscure SNES game instead of going the FF7: Zero route where it looks like I'm just creating an extra module for the game a la Neverwinter Nights or Morrowind. It would be a fan game because I wouldn't feel right creating something completely original using other people's graphics. I am also open to idea of creating crude graphics with my limited art skills I suppose, but not *every single* aspect of game making appeals to me at the moment.
I wonder if my loving the idea of making fangames stems from Friday afternoons at primary school, when we had to rewrite fairy tales. My teacher thought I was good at it and so I received plenty of encouragement. He did not say lol fanficssux =P
post=134905
You just went on a rant about how everyone in this thread missed the point without ever mentioning what your point is.
What are you talking about? I certainly did not rant about 'everyone in this thread' missing the point.
Sorry, but I love the idea of making fangames.
post=134871
This discussion's becoming more idiotic with every post.
Listen, Weasel, I get that you like fangames and are working on one. That's fine, game making is a hobby, if that's what pleases you then go ahead, no one should be telling you how to spend your spare time.
But why do you persist in trying to persuade everyone that fangames are God's gift to humanity? If others don't like fangames then that's fine too, it's their choice just as yours is to like them. It's not like you're going to change anyone's mind on the Internet, man. It doesn't work like that.
'Cause, you know, you're trying to come up with a definition of fangame that is so detached from what's commonly been accepted that it's just silly. The main difference between a fangame and an official game (movie/book/whatever) is that fangames are made by amateurs with no or very limited budget, whereas official works do have a budget; furthermore, the producer of such game has paid for the rights to use the exclusive material that belongs (usually) to the original author/company. SO, if Lucas sells Star Wars right to a company that creates a manga version of Star Wars, then it's an official product and not a fangame. Whether the original creator had any direct input does not matter (I mean, is the original writer of Star Trek even still alive?); furthermore, whether it'll come to be regarded as canon is a different matter altogether.
The reason why so many dislike fangames is because they're made (to reiterate) by amateurs and their quality is very, very low compared to games with actual budget (= team of pros). With fangames you have something to compare them to, and the fangame will always pale in comparison to the original. Original games are in a better position, because they're not based on any existing work in particular.
I don't know DE, I think this discussion went fine for the most part. Your responses were the only downright 'typically internet' ones.
My intention of starting this thread wasn't to justify my making a fangame. I may have had ideas for a fangame and written down ideas/designs, but I have original ideas too (Far too many to handle, but who doesn't?). I'm definitely open to making fan games, but me posting this thread not a case of me 'hey I have a project but oh no it's a fangame i wonder what people on RMN will think so let me just post a thread just in case'. That's just a strawman you and a few others have set up, as well as the 'Star Wars is fanfiction' argument which I am not making (and I think you know this.) If you noticed I asked if anyone had any ideas for fangames, because they have no doubt come to me when I'm playing some of my favourite games (What if...? sort of ideas), but it has to be all RARLOLFANGAMESUXXXXXXX </internet>, doesn't it?
Oh, and budget is a factor, but not the defining quality. When someone wants to make Final Fantasy XIII-2 on RPG Maker, it's silly. It's about using your common sense really. 'Final Fantasy Monsters' in the spirit of 'Dragon Quest Monsters' but using Snes FF rips is viable, I'd think (Not that FF's monsters are memorable enough to warrant that game)
Sorry, but I love the idea of making fangames.
Aznchipmunk
Yes it does. While it is not inherently better, you are not taking into account the fact that the people who create the official work have "authorized sanction" because they know what they are doing and can produce quality. I'm not saying it's not possible to make a good fangame, as I stated in my first argument post, fangames are not necessarily any worse but there is like a 80% chance they just suck, because there are many flaws inherent in making a fangame.
post=134857
Official sanctioning is quality control.
Quality control that is not always effective. I can give you a list of series/franchises that have been placed into new hands and suffered for it. In the case of the Star Wars trilogy, I did not call it fanfiction because it is obviously NOT, but if you take away the negative connotations of 13 year old fanboy Marysue insertation fic, fanfiction is merely using someone else's property that has not received official sanctioning. That is all. Yes, it's more likely to suck if it's a fangame because most fangamemakers are 'a certain way', but 99 per cent of everything sucks ANYWAY. 'Don't make a fangame because it will suck' is silly, because if that's the case, whatever the person creates will most likely suck. As for the idea that you could be spending time making something original instead, why do you care? As long as the game is good in the end that's all that matters.
George Lucas obviously had a good chunk of involvement in Star Wars V/VI even if he didn't direct them, but if a bunch of people were in a room making up Star Wars-related stuff without his direct input, the process is no different to a fanfiction writer.
George Lucas's Friends:
I'm going to make a sequel to Star Wars in which a Jedi is on the run. Her name is Partha and she meets a one legged Wookie during her adventures.
George Lucas:
Okay, I agree! You receive my blessing!
= official work
Random Person:
I'm going to make a sequel to Star Wars in which a Jedi is on the run. Her name is Partha and she meets a one legged Wookie during her adventures.
George Lucas:
Dear Thomas Bilby , thank you for your submission. Due to the high volume of submissions, we may not always be able to issue replies to every entrant. Yours sincerely, Lucasarts
= fanfic
It seems as if you want me to say 'ha ha, Star Wars V/VI is fanfiction!' so you can all laugh at what a ridiculous idea this is. I am not saying that, because they are obviously not fan movies. I'm directly responding to your 'fangames lack the personal touch of the creator' comment because you make it seem as if fangames are doomed because of that, when if you look at the number of 'official' works out there with minimal involvement from the creator, that's clearly not true.
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