WETMATTOS'S PROFILE

Did i actually came back to see people using gendered epithets in my thread? People using tranny earlier wasn't enough?

I need a shower and some coffee before dealing with this >.<

author=Sooz

author=WetMattos
That aside, Sooz, i might ask you for a review on the primer i have been writing. It's far from complete, but if could take a look, just to point out if the tone i choose is adequate, i'd be very glad ^,^

Sure thing! :D

Can i send you what i already have done now by pm?

Mayhap, we'll see.

That aside, Sooz, i might ask you for a review on the primer i have been writing. It's far from complete, but if could take a look, just to point out if the tone i choose is adequate, i'd be very glad ^,^

@snowowl, while i think that the points you raise have merit, you have a somewhat limited perspective on what i see, and the social dynamics involved in this convo. I raise this really not as an attempt to bash you, but rather as a reminder that there are more things going on than what can individually be picked up here.

That said, i don't enter conversations about themes that demand some level of technical knowledge that i know nothing about, and if i do, i do so humbly, because i know very little about it. And there is a very high degree of contempt against social studies, some of which could be seen in this discussion, which combines with an expectation of availability of people who are marginalized to create a dynamic in which every single discussion about those themes must be an introductory level course. Or, worse, that it should be detached of the people doing it, which means that feelings must be left out, because when you enter a discussion how do you dare not being available for people? I know of marginalized people who have contacted me privately who won't enter the discussion, because the space isn't safe enough, even though i asked specifically to know of these experiences. So, in an attempt to cater to all requests, i'm alienating the people whose experiences i'm looking for the most.

So, do i expect you to take an year or two of gender studies to follow my discussion? No, i myself have no years of formal gender studies. Do i expect you to at the very least use google to look for specific words, and to tread with respect in a field that, as you said, you know little about? I regard that as a respectful approach, not only to the discussion but also to the people involved.

Even because, lest we forget, i have offered to make a glossary of basic terms, and many people took time to simplify my admitedly formal language. It's not like there is an explicit attempt on not being understood, much to the opposite. And, much to what i have answered in an antagonizing manner were, and i was not the only one to point that out, antagonizing comments. And everyone who has respectfully addressed my points, specially when disagreeing, have received respectful answers, to the best of my abilities - which, admitelly, have been very limited, specifically because i have been feeling unsafe here, and it cause me great anxiety to answer almost every post.

No one has been factoring the kind of distress some of the messages have caused me, specifically because they target me in the level of the discourse. So, when tyranos comes out to invalidate my life and struggles as a trans woman, i feel the violence within it, even if most people can't see to identify it. Sooz earlier seemed to suggest that, if i'm not fully available to discuss things, or if it causes me distress, i should come out, and, fuck, that is nasty attitude, because it means that i must be fully available for people regardless of the violence they inflict me. That my distress is a thing of personal sensitivity, and should be disregarded because discussions are for those who can do it. Again, i have other marginalized people who have been avoiding the thread, despite talking to me privately, because they don't feel safe about a discussion about their representation and their experiences. How contradictory is that?

Finally, it's worth point out that every single discussion on social justice in mainstream spaces - that is, every space that don't exist managed by and for marginalized groups - degenerates into this. This was even lampshaded by liberty, earlier. And it happens regardless of the tone of the op. So, i need to question if this is a question of tone and language, or a question of how the audience confronts such proposals - something that has been pointed out earlier by someone else as well.

P.S.: don't use transgendered to talk about transgender people. Transness is not a thing that happens to you, so one couldn't become transgendered; and suggesting that dynamic is normally seen as violent, for some people. I'd pay attention to it ^,^

EDIT: Kylaila, the request has been heard, but i have some things to do this morning, so as soon as i get back i'll answer it, 'k?

author=Kylaila
But not sure what you mean with the "it isn't seen as an interesting narrative" .. why would it not be interesting? Coping with problems is by no means an easy feast. Nor do you just magically feel better afterwards (as it happens so often in games, though)
Seeing shifts in thinking and behavior patterns are interesting to observe, at least to me.

Oh. I can see where i get confusing. I've said earlier that it's not enough to put marginalized characters in our already common narratives, it's important to change the narratives as well. Currently, narratives about coping aren't perceived as interesting and worthy of pursuing, in contrast with wish fulfillment, for example. In that sense, making a game about recovery and coping is an way to address the common narratives.

One that i find particularly subversive, btw.

@NeverSilent, to argue we are all humans isn't fallacious. But, the way by which this is raised in discussions is often a way of derailing.

Gonna get real personal here. Very often, my transness make me feel like a monster. The very way by which my transness is culturally understood suggests that i'm not worthy of being regarded as human. I'm actually more comfortable with narratives in which i exist without any other human beings around than else. Of course, one can argue this is a very particular feeling, but what we've managed to identify is that it's actually very common among people who are marginalized. That's because part of the dynamics of marginalization involve the dehumanization of people, that is, the creation of a cultural narrative that reduces their values as human beings. Racial epithets often are a manifestation of this, for example, as are sexist ones. Telling me that 'we are all humans' erases my issues, and if you create a world that functions exactly like ours, or close enough in their systems, but there i'm accepted and normal when i know that these systems are what prevents that from happening, i'm gonna get really uncomfortable.

So, yeah, when you say that we shouldn't fit people into normality, but rather address how 'normal' can include them, that's precisely my concern.