WHAT ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW?
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here's the thing: as HAL, you can't delude yourself into becoming a DAVE, because then you will be ULTRA miserable.
Also, happiness is not a competition.
Also also, the secret ingredient of my secret ingredient life is... there is no secret ingredient! aka there is *nothing to look forward to*
Get that thought out of your head that you need that to be happy. Because it doesn't exist. There is no secret ingredient! Live in the NOW.
Also, happiness is not a competition.
Also also, the secret ingredient of my secret ingredient life is... there is no secret ingredient! aka there is *nothing to look forward to*
Get that thought out of your head that you need that to be happy. Because it doesn't exist. There is no secret ingredient! Live in the NOW.
author=kentonaI know, that's why I wrote that I wish I lost any sense of critical thinking, so that I COULD actually go back to being DAVE.
here's the thing: as HAL, you can't delude yourself into becoming a DAVE, because then you will be ULTRA miserable.
Also, happiness is not a competition.I agree - I should have just written "who's happier?" but I guess there's a problem with that statement in that happiness isn't something that can be easily measured. whoops
Also also, the secret ingredient of my secret ingredient life is... there is no secret ingredient! aka there is *nothing to look forward to*Yeah, but I still think it would have been nice to be able to think that I had something to look forward to.
Get that thought out of your head that you need that to be happy. Because it doesn't exist. There is no secret ingredient! Live in the NOW.I want to live in the NOW. I really do. But I can't stop thinking about the future. I'm fucked up. Halp.
Kung-Fu Panda
------
I have a theory
makerscore increases happiness.
So if I get more makerscore
I get more happy
Eureka!
------
I have a theory
makerscore increases happiness.
So if I get more makerscore
I get more happy
Eureka!
author=Yellow MagicThat's an interesting way to put it.
I think if you take God out of the question, expecting any sort of lasting happiness is unreasonable. This is because, if one were to think rationally, one would realise that from some point in the future, one would become pure dirt - maybe ashes if they want to be cremated. If you can find any way to be happy about that outcome, more power to you. Personally, I don't see the silver lining, so the only way to be happy at any point is to be ignorant. Does ignorance = happiness?
I mean, life in general is a bit of a drag anyway, but for some reason looking into the future when it'll be all over makes it worse.
Now if I were a believer, I would always be able to say that "From some point in the future, God will release me from this world and go to Heaven or whatever floats my boat". That would probably make me happy for life if I consciously though about it 24/7.
Granted, I don't necessarily believe in LASTING happiness (I'm on the 'nothing lasts forever' boat, tbh), but yeah.
Also, ignorance and happiness are as interchangeable as you'd allow them to be, really. If you're just naturally a cynic who's all too aware of the flaws in the world (not calling you or anyone else one by any means, of course), then it can't really be helped, but if you're willing to provide yourself a mental filter and just remain idealistic regardless of any imminent problems, then that's great.
If any of this sounds retarded or misinformed, bear with me, since I've never been religious or have followed religion, though I've looked into 'spiritual' concepts and God a lot.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=Yellow Magic
It doesn't make a difference what the truth is!
- Imagine a person named DAVE who believes in God and the afterlife.
- DAVE spends his days thinking he's going to go to Heaven (or at least, there's a very good chance). He is happy as a result
- DAVE gets shot dead by OJ Simpson
- DAVE is dead, but while he was alive he was happy
Compare with
- A person HAL who does NOT believe in God and the afterlife
- Is miserable because he lacks that *something to look forward to* feeling that DAVE has
- HAL gets fatally run over by Lewis Hamilton
- HAL is dead, but while he was alive he was miserable
who wins?
Of course, the whole "happiness is a state of mind" should play a part, and I'm not saying it doesn't. I think it's clear that DAVE has the advantage in this scenario over HAL.
Not necessarily. You see, in death we suffer no longer. If DAVE spent his life happy and is then taken down to neutral through death, it's a net loss. HAL, on the other hand, is miserable in life and his misery is ended by getting run over. Now, he's brought back up to neutral (a gain) and no longer has to feel misery which is another plus.
HAL wins.
Then again, he could come to terms with the fact that every waking minute is a minute he wouldn't have otherwise and find joy in simply being alive. Even in suffering, to be part of this world at this time is greater than any loss and should be cherished accordingly.
author=Yellow Magicauthor=kentonaYeah, but I still think it would have been nice to be able to think that I had something to look forward to.
Also also, the secret ingredient of my secret ingredient life is... there is no secret ingredient! aka there is *nothing to look forward to*
If you spend your whole life looking forward to tomorrow, you'll never appreciate and make use of today. The thing about tomorrow is that it never comes, so ultimately waiting for it is waiting for a moment that for you, personally, won't be today which only occurs at the loss of everything that supports your sentience a.k.a death.
this topic is giving me an existential crisis
edit:
how does not believing in a god make you suffer? being occupied with the superficial tasks of everyday life should be enough to keep your mind out of that sort of thing
edit:
how does not believing in a god make you suffer? being occupied with the superficial tasks of everyday life should be enough to keep your mind out of that sort of thing
why the hell is a download of a really assy RPG Maker XP game I made still up even though I've done everything to get the page taken off
It even says it's been deleted
Upside is, I can keep rediscovering it after long periods of time so I can open it up and go "Wow.. this is shit"
EDIT: furthermore, it's nice to come back after a while and see a bunch of names/pictures I don't recognize in any way. I get to meet new people :D
It even says it's been deleted
Upside is, I can keep rediscovering it after long periods of time so I can open it up and go "Wow.. this is shit"
EDIT: furthermore, it's nice to come back after a while and see a bunch of names/pictures I don't recognize in any way. I get to meet new people :D
God didn't create us. We created god.
Yellow, the secret isn't to find happiness: it's to find balance. The idea that there is a "reason" is a symptom of our logical and rational brain. Humans have a tendency to see patterns where there are none. That's because we view the world in "processes", or in "linear" terms. Why? Because we're trained to. By whom? Our parents and teachers, vis a vis, society. A leads to B leads to C. Happiness, like sadness, is an extreme. It is imbalance.
By making peace with ourselves, we find that those things make us sad--sorrow--will, as all things do, pass away, and those things that make us happy--the denial of sorrow--will, as all things must, pass away also. Upon this understanding we rise above such vices and find euphoria, the knowledge that all is right in the universe and that we are a part of that.
Euphoria is, by far, greater than happiness.
Yellow, the secret isn't to find happiness: it's to find balance. The idea that there is a "reason" is a symptom of our logical and rational brain. Humans have a tendency to see patterns where there are none. That's because we view the world in "processes", or in "linear" terms. Why? Because we're trained to. By whom? Our parents and teachers, vis a vis, society. A leads to B leads to C. Happiness, like sadness, is an extreme. It is imbalance.
By making peace with ourselves, we find that those things make us sad--sorrow--will, as all things do, pass away, and those things that make us happy--the denial of sorrow--will, as all things must, pass away also. Upon this understanding we rise above such vices and find euphoria, the knowledge that all is right in the universe and that we are a part of that.
Euphoria is, by far, greater than happiness.
author=zacheatscrackers
That's an interesting way to put
Also, ignorance and happiness are as interchangeable as you'd allow them to be, really. If you're just naturally a cynic who's all too aware of the flaws in the world (not calling you or anyone else one by any means, of course), then it can't really be helped, but if you're willing to provide yourself a mental filter and just remain idealistic regardless of any imminent problems, then that's great.
A mental filter just sounds like a codeword for ignorance :( Cynicism it is!
author=Corfaisus
Not necessarily. You see, in death we suffer no longer. If DAVE spent his life happy and is then taken down to neutral through death, it's a net loss. HAL, on the other hand, is miserable in life and his misery is ended by getting run over. Now, he's brought back up to neutral (a gain) and no longer has to feel misery which is another plus.
HAL wins.
Is it the net gain/loss that matters or though? This is trying to discretise something that can't really be discretised very well, but at the end of the day DAVE was happy and HAL wasn't. I don't know.
author=Yellow Magic
If you spend your whole life looking forward to tomorrow, you'll never appreciate and make use of today. The thing about tomorrow is that it never comes, so ultimately waiting for it is waiting for a moment that for you, personally, won't be today which only occurs at the loss of everything that supports your sentience a.k.a death.
Well, to be honest, "today" hasn't been great for about as long as I can remember. Maybe I'm too much of a cynic to remember the happy moments, in which case it's off to therapy woo
author=Adon237
how does not believing in a god make you suffer? being occupied with the superficial tasks of everyday life should be enough to keep your mind out of that sort of thing
Not when your everyday life is under control and you don't have much to do other than wait for the next phase of your life (graduating in a couple of months and starting corporate full-time work in September - maybe this is why I feel this way...)
author=pianotm
By making peace with ourselves, we find that those things make us sad--sorrow--will, as all things do, pass away, and those things that make us happy--the denial of sorrow--will, as all things must, pass away also. Upon this understanding we rise above such vices and find euphoria, the knowledge that all is right in the universe and that we are a part of that.
Euphoria is, by far, greater than happiness.
That's an interesting way of looking for it...
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=Yellow Magicauthor=CorfaisusWell, to be honest, "today" hasn't been great for about as long as I can remember. Maybe I'm too much of a cynic to remember the happy moments, in which case it's off to therapy woo
If you spend your whole life looking forward to tomorrow, you'll never appreciate and make use of today. The thing about tomorrow is that it never comes, so ultimately waiting for it is waiting for a moment that for you, personally, won't be today which only occurs at the loss of everything that supports your sentience a.k.a death.
It might do you some good. It's not a sign of weakness to seek help.
I know: Half of my RL friends are getting some sort of professional help. It's just that my cynicism prevents me from being seen for cynicism. ;p
The only goal in life is the one you make for it. That's it. Your goals define your life. Does that mean you have to reach each and every one to consider your life well-lived?
No. Not at all.
Sometimes no matter how hard you try, certain things are out of your reach, but that's the way of it for every person. That's why we work together - because together there's obstacles that can be pushed aside by another person and perhaps you can then reach that goal. But even with someone's help, sometimes a goal remains just that - something to reach for and hope on but not to touch. And there's nothing wrong with that. Not everyone can be a hero or princess or astronaut.
That said, there's nothing wrong with living a life in which not much seems to occur. As long as you feel that said life was worth it, as long as you enjoyed your life, that's all that ever matters.
No. Not at all.
Sometimes no matter how hard you try, certain things are out of your reach, but that's the way of it for every person. That's why we work together - because together there's obstacles that can be pushed aside by another person and perhaps you can then reach that goal. But even with someone's help, sometimes a goal remains just that - something to reach for and hope on but not to touch. And there's nothing wrong with that. Not everyone can be a hero or princess or astronaut.
That said, there's nothing wrong with living a life in which not much seems to occur. As long as you feel that said life was worth it, as long as you enjoyed your life, that's all that ever matters.
I think the thing that Yellow Magic is looking for is catharsis, because that's what I was looking for too when I had these existential questions plague me. So I went and dug up a passage from my favorite book, The Farthest Shore.
Pardon, if its a little long.
The moral that I took away when I read that is that fixating on an immaterial existence that may or may not be waiting for us upon death isn't the root of what it means to live, and spending your life waiting for the peaceful oblivion of death is missing the point of life. Death is the antithesis of life, and as a result they both give each other their value.
Those who spend their waking days preparing for a possible peaceful afterlife are missing the point of what it means to live. Which I personally believe to be personal fulfillment: I'm currently down in the dumps right now myself (well longer than now really) because I feel that I'm not a person of worth. I don't really contribute to society, I don't have much of a social life, and I don't give anything back to the world of merit. Years ago, I didn't know what the hell was making me so miserable and why I felt so empty and the world so grey, but that's what I narrowed it down to.
Or something. I can't really articulate what I mean.
What I need to do, and any other person looking to live a fuller life, is do what Corfasius said and be selfless. But not to pursue it with religious zeal as if its some dogmatic ideal, but rather to take joy in other people: Find joy in their joy. By yourself, with no relationships or meaningful connections, you can't say that you've been enriched as a person, y'know?
************************************************
"You have come to the Dry River," said the voice. "You cannot go back to the wall of stones. You cannot go back to life."
"Not that way," said Ged, speaking into the darkness. "But we would learn your way." There was no answer.
"We meet as equals here. If you are blind, Cob, yet we are in the dark." There was no answer.
"We cannot hurt you here; we cannot kill you. What is there to fear?"
"I have no fear," said the voice in the darkness. Then slowly, glimmering a little as with that light that sometimes clung to Ged's staff, the man appeared. standing some way upstream from Ged and Arren, among the great, dim masses of the boulders. So he appeared in the spirit, in the kingdom of death, not burnt by the dragon's fire, not maimed; but not whole. The sockets of his eyes were empty.
"I have no fear," he said. "What should a dead man fear?" He laughed. The sound of laughter rang so false and uncanny, there in that narrow stony valley under the mountains, that Arren's breath failed him for a moment. But he gripped his sword and listened.
"I do not know what a dead man should fear," Ged answered. "Surely not death? Yet it seems you fear it. Even though you have a found a way to escape from it."
"I have. I live: my body lives."
"Not well," the mage said dryly. "Illusion might hide age; but Orm Embar was not gentle with that body."
"I can mend it. I know secrets of healing and of youth. No mere illusions. What do you take me for? Because you are called Archmage, do you take me for a village sorcerer? I who alone among all mages found the Way of Immortality, which no other ever found!"
"Maybe we did not seek it," said Ged.
"You sought it. All of you. You sought it and could not find it, and so made wise words about acceptance and balance and the equilibrium of life and death. But they were words -- lies to cover your failure -- to cover your fear of death! What man would not live forever, if he could? And I can. I am immortal. I did what you could not do and therefore I am your master; and you know it. The door I opened is open not only here, but in the minds of the living, in the depths and unknown places of their being, where we are all one in the darkness. They know it, and they come to me. And the dead too must come to me, all of them, for I have not lost the magery of the living: They must climb over the wall of stones when I bid them, all the souls, the lords, the mages, the proud women; back and forth from life to death, at my command. All must come to me, the living and the dead, I who died and live!"
"Where do they come to you, Cob? Where is it that you are?"
"Between the worlds."
"But that is neither life nor death. What is life, Cob?"
"Power."
"What is love?"
"Power," the blind man repeated heavily, hunching up his shoulders.
"What is light?"
"Darkness!"
"What is your name?"
"I have none."
"All in this land bear their true name."
"Tell me yours, then!"
"I am named Ged. And you?"
The blind man hesistated, and said, "Cob."
"That was your use-name, not your name. Where is your name? Where is the truth of you? Did you leave it in Paln where you died? You have forgotten much, O Lord of the Two Lands. You have forgotten light, and love, and your own name.
"I have your name now, and power over you, Ged the Archmage -- Ged who was Archmage when he was alive!"
"My name is no use to you," Ged said. "You have no power over me at all. I am a living man; my body lies on the beach of Selidor, under the sun, on the turning earth. And when that body dies, I will be here: but only in name, in name alone, in shadow. Do you not understand? Did you never understand, you who called up so many shadows from the dead, who summoned all the hosts of the perished, even my lord Erreth-Akbe, wisest of us all? Did you not understand that he, even he, is but a shadow and a name? His death did not diminish life. Nor did it dimiminish him. He is there -- there not here! Here is nothing, dust and shadows. There, he is the earth and the sunlight, the leaves of trees, the eagle's flight. He is alive. And all who ever died, live; they are reborn and have no end, nor will there ever be an end. All, save you. For you would not have death. You lost death, you lost life, in order to save yourself. Yourself! Your immortal self! What is it? Who are you?"
"I am myself. My body will not decay and die--"
"A living body suffers pain, Cob; a living body grows old; it dies. Death is the price we pay for our life and for all life."
"I do not pay it! I can die and in that moment live again! I cannot be killed; I am immortal. I alone am myself forever!"
"Who are you then?"
"The Immortal One."
"Say your name."
"The King."
"Say my name. I told it to you but a minute since. Say my name!"
"You are not real. You have no name. Only I exist."
"You exist: without name, without form. You cannot see the light of day; you cannot see the dark. You sold the green earth and the sun and stars to save yourself. But you have no self. All that which you sold, that is yourself. You have given everything for nothing. And so now you seek to draw the world to you, all that light and life you lost, to fill up your nothingness. But it cannot be filled. Not all the songs of earth, not all the stars of heaven, could fill up your emptiness."
********************************************************
"You have come to the Dry River," said the voice. "You cannot go back to the wall of stones. You cannot go back to life."
"Not that way," said Ged, speaking into the darkness. "But we would learn your way." There was no answer.
"We meet as equals here. If you are blind, Cob, yet we are in the dark." There was no answer.
"We cannot hurt you here; we cannot kill you. What is there to fear?"
"I have no fear," said the voice in the darkness. Then slowly, glimmering a little as with that light that sometimes clung to Ged's staff, the man appeared. standing some way upstream from Ged and Arren, among the great, dim masses of the boulders. So he appeared in the spirit, in the kingdom of death, not burnt by the dragon's fire, not maimed; but not whole. The sockets of his eyes were empty.
"I have no fear," he said. "What should a dead man fear?" He laughed. The sound of laughter rang so false and uncanny, there in that narrow stony valley under the mountains, that Arren's breath failed him for a moment. But he gripped his sword and listened.
"I do not know what a dead man should fear," Ged answered. "Surely not death? Yet it seems you fear it. Even though you have a found a way to escape from it."
"I have. I live: my body lives."
"Not well," the mage said dryly. "Illusion might hide age; but Orm Embar was not gentle with that body."
"I can mend it. I know secrets of healing and of youth. No mere illusions. What do you take me for? Because you are called Archmage, do you take me for a village sorcerer? I who alone among all mages found the Way of Immortality, which no other ever found!"
"Maybe we did not seek it," said Ged.
"You sought it. All of you. You sought it and could not find it, and so made wise words about acceptance and balance and the equilibrium of life and death. But they were words -- lies to cover your failure -- to cover your fear of death! What man would not live forever, if he could? And I can. I am immortal. I did what you could not do and therefore I am your master; and you know it. The door I opened is open not only here, but in the minds of the living, in the depths and unknown places of their being, where we are all one in the darkness. They know it, and they come to me. And the dead too must come to me, all of them, for I have not lost the magery of the living: They must climb over the wall of stones when I bid them, all the souls, the lords, the mages, the proud women; back and forth from life to death, at my command. All must come to me, the living and the dead, I who died and live!"
"Where do they come to you, Cob? Where is it that you are?"
"Between the worlds."
"But that is neither life nor death. What is life, Cob?"
"Power."
"What is love?"
"Power," the blind man repeated heavily, hunching up his shoulders.
"What is light?"
"Darkness!"
"What is your name?"
"I have none."
"All in this land bear their true name."
"Tell me yours, then!"
"I am named Ged. And you?"
The blind man hesistated, and said, "Cob."
"That was your use-name, not your name. Where is your name? Where is the truth of you? Did you leave it in Paln where you died? You have forgotten much, O Lord of the Two Lands. You have forgotten light, and love, and your own name.
"I have your name now, and power over you, Ged the Archmage -- Ged who was Archmage when he was alive!"
"My name is no use to you," Ged said. "You have no power over me at all. I am a living man; my body lies on the beach of Selidor, under the sun, on the turning earth. And when that body dies, I will be here: but only in name, in name alone, in shadow. Do you not understand? Did you never understand, you who called up so many shadows from the dead, who summoned all the hosts of the perished, even my lord Erreth-Akbe, wisest of us all? Did you not understand that he, even he, is but a shadow and a name? His death did not diminish life. Nor did it dimiminish him. He is there -- there not here! Here is nothing, dust and shadows. There, he is the earth and the sunlight, the leaves of trees, the eagle's flight. He is alive. And all who ever died, live; they are reborn and have no end, nor will there ever be an end. All, save you. For you would not have death. You lost death, you lost life, in order to save yourself. Yourself! Your immortal self! What is it? Who are you?"
"I am myself. My body will not decay and die--"
"A living body suffers pain, Cob; a living body grows old; it dies. Death is the price we pay for our life and for all life."
"I do not pay it! I can die and in that moment live again! I cannot be killed; I am immortal. I alone am myself forever!"
"Who are you then?"
"The Immortal One."
"Say your name."
"The King."
"Say my name. I told it to you but a minute since. Say my name!"
"You are not real. You have no name. Only I exist."
"You exist: without name, without form. You cannot see the light of day; you cannot see the dark. You sold the green earth and the sun and stars to save yourself. But you have no self. All that which you sold, that is yourself. You have given everything for nothing. And so now you seek to draw the world to you, all that light and life you lost, to fill up your nothingness. But it cannot be filled. Not all the songs of earth, not all the stars of heaven, could fill up your emptiness."
********************************************************
Pardon, if its a little long.
The moral that I took away when I read that is that fixating on an immaterial existence that may or may not be waiting for us upon death isn't the root of what it means to live, and spending your life waiting for the peaceful oblivion of death is missing the point of life. Death is the antithesis of life, and as a result they both give each other their value.
Those who spend their waking days preparing for a possible peaceful afterlife are missing the point of what it means to live. Which I personally believe to be personal fulfillment: I'm currently down in the dumps right now myself (well longer than now really) because I feel that I'm not a person of worth. I don't really contribute to society, I don't have much of a social life, and I don't give anything back to the world of merit. Years ago, I didn't know what the hell was making me so miserable and why I felt so empty and the world so grey, but that's what I narrowed it down to.
Or something. I can't really articulate what I mean.
What I need to do, and any other person looking to live a fuller life, is do what Corfasius said and be selfless. But not to pursue it with religious zeal as if its some dogmatic ideal, but rather to take joy in other people: Find joy in their joy. By yourself, with no relationships or meaningful connections, you can't say that you've been enriched as a person, y'know?
Now I see why I felt sick to my stomach with this discussion.
To put it bluntly, I fear people.
I strongly desire nothing to do with them, I find I can't do what I'd like to do when they're around. To me they feel like chains.
Yet there are so many persons I couldn't live without and love to death, I can't understand why I like the persons and not the people.
And because I'm inexperienced thinking about this just make my stomach churn, so I just forgot about it, don't think about it and it won't bother me, and even if I know this statement to just be stalling, I still believe it to work ;_;
author=Isrieri
but rather to take joy in other people: Find joy in their joy. By yourself, with no relationships or meaningful connections, you can't say that you've been enriched as a person
To put it bluntly, I fear people.
I strongly desire nothing to do with them, I find I can't do what I'd like to do when they're around. To me they feel like chains.
Yet there are so many persons I couldn't live without and love to death, I can't understand why I like the persons and not the people.
And because I'm inexperienced thinking about this just make my stomach churn, so I just forgot about it, don't think about it and it won't bother me, and even if I know this statement to just be stalling, I still believe it to work ;_;
@Liberty and Isrieri: You guys made really good points. Thank you. <3
I'm really sorry if this discussion's depressed you in any way. It really helps to keep an open mind when it comes to people, though. Generally they won't bother you if you don't bother them - largely because everyone's so worried about their own lives, they don't have time to think about yours.
author=seiromem
To put it bluntly, I fear people.
I strongly desire nothing to do with them, I find I can't do what I'd like to do when they're around. To me they feel like chains.
Yet there are so many persons I couldn't live without and love to death, I can't understand why I like the persons and not the people.
And because I'm inexperienced thinking about this just make my stomach churn, so I just forgot about it, don't think about it and it won't bother me, and even if I know this statement to just be stalling, I still believe it to work ;_;
I'm really sorry if this discussion's depressed you in any way. It really helps to keep an open mind when it comes to people, though. Generally they won't bother you if you don't bother them - largely because everyone's so worried about their own lives, they don't have time to think about yours.
I have no time for depression, don't worry about that.
I personally think that this discussion has been very insightful. I've talked about more depressing things in the past, so I don't necessarily feel empty after giving my piece.
Just watched the latest Smash Direct. I'M BEYOND HYPE FOR THIS GAME!
But Saki! You're still an Assist Trophy nuuuuuuuuuuuu!! ;_; Someone hold on to my heart - I think it just sank a little...
(This has been your regularly scheduled mood-whiplash)
But Saki! You're still an Assist Trophy nuuuuuuuuuuuu!! ;_; Someone hold on to my heart - I think it just sank a little...
(This has been your regularly scheduled mood-whiplash)
After hearing that Pong is an assist trophy and knowing that Little Mac will be a fighter, I care about nothing else.




















