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WHAT ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW?
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bahlete442456234996
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Yes, but I'm certainly fucking certain that there are innocent families whose members were gunned down who curse the people who ever made that stupid law and wish that guns were gone from every place.
As I said, when I see mass shootings in America, I no longer feel sorrow and pity but instead a sense of 'well, you did this to yourselves.' It's horrible to say that and to feel it, too, because it's sad that loss of life is met with that but honestly, you all cry over the dead children killed in all the school shootings but in the next breath demand someone do something... as long as they don't take your guns. Which would do something.
We lost 30 or so people in a mass shooting and the government took the guns. We've had a small handful of those kinds of incidents since then (1996) and most of them have had one or two deaths and a few wounded. Nothing like the almost-monthly destruction of your children.
Our kids don't have to walk through fucking metal detectors every day at school. Our kids don't learn about rolling into a ball and hiding under their desks in fear or making a sound that draws the attention of one of their fellow classmates.
You should be demanding that guns be removed.
As I said, when I see mass shootings in America, I no longer feel sorrow and pity but instead a sense of 'well, you did this to yourselves.' It's horrible to say that and to feel it, too, because it's sad that loss of life is met with that but honestly, you all cry over the dead children killed in all the school shootings but in the next breath demand someone do something... as long as they don't take your guns. Which would do something.
We lost 30 or so people in a mass shooting and the government took the guns. We've had a small handful of those kinds of incidents since then (1996) and most of them have had one or two deaths and a few wounded. Nothing like the almost-monthly destruction of your children.
Our kids don't have to walk through fucking metal detectors every day at school. Our kids don't learn about rolling into a ball and hiding under their desks in fear or making a sound that draws the attention of one of their fellow classmates.
You should be demanding that guns be removed.
author=Feldschlacht IV
What about other peaceful countries that have guns?
The two you specifically named, Switzerland and Israel, have some form of military service requirement. Switzerland's is mandatory, Israel's is not though heavily encouraged. If you haven't served in Israel you cannot get a gun until you are 27 and then you still have to have a valid reason, go through training before and on an annual basis. So you'd have to bring back the draft in the US to get the same results. Do you think that would also engender a second civil war?
That's not asked facetiously I'm curious if you believe it would be too much of a shift.
Sorry edit, you also named Finland. There are no restrictions on the type of guns (unlike Australia since that's what we are using as our example) but all guns are licensed through the police, so you can't apply for one at a gun store like you can (I believe) in the US. You need both an acquisition licence and then a separate gun license for each gun. Then you need to justify it, and 'self or personal defence' is not a valid reason. Hunters, sports shooters and the like can obtain a gun commensurate with their hobby, but they have to prove use and history. They are also subject to extensive background checks including both criminal and health, and if they break the law in anyway (including something like a speeding fine) they can have their licence cancelled and the gun confiscated.
See, the thing is, the psychology of those countries is very different to America. Americans aren't forced to join the armed forces for x years like some countries. Americans aren't regulated in their gun usage and the kinds of guns they have, unlike some countries. Americans are fed hatred and fear through their news outlets, unlike other countries. The other countries have stricter laws, better teaching of the laws, harsher punishments for breaking the laws and are all taught to respect not only the weapons but each other.
America is NOTHING like those countries and until it is, it should not be allowing it's populace to have guns.
It'd be far easier to get rid of the guns and far safer because, frankly, ya'll are stupid about guns and it shows every time the discussion comes up.
America is NOTHING like those countries and until it is, it should not be allowing it's populace to have guns.
It'd be far easier to get rid of the guns and far safer because, frankly, ya'll are stupid about guns and it shows every time the discussion comes up.
@nhubi Making drafts a thing in the USA not only is a very scary idea for me, but an idea I'm almost certain would spur some people to violence.
I don't know about another civil war but... maybe? I'd like to avoid something like that if I can, both drafts and people being upset by it.
I don't think saying it could cause a positive cultural shift would convince many people it's a good idea either because
1. Conservativism
2. You can't really prove it will. I mean, you can point at other countries and say "evidence" but it's still not proof, and most countries don't share a history like America's. I think we're just too different for that.
I don't know about another civil war but... maybe? I'd like to avoid something like that if I can, both drafts and people being upset by it.
I don't think saying it could cause a positive cultural shift would convince many people it's a good idea either because
1. Conservativism
2. You can't really prove it will. I mean, you can point at other countries and say "evidence" but it's still not proof, and most countries don't share a history like America's. I think we're just too different for that.
author=Liberty
See, the thing is, the psychology of those countries is very different to America. Americans aren't forced to join the armed forces for x years like some countries. Americans aren't regulated in their gun usage and the kinds of guns they have, unlike some countries. Americans are fed hatred and fear through their news outlets, unlike other countries. The other countries have stricter laws, better teaching of the laws, harsher punishments for breaking the laws and are all taught to respect not only the weapons but each other.
America is NOTHING like those countries and until it is, it should not be allowing it's populace to have guns.
It'd be far easier to get rid of the guns and far safer because, frankly, ya'll are stupid about guns and it shows every time the discussion comes up.
The government mandating that everyone turn in their guns nationwide would most definitely spark off massive violence all over the country. Instituting the draft wouldn't be a good idea either (and I'm saying this from a position of already being in the military), and yes, it is wise to note the cultural, educational, and demographic difference between America and countries that have guns also, but don't have gun problems.
I think it's a great idea to work towards the psychology, mindset, and infrastructure of those countries to make them work for us as well, but it's not easy to just 'get rid of guns' in the meantime, and to suggest so is not only ignorant, pigheaded, and emotional, but it shows a fundamental lack of understanding of American culture, which honestly I don't blame you for, you know, being Australian and all.
It's like me claiming I have an objective solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. I've been to the Middle East, but not Israel. I'm not Israeli either. What do I really know about it?
Gourdy, you're in your midteens, right? So you'll still have to register with the Selective Services when you turn 18 in case they want to reinstate conscription. If you're that scared I'd suggest don't go into the medical profession, they are more likely to be called up. In peacetime that is, war is another matter entire.
Thanks for responding though it's a curious concept that people could get violent about not wanting to be put in a position where they would be trained to do violent things (in part at least).
Thanks for responding though it's a curious concept that people could get violent about not wanting to be put in a position where they would be trained to do violent things (in part at least).
@nhubi Eh... I'm just kind of a gooey, ambivalent person. It's different if I know what I'm getting into. Although, I think that may be the general reason why I feel people would be violent over drafting. It's the difference between choosing to do it and having to do it. Especially when it's potentially dangerous.
Not that I know much about this subject.
Not that I know much about this subject.
author=SatedForward or Back?
I have an objective solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.Time machine.
I'm for responsible gun ownership but the culture in the U.S. of fetishizing guns is pretty creepy sometimes.
Yeah, I've got a bit of military training with weapons, and the few times I've been shown guns in the States, it was like this weird pride. Like showing a new RC Car they bought.
Weapons are not toys.
Weapons are not toys.
It's hhhiiiimmmmm again :)
You folks have ruined my day because when I signed on there were 50 notices and all were for "what are you thinking". ^.^ <<<sarcasm Damn, I hate having to type all that crap just so everyone knows I'm not serious :(
POPULATION OF:
340 million U.S.
23 million Australia
63 million England
82 million Germany
143 million Russia
The only one I found with more people was China.
So, I'm not calling anyone names such as stupid, BUT does anyone and that includes me, really know what we are talking about??
No country that you have been talking about contains the number of people of the U.S. Also, no other country has the N.R.A. National Rifle Association which is EXTRMELY powerful in America with a HUGE membership.
No other country has the number of street gangs who have all kinds of weapons including automatic weapons as the U.S.
No other country has organizations with camps in the mountains who train to repell the Federal Government if they try to take away their guns.
No other country has the amount of drug and gun sales going on.
Many of the people are screaming for the government to get out of their private lives, for the government to get smaller, stop invading their privacy.
Many of you agree the U.S. government should stop spying on people.
BUT YOU WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO TAKE AWAY THE GUNS OF THE PEOPLE.
Not sure about V. Putin, but if Russia decides to expand the way Germany did and please don't tell me it,s the fault of America,
I'm not saying America is the better than any of your countries but if we had not entered WWII, most of you would be speaking German today.
When another world war breaks out, and it looks like it's closer than any of us want to imagine, will the world want the U.S. involved when no one any longer knows how to use a gun or defend themselves??
So again, do any of US meaning ALL of us really know what we are talking about or are we just voicing what our minds believe to be the real answer ?? :(
Boy, I can just feel the heatwave coming my way :)
You folks have ruined my day because when I signed on there were 50 notices and all were for "what are you thinking". ^.^ <<<sarcasm Damn, I hate having to type all that crap just so everyone knows I'm not serious :(
POPULATION OF:
340 million U.S.
23 million Australia
63 million England
82 million Germany
143 million Russia
The only one I found with more people was China.
So, I'm not calling anyone names such as stupid, BUT does anyone and that includes me, really know what we are talking about??
No country that you have been talking about contains the number of people of the U.S. Also, no other country has the N.R.A. National Rifle Association which is EXTRMELY powerful in America with a HUGE membership.
No other country has the number of street gangs who have all kinds of weapons including automatic weapons as the U.S.
No other country has organizations with camps in the mountains who train to repell the Federal Government if they try to take away their guns.
No other country has the amount of drug and gun sales going on.
Many of the people are screaming for the government to get out of their private lives, for the government to get smaller, stop invading their privacy.
Many of you agree the U.S. government should stop spying on people.
BUT YOU WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO TAKE AWAY THE GUNS OF THE PEOPLE.
Not sure about V. Putin, but if Russia decides to expand the way Germany did and please don't tell me it,s the fault of America,
I'm not saying America is the better than any of your countries but if we had not entered WWII, most of you would be speaking German today.
When another world war breaks out, and it looks like it's closer than any of us want to imagine, will the world want the U.S. involved when no one any longer knows how to use a gun or defend themselves??
So again, do any of US meaning ALL of us really know what we are talking about or are we just voicing what our minds believe to be the real answer ?? :(
Boy, I can just feel the heatwave coming my way :)
Considering I admit to being relatively naive, I'm not sure if I'm going to be accurate with what I'm about to say, but I do agree with Feld and I'd like to enlight Libby on some aspects of American culture and why taking away guns would be a terrible idea, as an American myself:
To your credit, Liberty, you highlight one issue that I think REALLY needs to be addressed more so than gun control: education.
Our public education system is a joke. Almost every other country eases their students into their career path around high school, and we either don't do it or have half-assed efforts here by comparison. Being taught about law in schools is not a requirement, and even classes on basic life skills like balancing checkbooks are third party or optional. Above all, though, there is too little emphasis on critical thinking. I personally abhor the transition from public schools to colleges because of this. In school, you can get by through just doing the work and memorizing shit (I actually consider any high schooler who struggles in school for reasons other than actual disabilities to be a lazy whiner as a result), yet almost any other higher level of education expects you to actually go beyond what's already there, like a real intellectual is supposed to. I can't say this is a healthy divide at all, and it doesn't help that we are fed junk like celebrity gossip and biased news reports to supplement a largely ignorant populace. Yes, we really don't know how to handle guns with care as we should, but the solution isn't to take them away, it's to actually give a damn about our education system.
- We are EXTREMELY nationalist. More in the sense that we know our constitution/amendments (or at least like to think we do) and will do anything we can to defend them. As far as gun control goes, this specifically goes into the right to bear arms, which was actually intended to be a means for the general public to have access to adequate weaponry should the government reach a level of corruption that no one is in favor for. It was written in direct response to the weapon regulations of the British Monarchy, who could utilize the disproportionate power between the military and citizens to their advantage should anyone tries to rebel against government. Hell, government over-regulation is a growing issue with the USA today, and taking away our guns would just make it worse. Aside from all that, the nationalist part matters in that you'd piss off over half the American population by over-regulating or removing guns.
- Our culture has just historically glorified guns. Simple as that. You see it in the movies, music, posters, almost types of media. The gun isn't portrayed solely as a "death-dealing tool for violence" either, it's highlighted in some military promotional posters as a symbol of empowerment, leadership, and even just cool-looking. It's really on the same level of superfluous glorification as cigarrette smoking was in the past, only there hasn't been enough people calling it out on it. To just say "nope, you're too stupid to have guns, so we're taking them away" is actually like telling a beaver can't build its lodge out of sticks anymore. Yes, it's ridiculous and illogical notion we have, but almost all culture is.
To your credit, Liberty, you highlight one issue that I think REALLY needs to be addressed more so than gun control: education.
Our public education system is a joke. Almost every other country eases their students into their career path around high school, and we either don't do it or have half-assed efforts here by comparison. Being taught about law in schools is not a requirement, and even classes on basic life skills like balancing checkbooks are third party or optional. Above all, though, there is too little emphasis on critical thinking. I personally abhor the transition from public schools to colleges because of this. In school, you can get by through just doing the work and memorizing shit (I actually consider any high schooler who struggles in school for reasons other than actual disabilities to be a lazy whiner as a result), yet almost any other higher level of education expects you to actually go beyond what's already there, like a real intellectual is supposed to. I can't say this is a healthy divide at all, and it doesn't help that we are fed junk like celebrity gossip and biased news reports to supplement a largely ignorant populace. Yes, we really don't know how to handle guns with care as we should, but the solution isn't to take them away, it's to actually give a damn about our education system.
People who avoid the draft are usually non-violent. The problem is that our nation has the tendency to call them cowards. A truth that many Americans aren't willing to face is that our nation was built on conquest. It was built on violence and murder. We see the movies of Cowboys and Indians, and the idea is romanticized to this day. This is a nation built upon war. It's been glamorized in our culture. Our television, our movies, our books, our toys, our music: violence is completely fetishized in this nation. Many fears turn to paranoia. The gun represents power and control. When you see it dreams, it's usually an archetype for the penis.
The problem is, like Ratty said, our government is also a product of this culture, and they have become completely corrupt to the extent that they are not even bothering to hide it. The Supreme Court's approval of Citizens United, its dissolution of the Glass-Steagall Act, its overturning of the Voter Rights Act, its approval of warrantless searches (one can argue that it requires permission, but under the Supreme Court's ruling, anyone in your household can invite the police in, and if you object, you are to be arrested. This means if your five-year-old daughter invites the police in, you're just fucked.). There are people in this nation who believe that we have free speech, but we really don't. When Joseph McCarthy made his famous speech in 1954, Congress passed a series of laws that specifically penalized un-American speech. According to supporters this was an anti-communism act (which communism is a form of speech, anyway), but it came to include any speech that disagreed with and dissented against government policy. Congress used the House on Un-American Activites Committee(HUAC), previously created in 1938 to investigate pro-Nazi fascist groups, and with its new, McCarthyist powers, identified, prosecuted, and imprisoned anyone who it deemed to be engaged in un-American speech. What was the criterion for un-American speech? There was only one: any speech that disagrees with existing U. S. policy.
The HUAC may be gone, but the laws that gave it its powers were never repealed, and are currently used to stifle protests and to label liberal Americans as terrorists. People may believe that with the HUAC gone, Freedom of Speech is restored (and without their influence, those laws certainly aren't being openly enforced), but Edward Snowden's revelations have shown us just how those old laws are being used, collecting evidence against the American people and labeling large numbers of us as terrorists and marking us for secret investigation.
If any of you have ever wondered why there is a such a profound hatred for liberalism in the US, now you know. By the way, liberal acts in the US include the Constitution, the Abolition of Slavery, Public Education, Public Utilities, all of which are under some form of attack by conservatism from one moment to the next.
The problem is, like Ratty said, our government is also a product of this culture, and they have become completely corrupt to the extent that they are not even bothering to hide it. The Supreme Court's approval of Citizens United, its dissolution of the Glass-Steagall Act, its overturning of the Voter Rights Act, its approval of warrantless searches (one can argue that it requires permission, but under the Supreme Court's ruling, anyone in your household can invite the police in, and if you object, you are to be arrested. This means if your five-year-old daughter invites the police in, you're just fucked.). There are people in this nation who believe that we have free speech, but we really don't. When Joseph McCarthy made his famous speech in 1954, Congress passed a series of laws that specifically penalized un-American speech. According to supporters this was an anti-communism act (which communism is a form of speech, anyway), but it came to include any speech that disagreed with and dissented against government policy. Congress used the House on Un-American Activites Committee(HUAC), previously created in 1938 to investigate pro-Nazi fascist groups, and with its new, McCarthyist powers, identified, prosecuted, and imprisoned anyone who it deemed to be engaged in un-American speech. What was the criterion for un-American speech? There was only one: any speech that disagrees with existing U. S. policy.
http://www.gwu.edu/~erpapers/teachinger/glossary/huac.cfm
Through its power to subpoena witness and hold people in contempt of Congress, HUAC often pressured witnesses to surrender names and other information that could lead to the apprehension of Communists and Communist sympathizers. Committee members often branded witnesses as "red" if they refused to comply or hesitated in answering committee questions. In perhaps its most famous investigation, HUAC-member Richard Nixon, after weeks of dramatic hearings, was, at the final hour, able to reveal that Alger Hiss, a former State Department official, had lied to them about having "ever been a Communist." More importantly, however, the questioning style and examination techniques employed by HUAC served as the model upon which Senator Joseph McCarthy would conduct his investigative hearings in the early 1950s. Following Senator McCarthy's censure, however, and his subsequent departure from the Senate, the American public grew increasingly wary of the "redbaiting" techniques employed by HUAC and others. The work of the committee continued to decline in importance throughout the late 1950s and early 1960s until the committee itself was renamed the House Internal Security Committee in 1969, prefiguring its eventual abolition in 1975.
The HUAC may be gone, but the laws that gave it its powers were never repealed, and are currently used to stifle protests and to label liberal Americans as terrorists. People may believe that with the HUAC gone, Freedom of Speech is restored (and without their influence, those laws certainly aren't being openly enforced), but Edward Snowden's revelations have shown us just how those old laws are being used, collecting evidence against the American people and labeling large numbers of us as terrorists and marking us for secret investigation.
If any of you have ever wondered why there is a such a profound hatred for liberalism in the US, now you know. By the way, liberal acts in the US include the Constitution, the Abolition of Slavery, Public Education, Public Utilities, all of which are under some form of attack by conservatism from one moment to the next.
